A few days ago, one of my three faithful readers sent me a note.
I’ve been following your City of Heroes blog for some time, and wanted to pick your brains on the RP SG that I’ve been invited to run on Virtue. The SG in question was once a fairly strong SG with lots of players and a rich RP environment, but attrition in leadership coupled with poor recruiting (and other dramas) has lead to its considerable decline in the last six months. The current status is that the SG is basically dead, but has a ton of prestige and a long history. My goal is to reverse its fortunes in relative short order.
The person (who will remain nameless, since it was sent off-list) then proceeded with the brains-picking.
Now, I’m not sure I’m best qualified on the subject. Yes, I’ve done tabletop RP games, and PBeMSs, and, yes, I’ve both played in and run an RP Supergroup in part of an RP Coalition.
On the other hand, the Consortium of Justice was very intentionally an “RP Lite” group (this should be fun, not work), and, of course, the RP Coalition which I was a leader in managed to blow itself up quite nicely over a series of Unfortunate Dramatic Events. So my quals here are a bit sketchy.
That said, I’m a manager in real life, so I’m either qualified to talk about group management, or else am an expert at sounding like I am. So here’s what was asked and what I wrote, just for the record, and to stir up some conversation. I’ve edited it slightly to untangle some of the email thread.
(Ironically, Doyce was just posting about “guild drama,” whence the amusing graphic below. And I suspect a lot of what I write here applies not just to CoX, but to LotRO, WoW, etc.)
Have you ever run an RP SG? Have you ever been in one? What were the qualities that made it successful?
Though I enjoyed doing RP stuff in CoX, I was (and am) too much of an alt-fiend to get tooooo much into the full-time RP character. My goal was to always speak in character, drop some interesting hints about my character in conversation (and follow up with same when someone chose to pull on the threads), and to have a good time. We were one of the “Light RP” groups in the Coalition.
But in the RP groups and the aspects of the Coalition that worked well, hmmmm …
- Strong leadership.
- Group events/activities (to allow for RPing). A feeling of *community*
- A willingness to have *fun*. It can’t be all drama llamas, as much as some folks will try to make it so.
- Utter ruthlessness at booting folks who tear down the fabric of the community. Being nice and hoping they’ll be nice too usually meant that problems got worse, not better. If it were to be done, ’twere best done quickly. And be open about what happened and why, and note that it’s not open for argument.
- Utter openness and honesty from the leadership. As much as desires for confidentiality and privacy may seem important, nothing can get a group divided against itself than the sense that the Leaders Are Keeping Secrets. Especially if they’re kvetching about the players behind their backs.
- A leadership that sets an example (leads) by being around a lot, and offering to play with other SG members when they get on, esp. new ones. Nothing kills an SG faster than it becoming a clique of leaders who simply invite folks in to build a nice base. A part of that is usually having (at least for the leaders) some lower-level alts to be able to shift to.
- [Added] People come and people go. Don’t get desperate about forcing the former and avoiding at all costs the latter. It will lead to bad decisions. If it’s a good group, people will join, and stay, If you are too eager to bring folks in, or too eager to appease them from leaving, you’re making compromises that will come back to haunt you.
In short, I think a strong RP SG operates about the same as a strong SG in general, except that some extra care needs to be taken to foster that fragile suspension of disbelief that makes the RP stuff work.
Hmmmm, what else? Themes are good. Some of the better RP SGs had a strong theme or story behind them, and one that drove their “events.”
I’d add in [I did not in the original of this] an in-person, in-character interview for RP groups. If the person can’t RP an SG interview, they won’t do a good job later on. And it gives the leadership a chance to see if the RP concept will actually work with the SG.
CoX is an interesting game in that it still has a relatively strong user base, based on the fact that it’s a superhero MMO where none existed previously. Do you think that SG declines are occurring in general, or do you think that there is room for another RP SG in the world?
Hard to say. Certainly overall CoX population is down. Virtue is a good server for this simply because it has a large population. I’ve been invited to some SGs, but the populations have never been such that there were ever many people around. And my own interest has, honestly, faded enough that I don’t feel the need or have the time to be dedicated enough to be a good, contributing SG member. Alas.
That said, I think there’s always a place for a good RP SG in any world worth playing in. đ
I’ve run many organizations before in many games, so the “business” side is familiar to me. The challenge in this one is to run a heavy RP organization and to revive a dormant brand, as it were.
It might be interesting to advance the “story” around the revival of the “brand” for the characters, new and old. In other words, how is it in Paragon City that the Ultra Corps is suddenly being revitalized, or why is Captain Metallo and his cohorts trying to revive the Ultra Corps to its glory days? In other words, it’s not just a change in management, it’s an adventure! (And if there are some multiple layers to the tale — the one for public consumption, and one that only the “leaders” know but about which hints might be dropped to the troops, or newly initiated leaders are let into the know about (“… Statesman is really a Rikti spy, and we’ve re-formed in order to tackle the Freedom Phalanx when they finally turn on humanity?!”)
I’ve been in heavy RP organizations before, so I understand the atmosphere, but this will be the first time I’ll be administering it.
It’s different — and it makes it harder in some ways to maintain RP for yourself (you always have to be sort of monitoring things on a meta level). Best advice is:
1. Find others to share the burden with. Burn-out is the biggest threat.
2. Behave as you’d want a leader in your previous groups to behave.
Thoughts? Anything else I should have mentioned?
I think you hit most of the high points. The Repeat Offenders has a medium RP group in coalition on Virtue (Hi Justice Force!) and they have a great organization:
-Potential new members are required to post an in-character introduction in the JF forums.
-The SG has monthly membership in-character meetings.
-The have regularly scheduled events (TFs, etc.) that draw members out.
-They have in-character writing contests on their forum.
Overall SG management tips are the biggest part of managing any SG. The RP part is simply another restriction to membership.
-Clearly define what you’re looking for. RP is too broad. “Four-Color Heroes who have inherited the mantles of 1940’s era heroes.” Etc., etc.
-I love the idea of making the revival of the SG part of the group’s back story.
-If there will be only 1 leader that leader needs to be on a LOT. That gets into burn out territory quickly. The SG leader needs either co-leaders or Lieutenants that are empowered to deal with innappropriate behavior immediately.
-Set up a Global channel. Make it private to start. Give the LTs moderator status and enforce the rules of conduct evenly.
-While I agree that SG leadership decisions need to be as open as possible, there is a time and a place for ‘behind the scenes’ SG leader discussions. However you have to self moderate and NOT use it as a place to discuss members behind their backs . .. unless the discussion is “What can we do about Player X. He’s very disruptive, but well liked/a good player . . .etc. I’ve seen mentoring programs grow out of discussions like that. But it can lead to drama if SG members even THINK you’re gossiping behind their backs. You must assume that at least on SG leader will share posts from the SG leader forum with a non-leader.
-The best solution to drama makers is to kick them from the SG and the channel. Kick them from the forum and lock or delete any of their drama threads, too. Make the ‘No Drama Llamas’ rule clear and up front.
-Channels allow you to set a Message of the Day: use that space to spell out the biggest rules of the SG.
And if folks aren’t having tons of fun, do something new!
It’s like they say — if you don’t want your Mom to read it, don’t put it in an email / IM / hidden forum post.
One of the hardest problems to deal with is when there is dissension amongst the leadership — that’s when you get those sorts of back-avenue “Hey, did you hear what X said?” sorts of things.
That said, I think there’s value in having one Uber Leader — the one guy with the power to kick any of the other leaders, shut anything down, etc. That person isn’t necessarily the guy who’s doing all the day-to-day grunt-work (avoid burn-out). But when you get multiple leaders with maximum power, sooner or later hurt feelings can lead to a coup (“Hey, what happened to all our stuff?”). Having just one person with the keys to the missile silo — someone who is respected and who won’t make whimsical decisions, obviously — can be of value.
Clear expectations up front trump assumptions and vagueness, and provide ethical high ground if discipline is needed (if someone can fairly state they “didn’t know,” then most leaders, who are trying to be good guys, will let them get away with it. Which sets a precedent, which weakens the next effort). I think a two-strike rule is best — a clear warning when behavior is inappropriate (unless it was a violation of something that should have been clear already), then you’re out.
Now, all that said, expect that, as with any other evaluation of character and character interaction, a lot is going to rely on subjectivity and judgment calls by the leaders. If someone isn’t willing to do that, they shouldn’t lead, and if they aren’t willing to accept that their co-leaders will be making judgment calls, they shouldn’t lead, either.
It’s a largely thankless job, and you’ll hear a lot more curses and wailing and gnashing of teeth and plaintive cries for pity and nasty invection than you’ll ever hear thank-yous and appreciate-its. But it’s still worth it, if it makes for a solid group.
Fisrt off, any time you have two or more folks interacting, you have Drama. That is how the world works if you are human, if you do not want drama, play Sims or a solo FPS. Now, that said, there is good drama and bad drama, and it is the poisoness bad drama that folks focus on as “Drama”.
Having been through more Guild Deaths than I care to think about, Some thoughts:
-Strong Leadership does not mean Tyrannical Leadership, since all this does is cause unwanted office politics (drama). Having dealt with two megalomaniacal guild leaders, who then disappear for long periods of time, this only creates drama, resentment and anger. If you are going to be a Tyrant, you need to be the Benevolent Kind and only step in if things need to be dealt with (rules violations, etc) and not be petty when folks violate unwritten rules when they do something they assume is alright to do.
Last Saturday I witnessed my First Guild Revolt as the two guild leaders have not been playing for a month, and their RL friends have joined them on other MMOâs, but they did not leave anyone else with the ability to recruit, take things out of the guild vault to hand out to folks that could use the items in it, but gave them the all the responsibilities of holding guild meetings. So, the 10 active players all took a vote at the meeting and left to form a new Guild.
-Guild Channel as IC unless (( )): This really helps folks build their RP and their character, and helps foster the sense of Community. Now, this means that you do not have to be and ass if folks talk OCCly in the channel about things going on in RL, and helps folks get along. Strict ICly guild channels only cause problems.
-Having Guild Rules posted somewhere, that are clear and concise and not subject to âAll animals are created equal, except some animals are more equal than othersâ editing.
-Active Leadership: This is a biggie. And this means that most/all of the âLeadersâ alts also need to be in the Leadership Ranks. This helps create the appearance of leadership being âactiveâ as they bounce around on alts.
-Recruiting: Having been in guilds that do full open recruiting (anyone), semi-open recruiting (all but the bottom one or two ranks), and closed recruiting (a few select ranks), I find that Semi-open recruiting works best, kind of like a word of mouth advertisement.
-Regular Guild meetings: This also really helps foster the sense of being part of things, also run it open and take minutes for those that couldnât make itâŚ.just like a RL meeting. Also, since MMOâs are global, you NEED to set floating/rotating Meeting times (Say early EST and then the next one will be Late PST), or not punish those that cannot attend due to their time zones (Yes, I have seen this).
-If your MMO allows it, Mentor/Side Kick with new/lower level MembersâŚand encourage the rest of the leadership to do so. This makes folks feel wanted, and fosters RP by causing interactions with folksâŚ.and the more folks want to log on to enjoy themselves, the more interactions, the more folks want to play and so on.
-Lastly: If you do not want to take Guild Leadership as a new facit of your RL responsibilties, do not become a guild leader. If you just want to log on, play, and not deal with any “Drama”, then do everyone a favour and do not accept any offer to become a guild leader, this will eliminate a lot of drama in your life as well as the rest of the your guild.
Ditto ditto ditto. Good thoughts.
Not to scare folks off, but SG/Guild leadership is *work*. It’s not something you can casually do whenever you feel like it (without shorting the folks in the group).
By the same token, if you’re not having *fun*, you’re not going to be doing it for long, either. Not unless you’re getting paid for it.
Some interesting commentary on Guild/SG “cores”: http://egotisticalpriest.com/2008/08/the-core-continued/ (via Doyce)
Sheesh, I miss the old Alliance coalition in CoH like crazy sometimes. I STILL haven’t unsubscribed even though I haven’t actually logged in for actual play in ages.
I’ve bounced around from MMO to MMO in the couple of years since and have just never found a remotely similar experience to what we had during the good times (though the Dramatis Personae community for WoW is pretty impressive in my mostly lurking outsider’s opinion).
Every couple of months I log in and fly around to listen to my favorite theme music from areas like Atlas Plaza in Atlas Park and Williams Square in Founder’s Falls, but that is about it. Fantastic thread here with wonderful suggestions for would-be guild leaders. I hope you’re all doing great!
Oh and Dave I’m absolutely a faithful reader, just not sure I’ve ever posted a comment before. đ
Why, thanks, Muse, very much. đ
I miss “the Glory Days” of the AoC, too — but not the all-consuming time sink it became, nor the drama-quakes that shook it apart.
Sounds like it time to set up a CoH game day. Pick a server and just have fun. There is some great new content. Hmm – when is the next free weekend?