The 2024e edition is a new set of rules. WotC doesn’t want you to believe that.
Or whatever it’s being called this week
WotC has been insistent, insistent I say, that the new edition of D&D is not, in fact, a new edition. This is not D&D 6e! This is not even D&D 5.5e! This is …
Well, they call it 2024e, because that is not at all confusing with what 5e is being called now (2014e).
But, of course if it were not a new edition, why would we need to refer to it differently?
Or, to look at it another way, why not just call it D&D with new optional rules like have shown up in things like Tasha’s, etc.?
Because then they wouldn’t sell new books, amirite?
But we’re not to call it a new edition. It is simply rule changes that are completely compatible with the older, um, previous, er, differently-numbered-year edition not-an-edition set of numbers.
A Caveat
Note: the changes in rules from 2014e / 5e to 2024e are not necessarily bad. In fact, a lot of them sound kind of interesting. But are they backwards-compatible? Do they not imbalance encounters and conflicts in earlier modules? Will players in a given campaign be able to change to 2024e without making any difference? Will 5e characters be as good against new 2024e campaigns? If some players want to switch but others do not, will that work well? Will various Virtual Tabletops handle mixed parties and/or modules?
Two examples that got a fair amount of play in my reading today:
Surprise in 2024e
In 5e / 2014e, when a group or individuals are Surprised, they roll Initiative as normal, but are unable to take any Actions or Reactions or movement through their first turn, after which they can only React until their next turn.
So that’s pretty harsh. Surprised foes (or friends) are at a serious deficit here. In an Action Economy,
That’s a much simpler mechanic, but it’s also a lot easier mechanic. Rather than missing out on an entire turn, you just tend to come late in a turn.
Either alternative is arguable. But are they the same? Can you have a mix of players choosing a different version, for themselves or their opponents? Can you seamlessly change the rule to match previous challenges? Does it just become another option? Is it a significant enough change to actually alter how an encounter ends?
Inspiration in 2024e
Inspiration is an optional rule in 5e / 2014e. The DM (with input from the players) can give someone up to 1 point of Inspiration. That Inspiration can be turned in (in advance) for Advantage on an attack roll, saving throw, or ability check.
Okay, pretty straightforward. A D20 roll can be rolled with Advantage.
A key here, from the designers, was the sense that too much adds Advantage. That’s kind of ironic, as Advantage was intended as a way of simplifying the endless plusses/minuses of 3e, 3.5e, and 4e. But there was here a sense that too much was being simplified and rolled into a trinary Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic.
In addition to that rather significant change, there are now a variety of mechanical ways to gain “Heroic Inspiration,” including a Fighter subclass that just basically gets their point refreshed every turn.
It’s an interesting design choice, and I can see a lot behind it. It can make for more ways to leverage Inspiration (through broader dice rolls, and also by taking out of the unstackable Advantage bucket). It also makes, through its expanded Inspiration, a more reliable way of getting it.
On the other hand, it introduces Yet Another Mechanic. And it weakens that RP focus of the current Inspiration mechanic.
Good? Bad? I can see arguments either way. But it’s a very distinct choice, and something a table will need to decide One Way or The Other. Unlike the Surprise mechanic, I don’t think it changes balance — but does that make it Backwards Compatible?
Just call it a new edition, fergoshsakes
People who have bought 5e, will have three choices.
Change to 2024e, either mid-campaign, or next time there’s a module change (and upgrade any 5e-era modules to use the new rules).
Stick with 5e, and hope they can “backwards compatible” the mechanics of 2024e-era modules into those rules.
Mix and match — in existing campaigns or in new ones, evaluate the 2024e rules that have changed and depending which ones to pull in and which to continue using (and where players can select different conclusions).
Option 1 is pretty standard for a new actual edition. Option 2 might be possible with an actual edition change, but it would be a bit of work. Option 3 only is possible if that “backwards compatible” notion is real.
These sneak peaks (the first 2024e volume only comes out in September) make me think that WotC has tried to come up with something better enough and different enough to justify getting a new set of books (or virtual add-ins to the VTT … or both!) while pretending that it’s just a set of optional improvements.
I resent that.
I will almost certainly get the new edition of books and rules and use them in the future. I will remain resentful that WotC has been playing games with the whole thing to make money and pretend like they aren’t.
There will be SPOILERS. If you are playing in a PotA game, please don’t read this. But if you are DMing a PotA game, or are a DM who wants to see what the ride was like … read on!
GM Recap
Session 45 (Day 38-29)
In … Red Larch!
William wandered under the new moon as a Giant Badger. He had something to remember on the tip of his tongue, but couldn’t think of it.
Faith dreams of the young woman she’s welcomed to her hut. Nala has a dream of conversing with Aldrik at a bar. Moony has a dream of speaking with a mysterious, grizzled old Tabaxi who asked him questions about hunting and prey.
Pursuing Bruldenthar‘s mysterious Sending, the Theren and Faith sought out Endrith Vallivoe to enquire about what the “Dearest Treasure of the Dwarves,” which Endrith thought might be the Crown of the Silver Keep. William, on the other hand, speculated it might have been the Vale of Dancing Waters, which Bruldenthar was previously known to be searching for.
The Shopkeeper sent a half-elf urchin, Vetch, to bring Theren to him. The whole party went. The Shopkeeper spoke to him of powers, spells, and specialization, then offered, as some sort of odd “experiment,” to sell him a Ring of Fire Resistance for half its value (Theren bargained him down further). (This item still needs to be Attuned.)
The party traveled toward Feathergale Spire to return to where they’d last been. Along the way, they were struck by a powerful earthquake, which seemed to have a localized effect. While passing the Spire, William left a funerary offering to the dead, hoping that Haeleeya Hanadroum would see it and treat it as an apology for Savra’s death.
Upon reaching the Temple of Howling Hatred, and lengthy consideration of their next path, they chose to enter the “Gates]” area of Tyar-Besil. After dispatching the returned Nothic in the room of the Gargoyle Fountain, they scouted their way forward.
Black Earth token
Just within the next zone, they discovered the passage was apparently guarded by a large, chained, sleeping bulette. After lengthy debate about what to do, they attacked it from down the corridor, doing it substantial damage before it could even get to its feet. It did managed to take a huge bite out of Faith, before falling, crying out in its pain. At which point, other voices of bulettes echoed from deeper in the chamber
Player Recap
Landshark
William heads out to enjoy the new moon on the knoll West of the inn. There is a thread of a memory I had previously. There is an old man escorted by a worker and someone else. He is complaining that everyone has forgotten him.
Dreams:
Faith dreams of taking in a man in need
Nala is in the Glaive ‘n’ Goblin in Waterdeep along the gateway. She is drinking with Aldrick. To keys that open doors and to keys that close them.
Moony dreams of an old Tabaxi
Theren and Faith go to Vallivoe’s to see if he knows anything about “The Dwarves’ Greatest Treasure” Endrith mentions several possibilities but lands on the Crown of the Silver Keep. Eventually he sells Theren a book on the subject. When they leave, a half-elf street urchin, Vetch, gets their attention and says that the “Shopkeeper” has something for his dilemma.
Theren decides to stop by the inn first to collect the rest of the party. When he enters the shop he is greeted by the Shopkeeper. Theren wants to get to the point, but the Shopkeeper insists on that Theren owes him a story and request that he tell of the tower of smoke and fire. Theren gives him a bare bones description of the events leading to destruction of tower.
The shopkeeper offers Theren a Ring of Fire Resistance. He makes it clear that it is only available to Theren. The price is 3,000 gold, but he is talked down to 2,000 gold. The shopkeeper is amused and indicates that the decisions that Theren makes is worth the added expense for the experiment.
Theren asks Moony to check around back. There is a back door to a yard, which is well traveled.
About an hour out of town, Nala notices that the woods are silent. Suddenly, the earth moves violently. A huge fissure appears near them. The magic users decide that it must be a spell since it is so limited in focus. The rest of the travel to the entrance is uneventful.
William takes a short detour to leave 100gp inside the Feathergale Spire with a simple note that says “For the deceased”
The rest of the travel to Tyar-Besil and to the Temple of Howling Hatred is uneventful. As the enter the area of the temple, they hear loud piercing sounds of women screaming or birds crying. Williams shouts “We mean you no harm if you do not attack.” The cries stop.
Moony wins the flip and the group moves to the northeast corner of the air temple. Moony gets to the entrance of the earth temple. Moony is near the entrance and he says “They’re back.” A nothic attacks Nala and it is hit by a telekinetic reprisal. The nothic is running for the door that the group used to entered the gargoyle plaza. Moony retaliates with a short-bow attack. William and Theren finish it off. They poke at the remains and see that it is inherently magic and totally wrong.
Resuming the path to the earth temple. Moony listens and checks for traps. He see a landshark chained to a pillar. After some debate William does an augury spell that strongly suggests that releasing the bulette and trying to scare it further into the temple would not be a good idea (Thank You, Faith!) Instead the group clusters in the hall and begins attacking the monster. A lot of damage is done by the party before it is able to get to its feet and charge the party. Faith is the only person within reach of the creature. He takes a chunk out of her and then dies as the acid from the Vitriolic Sphere eats through his hide.
Game Notes
Filling out the Red Larch dance card
I’d gotten through most of my Red Larch stuff the previous session, but there were still a few items to hit.
Some days, the dice just do not work for anyone.
First, I really wanted William to remember seeing folk taking bodies out for burial the end of their first visit. But at least two Investigation rolls later, nothing doing. Ah, well. Not critical.
Second, I really wanted someone to read Bruldenthar’s scroll, to see if that would noodge them toward the Vale of Dancing Waters, since I had gone to the effort of making an enhancement pass on the side quest. So I was both kind of excited and a bit daunted when the Theren decided to inquire of Eldrith about what the dearest treasure of the dwarves was.
Insert quick GM improvising about a lengthy legend of a dwarvish warrior and the quest for the Crown of the Silver Keep, and selling an old book to Theren. (I created a Roll20 Journal Entry for it after the fact.)
That one of the players then picked up on the Vale was kind of cool. Alas, the consensus was “Go back to Feathergale Spire.” Ah, well.
The Mysterious Shopkeeper
Third, I had a few more prods to a couple of characters, esp. Theren (whose patron god, unknown to him, was sitting there as the Shopkeeper) and Faith (who was always good for a provocation). I didn’t expect the whole party to attend, and so I focused just on Theren, and offered him at ruinous prices a Fire Prot ring. The question was, would he carry it himself, as a protection, or give it to someone like Nala, who stands on the front lines and could be hit by one of his Fireballs?
(Answer: he wore it himself.)
Dreams!
Plenty of dreams that overnight. Faith‘s was to try to lull her (or have her realized she’s being lulled) by Windvane. Nala was to let Aldrik (or his spirit) drop some clues that might help them (I wasn’t happy by how that one turned out).
Moony‘s was fun because most of the ones I had crafted for him were “the hunter hunted” type and I wanted something different. So, with the idea that Denier, Faith’s god, is getting shut out from her dreams by the presence of Windvane, I had him manifest as a Tabaxi to talk with Moony. I’ll do that a few times and see what Faith’s reaction is. (The party members tend to discuss their dreams, so I’m not treating them as secrets.)
Two more notes from the dreams. First, I realized at this point I’d done so many that having a single Roll20 journal entry for them was getting unwieldy. So I broke them into separate ones, though public.
Second, Aldrik. My expectation had been my son coming back from college and picking the character (who was currently chained by the altar in the Fane) again. And then (and this is a Good Thing), he got a post-graduate field job on the other side of the country. So on the one hand, yay! On the other hand, awww!
I had no idea at this point if he’d pick up playing remotely (huzzah for Roll20!). If he did, I might need to scramble, because the party would NOT be at that point by then.
The Sidekick
Vetch, we hardly knew ye
I actually added to the populace of Red Larch by adding a half-elf urchin (stowaway on a caravan from Waterdeep) named Vetch. Insert street urchin tropes here. She was working for the Shopkeeper, and it was fun to play her.
I had a stray thought that he would be sending her to follow the party and keep track of them (as a god, he wanted to monitor what’s happening, but the magical interference of the approaching Princes was blinding, even the gods, just as the oracle who first assigned this quest to them to this was blinded).
I would need to do some further thinking on the matter, as there were plenty of opportunities to be saddled with civilians in this campaign. On the other hand, the idea of somehow maneuvering it so that Theren ended up with a half-elven ward was utterly delicious.
(And I could use the Sidekick rules to create an easy NPC. Hmmmmm.)
EVENTUAL UPDATE: Conceptually, Vetch was a lot of fun. But things were complicated enough already for me and the players, so I dropped the whole idea.
The Slow Road Back to the Action
I skipped over all other random encounters, with the idea of getting them to the action as soon as I could. William delayed things by his touching leaving of a purse of gold coins for Haeleeya, as perhaps the final denouement of the Savra story.
But that was nothing compared to the party arriving, under the mountains, at the entrance to the Temple of Howling Hatred … and trying to decide what to do. Head up to the (presumed) Fire Temple at the “Forges”? Head across two zones to the (presumed) Earth Temple at the “Gates”? Take one of the three or four gates downward that they’d found?
Decision-making by committee
I love my friends (including the dearest friend who’s my wife), but one flaw they all have (which is usually a virtue) is that none of them are pushy, or want to be seen as pushy. So all of them might have an idea, and they might even present the idea, but then they would almost invariably say, “But, hey, that’s just my idea, no obligation to do it, what does everyone else think?”
Lather, rinse, repeat.
I’m more bored than this cat
So a half hour later, I finally asked the Tabaxi, “So, which path seems the least boring to you?” I’m not sure he legitimately gave an honest answer to that, but he urged the path from the Water Temple toward the (presumed) Earth Temple, and so they did it.
While it slightly slowed things down, I felt obliged to have the Nothic who escaped the party earlier from the Gargoyle Fountain room to have crept back in the couple of days they were gone. Brief combat and defeat, marred only by the player who’s dug up the Thieves Guild Guide to Breaking Down Monsters for Parts You Can sell going through all the things you can sell Nothic parts for …
Sigh.
Meta Mapping Issues and Roll20
I don’t know who adapts the WotC modules for Roll20 — a WotC crew or a Roll20 crew – but I would like to have words.
First, as noted earlier, it would be really nice to have it confirmed that the passages from one Temple zone to the next are really only about the length that actually shows on the maps (combined). (That’s actually a WotC PotA problem.)
Second, it would be even nicer if those bridging passages were not cut off on each map, wasting a good ten feet of corridor, esp. since the far end of those corridors is often dangerous and problem-laden. In this particular case, a fitfully sleeping bulette.
Bulette
There was no way to fit a party of five into the corridor space allotted without their being in view of the bulette.
Of course, I could simply plop characters down into the interstitial space between the edge of the drawn map and the edge of the physical map. But, alas, there’s not only no corridor drawn there, but there’s a light/movement barrier there. So if I put any characters back there, they not only cannot move up the corridor into combat, but they get a delightful “behind the scenes” look at the inside of the walls.
(Rolls eyes.)
I eventually figured out how to add some extra space onto the map to stage characters pre-bulette
And I can’t easily break that light barrier because whoever does the (not always very good) job of drawing the barriers on the light layer in Roll20 does like a quarter of the dungeon at a time. So I can (a) suffer, or (b) redraw a quarter of the dungeon. (Which is a huge PitA, though my redrawing is usually better than the original.)
UPDATE: I eventually discovered the Roll20 PathSplitter API script (yay for Roll20 Pro), which let me relatively painlessly break that extended path of walls and create a reasonable staging ground for the players. So, again, yay.
Extended problem-solving
I’ve mentioned how much I love my friends, none of whom would ever dream of taking command seeming pushy. So I also loved how it took them half an hour to devise a way of dealing with the bulette. Or not.
Bulette
In the end, four things happened:
They managed to surprise the sleeping bulette, which meant they’d taken it down substantial HP before it started after them. (In retrospect, I should have been rolling against their endless planning to see if it woke up on its own.)
They learned where the chain binding the bulette to the pillar extended to, which meant most of them were safe …
… Except Faith, who learned how godawful many HP a bulette could do with a chomp.
And, at the very end, as they congratulated themselves on killing the bulette (except the one player who noticed it was labeled “Bulette 1“), they got to hear the roaring howls of the other bulettes in the hall, who were now awake, enraged, and ready to start working on their chains.
Bits and Bobs
I realized I’d been forgetting about the weather lately (as the party was underground). Today’s roll on the Weather Table, to make up for that, was an Earthquake (the characters are at higher levels, therefore the “weather” was getting worse).
Even though it was pretty late in my campaign, the cleric’s acquisition of Heroes’ Feast prompted a bit more research on my part about spell components, particularly consumable ones.
I’ve never been a huge fan of spell components because they are, in normal usage, a Pain in the Ass. Like Encumbrance rules, they are only of play value in edge cases. So using Holy Symbols and Arcane Foci and Component Pouches are a useful way around that.
Usually.
Components
There are three basic aspects of spell components.
Verbal (V)
Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren’t the source of the spell’s power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can’t cast a spell with a verbal component. (PHB)
Practically speaking, Verbal components only come into play in circumstances when something interferes — Silence spells, casting underwater, gags, etc. The rest of the time, we ignore them.
Somatic (S)
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures. (PHB)
Again, we only worry about this for cases where something is getting into the way of that “free hand” thing — being bound or restrained, paralysis, etc. I’m sure there are gaming tables where a sword-and-shield wielding Cleric would have difficulties, but mine is not one of them.
Material (M)
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell’s material components — or to hold a spellcasting focus — but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components. (PHB 203, emphasis mine)
Does a spell consume its material components? A spell doesn’t consume its material components unless its description says it does. For example, the pearl required by the Identify spell isn’t consumed, whereas the diamond required by Raise Dead is used up when you cast the spell.
If a spell’s material components are consumed, can a spellcasting focus still be used in place of the consumed component? No. A spellcasting focus can be used in place of a material component only if that component has no cost noted in the spell’s description and if that component isn’t consumed.
Keeping Focus
So here’s the rub. Spell foci / arcane foci do a lot of cool things — no need to collect components — but they do not substitute for priced consumables. There is no gold coin slot in the side of your holy symbol to consume the cost of such spells. The actual component is needed.
Focuses are spelled out here. Note that I tend not to worry about the holy symbol, etc., being something actually manipulated. Rule of Cool fantasy means that the glowing holy symbol engraved on your shield is just fine (as long as a Rust Monster doesn’t consume your shield). But consumables are the edge case.
Consumables
And, in particular, they are the edge case because they restrict “free” use of very powerful and potentially unbalancing spells. Heroes Feast is an example — its effect can be profound and, as such, is not designed for casual, everyday use. “Every day is a Heroes’ Feast day” is not a common D&D trope, for just that reason. Every cleric at 11 has a holy symbol focus, and thus without a consumable restriction, Heroes’ Feasts would (with sufficient treasure) be a daily thing for every hero. It’s not.
Here is a fun database someone worked up of expensive components and when they are consumed. Interestingly enough, while there are a number of spells so identified, most of them use individual items — a diamond, e.g., for Raise Dead.
Note that, again, magic doesn’t let you use 500gp instead of a 500gp diamond. And Heroes’ Feast is special in having a “Gem-encrusted specially crafted bowl” worth 1000gp; you can’t just substitute 1000gp of miscellaneous booty.
A gem-encrusted bowl, for example
(Btw, this also explains why, except in powerful bad guy or rich heroic dude lairs, you don’t find Continual Flame on everything — it literally costs a consumed 50gp ruby.)
But that’s no fun!
It does make a few things more fiddly, which, to my mind, is, I agree, not fun. But the spells we are talking about are — well, if not game-breakers, then close to it. Heroes’ Feast is an incredible spell, as I think everyone admits. Its recipients get for the day (aside from “this complete breakfast”):
Cured of all diseases
Cured of all poisoning
Immunity to poison
Immunity to fear
Advantage on all WISdom saves
+2d10 HP and HP Max
On reflection, that simply can’t be party SOP; it’s effectively a level-up, and could be literally dungeon-breaking (“Module 12: The Tomb of the Venomous Lords of Terror!”). Grinding 1000gp a day for that seems a significant expense, but, at at the level the spell is available, still relatively trivial. The cost (aside from burning your daily 6th Level spell) needs to include a resource restriction.
In fact, it’s more than just “a 1000gp gem-encrusted bowl” which, presumably, one might find in a dungeon stash of royal crockery: the spell notes it must be specially crafted for the purpose of this spell.
I might allow someone in the party with the proper jewelry crafting skills to actually create such a bowl from suitable materials (and, no, the average character can’t just glue some gems to a bowl and call it good).
Alternately, in the proper setting, I can imagine such a crafted item being found in a dungeon or ruined castle. King Flamebeard would, when riding with his knights against their foes, partake of a special magical breakfast meal to guard them from harm … and if you search around real carefully, you might find the hidden crockery cupboard where a Heroes Feast-intended bowl or two were stashed away …
The range and need of line-of-sight is pretty clear when spells are initially cast, but what happens if range is exceeded or line of sight is broken in a spell that lasts more than an instantaneous effect — in particular, with spells that require Concentration to maintain them?
(In the case that came up in my campaign, the party wanted to maintain a spell as they fled; a more common instance is the affected party fleeing the caster and breaking LoS or exceeding distance.)\
The General Rule
It’s pretty straightforward: range and line-of-sightdon’t matter once the spell has been cast. As PHB 203 puts it:
Once a spell is cast, its effects aren’t limited by its range, unless the spell’s description says otherwise.
So, as a general rule (and as confirmed by Jeremy Crawford and also confirmed by Jeremy Crawford), once you have successfully cast a spell on a spot or a target opponent, it will continue until it naturally ends (i.e., with a Concentration spell, until the time limit is passed or the character drops concentration), regardless of what the range or line-of-sight is. You are maintaining the spell, not the targeting.
Spells that say otherwise, of course, are otherwise (the specific overrides the general).
That said, if you and the target are beyond LoS, you don’t know what is going on there. Maybe the guy you threw Heat Metal on ran into the next room, took off the armor, and put it on an orphan waif, and your continuing the damage is killing an innocent. Ah, well …
There will be SPOILERS. If you are playing in a PotA game, please don’t read this. But if you are DMing a PotA game, or are a DM who wants to see what the ride was like … read on!
GM Recap
Session 43 (Day 37-38)
In … The Temple of the Crushing Wave
Faced with a Bag of Holding starting to approach capacity, plus the prospect of spending some of their hard-earned loot, the party left the underground city of Tyar-Besil, back to Feathergale Spire, and thence to Red Larch, returning to the town three days (!) after they’d left it.
They found the town that night in something of a panic. A traveling merchant had just arrived from the southeast; immediately after his departure from Womford, there had been a brilliant flash of light and, when he turned, the town was devastated in flames.
Faith brought Bruldenthar‘s books to the All-Faiths Shrine, which was doing good business because of the town’s alarm. Brother Sand offered to watch over them, though he was short-handed as the second rotational priest had not yet arrived. Faith offered to stay at the shrine and lend a hand.
After enjoying good food and good beds (plus a few odd dreams), the party awoke to find the town seemingly under attack by a large group of Black Earth cultists — a priest, guards, and several monks. They were doing something with an odd mystical orb, which was rendered inert by Faith’s Dispel Magic. A big melee ensued, leaving the party wounded and tired, but the Black Earth cultists all dead, their plan, which seemed to be some sort of threat to Red Larch, averted. For now.
Player Recap
Emptying the Bag of Holding
The group heads to town to empty their bag and lighten their load. They each have 2921 gold and 7 silver (Aldrik 2458 gold and 3 silver). When they arrive at the Swinging Sword Kaylessa greets them and tells them about the destruction of Womford.
They ask for rooms and drop off their backpacks, Faith and Nala head to the All-faiths Shrine to drop off Bruldenthar’s books. There are several town’s folks praying. Brother Sand greets them. Faith explains that they have found the books that Bruldenthar brought with the Mirabar Delegation. Brother Sand explains that everything is higgledy piggledy . Right now there is only one of me. The other priest hasn’t rotated in. The second priest was coming down from Triboar to replace. Faith asks if Brother Sand can store the books and offers to stay and help caring for the flock. People continue to arrive until much later than expected. That night she has a vague dream about alarms being raised.
William, Moony and Theren head to the room and clean up. William takes a bath, Moony heads to the Helm to relax and tell tales of turtle dragons. Mr. Kitty does not make an impression when competing against the merchant from Womford. He tells the tale of leaving Womford early in the morning as a religious celebration was starting. There was a bright flash, looked back, and sees the town on fire. When Moony gets a chance Moony describes Imyx and asks him if it looked similar. He says that it didn’t look like there was a figure of fire, but there was so much fire, he did not see a face in the fire.
Theren, Nala, and William head to the Helm for dinner. Garlen treats them to dinner for their past help with Justran. The merchant from Womford leaves a bit later and Moony follows to confirm that he safely entered the Swinging Sword without anyone following.
After finishing dinner the group heads back to the Sword. Falling into their beds, the groups sleep well, except Theren. He dreams of a town in flames full of people dying that he can not help. William wakes up in the middle of the night and has an urge of going outside. He feels much better when he returns to the room. Later he dreams of the stars and being outside. He is at peace. He sees a large person carrying a third person. It is an old man who lifts his head and says “Everyone has forgotten me.”
In the morning, Faith wakes early as usual. The quarters are better than those in Tyar-Besil, but still not great. She plans for a targeted donation for improving the quarters. The rest of the party is also up when they hear, “Hey, what are you doing” followed by the sounds of an odd chant. Racing out of the temple and inn, the party sees an Earth priest with several guards and monks at the end of the road. He is chanting and holding a glowing orb. Faith casts a silence spell on the cultists trying to interrupt the spell casting. Theren adds a fireball to the chaos and the fight gets hot. A dispel magic from Faith stops the eerie glow and humming from the orb. The rest is mostly clean-up.
Game Notes
At the Cross-Roads
As previously noted, I tend to make up cute titles for episodes, based on where I figured they would next go, or perhaps who they would next meet. No spoilers, but something that, if I did my job right, would lead to an “OOOOOH, now I see it …” reaction afterwards.
But for an episode where the party could go any direction they wanted, all I could do was lampshade the ambiguity.
Well, the session was more cross-roady than I was expecting, in a couple of ways.
As also previously noted, there were always three ways for the party to be moving: laterally (to other Temples in the main level of Tyar-Besil), down (to the Fane or to the actual Nodes, which would be a serious level challenge), or out.
I was ready for the first two. For some reason, I was not ready for the last..
I should have been. And, to be sure, I wasn’t totally unprepared. The game talks about what’s going on with Cult Retribution in the outside worlds as the Temples start falling. But as that’s a pretty dynamic thing, I only kept matters sketched out in my head. Plus “out” could mean anywhere, to any destination. I figured I’d have plenty of warning.
“Plenty of warning” ≠
“Okay, it’s the start of the episode,
let’s go check in on the outside world.”
And the fact is, it was something I had been urging, wanting, dropping hints about. Dreams of disaster. Etc. Coming across Bruldenthar’s books, which took up over half the weight of the Bag of Holding was just icing on the cake.
These require a Book Bag of Holding, of course
(Calculation: Weight and dimensions of “nearly 50 old tomes” vs the Bag of Holding. Each book is 0.5 cubic feet, and 6 lbs. (based on my wife’s Italia Cucina tome). So 48 books = 12 cubic feet and 288 lbs. A BoH can hold 64 cubic feet, and 250 lbs.)
So the party decided they were going to return to Red Larch, drop off the books, spend some of their newfound wealth at Ye Olde Magick Shoppe, and generally take a bit of a breather.
Great.
Sic transit Womford
It was a quick decision to make it that word of the destruction of Womford had occurred. Which, on later examination, I realized I had over-estimated in terms of destruction. The Fire-based Orb of Devastation (not Orb of Annihilation, which I kept calling it in my head) only unleashes … a horrible heat wave, which a high chance of fires breaking out. It doesn’t act as a tactical nuke.
Not actually Womford
Oops. I’d already foreshadowed that kind of blast in people’s dreams. Oh, well. And, heck, it wasn’t like I was using Womford any more.
The party had brushed against Womford previously. They almost took their stolen boat from Rivergard Keep down there. They knew that the genasi pirate Shoalar Quanderil operated from there. And they knew that Bruldenthar the dwarvish librarian had headed down there from Summit Hall a few tendays back, with plans to head further down to Waterdeep to tell about his lost books. One of which had shown up in Red Larch last time the party was there.
So it seemed like a fine place to destroy — one they hadn’t touched yet, but one they knew about.
Who’s next?
Red Larch was the obvious next target. Having been cued about the disaster in Womford, the second Cult Retaliation would hit at the place (and people) they knew so well.
Target: Red Larch!
Womford had been hit by the Fire Cult. That was both a “Hey, the Apocalypse is coming, boo-yah” moment, but also an underhanded strike at the Water Cult, which was had been using Womford (along with Rivergard Keep) as a place of strength. A lot of chit-chat amongst NPCs in the Water Temple centered around that.
The Black Earth, on the other hand, the next out the Devastation Chute, went for Red Larch — to strike back against the adventurers who were causing grief to the overall cause, and because the town had already been attacked, through influence, by the Earth cult (remember Larrakh and the Believers), and the effort had failed.
“Join me … or die!” “Wait, what?”
This association will get played up next time, I hope.
The other obvious locales for further Devastation shenanigans are Beliard to the NE (a place the party has also been to), and Westbridge to the NW. We’ll see how that goes.
Haste Makes Wasteland
DMs have to make quick decisions, and I was making far too many for my comfort or efficiency. As soon as they said they were going to Red Larch, I knew I was going to have the Black Earth folk show up there, probably the next morning. That’s sort of hand-wavingly fast from the conquest of the previous temple, but the BBEGs work in mysterious ways, their plot elements to perform.
But … I didn’t have a detailed tactical map of downtown Red Larch (note: you can find these online, but I didn’t at the time). And none of the maps I had loaded in my Roll20 instance were a good match, given that they knew the town layout (so a generic town intersection didn’t seem like the right idea to me).
I ended up finding a basic crossroads map, then drew some buildings, and then realized people could see through the walls, so tried to add light barriers mid-battle and …
Ugh.
The melee, though, had a key moment where I think I made a RAW error.
Faith, the Cleric, saw the BE Priest holding up the Devastation Orb and decided to cast a Dispel Magic to break whatever spell was being ritually cast.
Hrm. I never thought of that.
I never created a Devastation Orb of Earth token, but I did whip up a Devastation Orb of Fire …
So the Devastation Orb is not being cast/invoked by the BE Priest. It’s something created down in the Black Geode Node (where Marlos Urnrayle is currently hanging out). But … it’s got a limited duration (1d100 hours or something), so it’s not like a permanent enchantment on an item.
Can Dispel Magic dispel an Orb?
Well … probably not. You could probably use it, or Counterspell, to interrupt the casting (which is done by one of the Prophet Weapons). The Orb itself, though, is a “Wondrous Item,” and you can’t dispel items. Or so I determined after the fact.
I did say (erroneously, but raising daunting stakes), “Okay, this is a 9th Level spell” … and the Cleric did roll high enough to make it happen. I still wasn’t convinced it was correct, but decided the “Rule of Cool” meant that she succeeded. Which, given the player’s reaction made it worthwhile.
See! It’s helpful carrying a bit of an Elemental Prince of Evil! Amirite?
And, after the fact, I realized that she was also carrying / attuned Windvane — the Prophet Weapon of Air, which can, in fact, create Orbs of Devastation itself. And, so, might have made it possible for her to dispel the same, especially against the “opposite” element. (No, not by the rules, but call it a one-off exciting success.)
Dreams
Faith had a woman’s voice (Windvane, in fact) warning her that the city (Waterdeep, in the dream; Red Larch, in reality) was about to be destroyed.
Theren had a dream that he was being used for the nuking of Womford. Disquieting.
William had a dream about the killing and burial of Baragustas, here in town so long back (episode 7, in fact).
Careless Whispers
No, not these whispers.
Yeah, whispers have been a thing. As in hidden chats in Roll20.
Two sessions previously, I had been typing out a few whispered messages from Windvane to Faith. I can type reasonably fast, but in the middle of juggling everything else, it was just kind of awkward.
For this session, I had created a character sheet so that I could whisper as “Windvane”to Faith. Which I forced myself do to more of, but sometimes forgot to turn back to my DM identity, which meant that sometimes DM public rolls were attributed to “Whisper.” Sigh.
After the session, I created a Roll20 macro that would make it much more straightforward (and one-off for labeling)
/w Faith &{template:default} {{name= A soft whisper in your mind ... }} {{ ?{What message?} }}
These whispers …
This worked great, and I used it for the rest of the campaign (with variants as other Prophet Weapons got picked up.)
Still, even with what I was doing this time, I had an emotional beat success, as Faith’s player called out out in alarm, semi-out-of-character to the others, that Windvane had whispered something really disturbing to her after the defeat of the cultists …
We know how to do that. We know how to create such an orb! We will strike terror across the world, to the glory of Yan-C-Bin!
Our Tempest Cleric had the Wrath of the Storm class ability (strictly speaking, not a spell), and endlessly enjoyed using it. Even when she took a bigger smack than her attacker did in turn, she just enjoyed the free combat.
Also at 1st level, you can thunderously rebuke attackers. When a creature within 5 feet of you that you can see hits you with an Attack, you can use your Reaction to cause the creature to make a DEXterity Saving Throw. The creature takes 2d8 lightning or thunder damage (your choice) on a failed Saving Throw, and half as much damage on a successful one.
So in one game, a Smoke Mephit did its ash breath on the cleric from from the adjoining square. This isn’t a To-Hit roll Attack, but an AoE Affect. Should it trigger Wrath of the Storm?
The answer seems to be NO. Because the AoE weapon isn’t, strictly speaking, hitting with an Attack. The key here is “hits you with an Attack.” And the PHB (p. 194) is clear what that all means:
When you make an attack, your attack roll determines whether the attack hits or misses. To make an attack roll, roll a d20 and add the appropriate modifiers. If the total of the roll plus modifiers equals or exceeds the target’s Armor Class (AC), the attack hits. The AC of a character is determined at character creation, whereas the AC of a monster is in its stat block.
Attacks are made with a d20 roll against a target’s AC. But that’s not what happens with the Smoke Mephit’s breath, or a Dragon’s breath weapon, etc. Those:
are not targeted at someone
don’t require an attack roll
aren’t defended by AC
Instead, AoE attacks create a condition in a certain area of squares, and if someone is in that area, they automatically have to make a Saving Throw to determine the severity of the conditions that ensue (which may or may not include damage; the smoke mephit’s ashy breath caused blindness).
(This is part and parcel of why an AoE attack from an adjoining square doesn’t trigger any Disadvantage, either — because there’s no attack roll to Disadvantage.)
If there’s no attack roll (and, of course, a hit caused by a successful attack roll), Wrath of the Stormdoes not trigger. That would include attacks with Magic Missile, Hold Person, or even Wrath of the Storm itself:
A consequence of this is that if two tempest clerics are fighting one another, and Ann smacks Bob with her mace, Bob may use Wrath of the Storm on Ann as a Reaction, but Ann cannot retaliate in turn, even though she might have a Reaction available, because Wrath of the Storm does not qualify as an attack.
There will be SPOILERS. If you are playing in a PotA game, please don’t read this. But if you are DMing a PotA game, or are a DM who wants to see what the ride was like … read on!
GM Recap
Session 41 (Days 36-37)
In … The Temple of the Crushing Wave, mostly
Before taking a long rest, William and Theren investigated the unexplored shops on the north end of the Temple of Howling Hatred. They only found a cloaker lurking in the shadows and, when they returned to rescue William’s stuff, audible signs of more kenku about. Somewhere in there, they slept and had disturbing dreams.
The party snuck back to the Temple of the Crushing Wave and, using Ko as a scout, determined that the dragon turtle was no longer around. They passed north to a bridge over the canal, under which lurked Ninetooth, the “missing” aquatic troll, who attacked them, grieving for Thuluna Maah.
The bridge ended in tall doors protected by a glyph of warding, which Theren deactivated. Over the roaring water, Moony and then William heard draconic voices talking about a pirate town, a war, and Olhydra.
The party charged into the temple. The lizardfolk guards were pretty easily dispatched, but stench-ridden hezrou demon took a lot of attacks (and heals) to overcome, leaving the party in possession of the desecrated temple.
Player Recap
Another Day, Another Demon
There will be several hours before the groups take a long rest. Faith Prays, Moony naps, Nala does sudoku. Theren and William decide to see if they missed anything in the air temple rooms they cleared before. They pass the cultists that are still tied to the pillars. They do not want to be released. There is nothing interesting in the room with the fountain. At first the merchant area is uneventful. Things go downhill when they enter a jewelers and William picks up a cloak that is actually a cloaker. He escapes death by the skin of his teeth by turning into a war horse to break free and run away. Unfortunately, William left his magic flame and everything he was wearing in the room with the cloaker.
Dreams.
William casts a new spell on Ko. He can see and feel through Ko’s senses. He walks quietly towards the room where the group met the dragon turtle. There is no sign of dragon or other foes. The group moves deeper into the water temple watching the dragon tooth sword as they go. The market square has tables overturned and smashed from when the dragon turtle came aground. Moony approaches the doors and examines it and the wall near the spillways. He notices a subtle magical glyph on the door. Theren is able to disable it with his arcane knowledge. He also listens at the door and hears voices speaking draconic. William sneaks up and can hear one saying something about a pirate town. Several others laugh. When the party is ready, Nala opens the door and charges into the room. There are about half a dozen lizard folks. The round doesn’t go well for the lizards. After they take significant damage an ally Hezrou emerges from the water. A grotesque demon, of mighty strength of limb and stench. The demon causes several party members to double over retching. Teamwork wins the day and the party is victorious.
Game Notes
What to do, what to do?
Something funny happened on the way to the next part of the adventure …
Player rests are always kind of a contentious thing in D&D, especially when their effect is so strong as it is in the 5e rules. For players, it becomes a matter of resource management — I have this many spell slots left. I have this many hit points remaining, and that many hit dice to convert them. That cool ability I have, I can only do once between Long Rests.
The temptation is, when the party’s been taxed and burned their resources, to take that Long Rest and get back up to snuff. Problem is, the rules are clear that you only get one Long Rest per 24 hour period, and it’s possible to burn all your powers well before evening falls.
In this case, after the near-disaster with Bronzefume, the party retreated to the Air Temple to take, yes, a Long Rest. But by my reckoning it was only about 2-3 in the afternoon. They were going to be hours sitting in that little dorm room, waiting to get sleepy enough to start the Long Rest cycle. I was trying, in a soft way, to chastise them for burning time that way.
(The scenario indicates that sleeping in one of the temples is very dangerous, because the Princes and their Prophets can detect their presence and send guards their way. I agree in principle; in reality, though, all the locals in the Air Temple have been killed, and I really don’t want to grind through more play time with parties of Howling Hatred cultists finding them and getting into a fight. Bo-ring. The only useful thing of that sort that I might do is have said parties interrupt their Long Rests so that they felt the need to exit Tyar-Besil altogether, and so deal with the mess out there.)
So I emphasized the “staring at the wallpaper” aspect of camping out, and the players reacted …
… by splitting the party, sending the Druid and the Sorcerer off checking out locales in the Air Temple for clues or treasure.
I had fun with the Cloaker
I could have simply hand-waved it — you find nothing but empty rooms and rubble — but the module is clear about What Lurks in the Shops around the Plaza of Moradin. And I thought it might be some fun lesson-teaching about wandering off in that fashion. (Yes, I am complex in my motivations.)
That the Cloaker almost killed the Druid (and, had I decided not to split attacks to the Sorcerer, too, would have) was just icing on the cake. And it gave the Druid a chance to do his beast form thing, which he almost never does.
Lesson, I expect, learned.
Faithful unto Death
Yes, those air cultists shackled to the pillars on the Air Temple map … are still there. Still starving to death. Still refusing to be released. Still hoping that Yan-C-Bin will teach them to “eat” air. Fanatics.
Rightly or wrongly, the party let them have their way.
Call of the Wild
Kenku
One fun bit I added in was hinting that there were still Kenku lurking in the northern part of the Air Temple. Not only had the bodies of Aerissi’s troops been stripped of weapons, but we got an echoing chorus of women screaming, trying to scare off the intruders.
I don’t know if the two party members would have checked those voices out on their own, but when they fled the Cloaker, it was full gallop back to the hotel room.
Dreams
So time for another round of dreams. The most noteworthy (from my perspective) were for Faith, the cleric who is now attuned to Windvane. How’s that going for you, Faith?
It feels like you’ve returned home after a long journey out to sea. You sit on a chair, looking out over the city, knowing that it is yours to rule, to conquer, to be loved by.
Your god is coming soon. You can feel it. Everything you’ve longed for, coming to fruition. You will be a queen, and all will want you, but will not be able to have you.
Windvane
Your holy symbol — all that represents the power of your god. It is with you. You cannot come to harm.
At your feet, Moony is curled up, deep vibrations, inaudible but perceptible, across your feet and ankles.
Silently behind you, around you, Nala protects you, waiting for your command, should any threat arise.
William sits to one side, hand-picked herbs and spices burning in censors at his feet, the smoke rising up about his head, giving him strange visions.
Theren prances about the floor before you, entertaining, creating fireworks, fountains of sharp-smelling liquids. He tries so hard.
Your wings — your beautiful wings, flicker and flap against your back. You are where you belong. Nothing can stop you now.
Yeah, she’s dreaming she’s Aerissi. Heh heh heh.
The Fighter and the Rogue had dreams around the Turtle Dragon. Unpleasant ones.
Theren the Sorcerer started getting instruction from Faith’s patron deity, Deneir, who was having problems reaching his cleric.
William the Druid, who triggered the Last Laugh magic a ten-day ago, had come to the end of his undead protection from the spell.
A man in black — black mask under a black brimmed hat, black cloak over velvet black finery — stands before you, sword drawn. “The Lord of the Stone. I can no longer protect you — you have delayed and procrastinated. Now I will never find him, never have the last laugh. And I blame –” He extends the sword until its tip is nearly pricking your nose. “– you.”
Valklondar, the hunter of the undead (or at least a dream visage of him), was pissed that William never told him where Oreioth is. Ah, well.
Moving On
There had been, last game, a question of where the party was going to go. After everyone trucked up the shops to recover William’s goods (dropped when he shifted into a horse, so that his continual flame item would continue to light up the room), I was half-convinced they were going to head off to the Fire Temple zone, right near where they were.
But, no, they’d all gotten the resolve to go to the “temple” part of the map for the Water Temple, which is where I wanted them to go anyway (so I could justify dinging them up to next level). (Recall that they are working off of incomplete maps drawn from the city map in Aerissi’s throne room.)
Aquatic Troll (Velrock)
They cleverly (if a bit callously) used Ko the Drake Companion to William (who’d take a Ranger level of three) to scout out to see if Bronzefume was still there. Nope. But they did run into the last Aquatic Troll lurking under the last bridge, loudly attacking them in vengeance for Thuluna.
(I loved bellowing “THU-LU-NAAAAAA!” as a grieving, vengeful troll.)
The Rogue did spot the Glyph of Warding (which would have made the battle in the temple a lot more interesting had it gone off).
Hezrou demon
The battle in the Temple was relatively quick — the party really does outclass Lizardfolk by this point, and the Cleric’s Spirit Guardians remain a buzz-saw of doom. The Hezrou was a bit more of a challenge — the stink/poison effect is delightful, and his resistances were astronomical, so taking him down was a pretty arduous task.
Meanwhile in Roll20 Tweaking
With Roll20 allowing people to put together their own token status sets, I created one myself using things that actually worked for the various conditions and so forth in D&D. I used the free icons at game-icons.net, and they worked out really nicely (with the exception that the PotA‘s Roll20 maps are at half-size, so the status icons come out oversized, old and new, harrumph).
Dave Token Markers
Anyway, the process was easy-peasy, and I was able to name the items for what they were for (e.g., the icon I wanted to use for the Blind condition, an eye with a slash through it, I named “Blind”, which made my Tweak-Status macro a lot more intuitive).
As the DM drums his fingers …
By God, they better finish up this dungeon this next game. The only question will be, will they go down the stairs to the Fane? I will probably do a similar Uncanny Feeling like I did with the Purple Worm — if they can push through it, I may well let them descend, even if they will be outclassed below. More lessons (not too fatal ones, I hope) to be learned.
What the party knew of the Water Temple by the end of the session. Are we there yet?
There will be SPOILERS. If you are playing in a PotA game, please don’t read this. But if you are DMing a PotA game, or are a DM who wants to see what the ride was like … read on!
GM Recap
Session 40 (Day 36)
In the Temple of the Crushing Wave …
The party interrogated Khalt. He confirmed that Gar Shatterkeel was not present, but would return. They threatened him with torturous death (!), until he agreed to take them the temple.
Instead, he took them to a room with a gargoyle fountain … with a door heading north to the domain of the Black Earth … and a pair of Nothics that sucked various memories from Moony, before fleeing, one to the north and one to the south. The latter was dispatched.
Khalt managed to teleport away from Ko’s tether, and away from Nala and Faith, diving into the canal. Faith pursued and, against all odds, took him down by bowshot before he could escape.
The party headed toward the bridge north to the “High Temple” — but entering the marketplace they found the bodies there had been ceremonially arranged, and a pair of Reavers were there, one of whom rang the gong. Though the Reavers were quickly dispatched, the Dragon Turtle, Bronzefume, rising from the lake, was not so easily dealt with. William tried to talk them down, but Bronzefume ended up attacking, nearly killing Faith, Nala, and William, and slaying Ko.
Though they responded with some attacks, it was quickly clear that the Dragon Turtle was a serious challenge. Faith threw down a sleet storm which both slowed Bronzefume and obscured the line of sight between it and them. The party fled, regrouped, and headed back to the Temple of Howling Hatred, fearful of any wide corridor or water channel.
Hunkering down in one of the Air Cult dormitory rooms in the southwest, they resolved to wait out several hours, and then take a Long Rest, before dealing with what to do next:
Head to the “Forges” (presumed to be the Fire cult area)
Head back to the Water cult area, to sneak past Bronzefume to the “High Temple” to deal with Gar Shatterkeel.
Head back to the Water cult area, to sneak around to the “Gates” (the Earth cult area).
Player Recap
Our Clocks Are Steam-Cleaned
Nala questions the captive Khalt. There are threats of fire and laughter as he names off other lead cultists who will avenge him. They are all dead. Shatterkeel is away bargaining with their goddess Olhydra. Eventually the intimidation plays out and Khalt says that Shatterkeel if below in the maelstrom communing with Olhydra. He doesn’t have much other useful information, so they ask him to lead them to the entrance to the down-below.
Moony feels like something is going on in his head. He recalls being in Gemvox’ parlor hearing about the mission that he was sending Moony on. There is a Nothic in the shadows beside him. He has flashes of memories from his home village. Moony also sees a second Nothic to his right. William only sees Moony standing there as another memory flashes — a vision of Aerisi falling to the ground and her wings being stripped away before she disappears.
As the surprise ends, the rest of the group moves into the room. They gang up on the first Nothic (one-eyed wonder-worm). When it is on its last legs it flees the room, entering a corridor to the north descending into darkness. There is an Black Earth cult symbol on the wall.
Ko tries to pull Khalt into the room. The rope breaks and Khalt appears down the hall. Faith and Nala pursue Khalt and a second Nothic appears. Moony takes a shot at Khalt with aid from Ko. Khalt teleports away and dives into the canal. Faith chases after Khalt but doesn’t see him. Nala and Moony finish off the second Nothic. Faith casts a light spell on a pebble and throws it 60 feet down the canal. She just sees Khalt 30 feet up stream from the bridge. She takes an Inspired shot and manages to do enough damage against Khalt to kill him. Faith returns to the group with a big grin. The courtyard of the Gargoyle Fountain is a mess. The walls are crumbling and there are bones and Nothic waste all around. The group decides to take a Short Rest before heading to the High Temple.
In the large room that leads to the High Temple, there are a couple of Reavers preparing the bodies of the dead. A battle ensues and they are taken out, but not before they ring the gong. The water ripples and parts as a gigantic Dragon Turtle rises up from the lake. Everyone holds their actions while William tries to reason with the creature. He assumes that she is a captive like the Djinn in the Air Temple. Alas, she is a young and eager convert to the cult of the Crushing Wave. With a sad eye she exhales a huge cone of super heated steam. It seriously damages most of the party and takes out Ko. When it becomes clear that the party is out-classed, Faith casts Sleet Storm to hide their retreat and slow the dragon.
After a mad dash through the halls of the water temple and into the air temple, the group holes up in one of the rooms in the air temple. They spend the rest of the day taking stock of the situation and planning for the assault on the temple. Nothing disturbs them that night except their dreams.
Game Notes
Tick-tock
So the Water Temple took longer than expected. There are ways I could have short-circuited that here — neither the Nothics nor Bronzefume were essential. But both were fun and different, and, honestly, I wasn’t working on a deadline here. If the players were enjoying themselves (and I was, too), then what’s the harm.
Which comparing the overall length of this campaign, vs. other reports of PotA play, is clearly the case. We took longer. But (I sure hope) we had fun.
“There Is A Hole In Your Mind”
The Nothics were just plain creepy.
Nothic
Everything the players had encountered to this point was (a) evil people, (b) elemental forces, or (c) standard monsters.
Aberrations? Things that do necrotic damage? Things that suck your memories out?
Creepy.
Though, to my mind, also kind of pathetic. They were just sort of hiding out in their corner there, maybe picking off the occasional cultist, certainly stealing some memories, but for the most part willing to live and let live.
The players didn’t quite see it that way.
I did have fun calling up memories for Moony to remember and the Nothics to abscond with.
The Dragon Turtle
The party knew there was a dragon around — the Dragonbone Sword told them. And I’m sure they were expecting something that would give them a challenge.
Bronzefume wasn’t quite this big. Quite. Yet.
They were not ready for Bronzefume the Dragon Turtle.
To be fair, Bronzefume was a case of everything going completely wrong for the party. By coming in from the east side of the marketplace, and without any particular stealth, the party alerted the pair of Reavers random-encountered there (the last two in the complex, in fact, who had been arranging the bodies of their dead comrades on the tables for some ceremonial purpose). And the one down on the west side, near the gong, rolled top score for initiative. And was far enough away that nobody could do anything about it.
And then, even though the party quickly dispatched the Reavers so that they weren’t fighting when Bronzefume showed up two rounds later, William quite rationally chose the “Hey, we’re not with them, we’re on your side” tactic that was perfect for Ahtayir the Djinn in the Air Temple … but very not so much for Bronzefume the Loyal Young Cultist in the Water Temple.
And even though the party had kind of spread out in the market, that didn’t help against the the sixty-foot cone from the Dragon Turtle; nor did the Dodge that everyone was using (the Steam Breath is a CONstitution save, not like Red Dragon’s Fire Breath). The damage roll was just above average, and nearly killed three players.
On the other hand, the party did quickly react to GTFO, and Faith’s Sleet Storm kept Bronzefume from targeting them further (and slowed it down substantially, given its land speed is so low already). It was a second top moment for the Cleric that night.
The Bronzefume encounter may have been the first time the party actually realized they were not going to be able to win a battle. It would be interesting to see how that affected their future actions.
The Stubbornness of the Stubborn Player
The top moment for the Cleric that night was when Khalt, the One-Eyed Shiver they had taken prisoner, chose the Nothic battle as a chance to escape. Misty Step is a wicked spell — verbal-only and a Bonus Action. So he could use it and Dash. Khalt, manacled, also got some great Athletics rolls while in the canal, swimming away.
Inspiration is your friend.
Faith wouldn’t let go. She couldn’t see him in the shadows of the canal, so she cast light on a rock and threw it in that direction, barely illuminating Khalt, who was just about to get out of the water and make good his escape to the temple. She pulled out her bow, which I told her because of the dim light and distance would be at Disadvantage — so she burned her Inspiration … hit … and then rolled a 2 on the damage (groans) … which happened to be how many HP he had left. And another corpse floats down the canal …
I gave her an Inspiration back. It was remarkably played and my expectations about how it would end were thwarted by the player/character’s persistence.
What next?
The players were split at the end — some wanted to finish clearing the Water Temple (aside from the Dragon Turtle in the lake, of course), thinking they need to get to the “High Temple” therein to advance (my preference). Others wanted to progress to the Black Earth quarter. Some were daunted by how the throne room map showed damage and depressing color commentary in that zone, and want instead to go to the Forges, the Eternal Flame quarter (which would be a bit of a level mess, as it’s designed for level 9).
On the one hand, it’s always cool when the players have different ideas about where to go next. It’s a sign I’m not railroading them (too much). On the other hand, it did mean additional prep on my part in case they did go hallooing off in an unexpected direction.
What the party had explored by the end of this session.
Leveling was the other thing I needed to consider here. As noted before, the milestone of defeating the Temple of the Crushing Wave was level-up from 7 to 8. But had they defeated it? With Gar fled and Thuluna and Morbeoth both slain, theoretically, yes — the cult here would not recover (unless Gar succeeded in his quesrt). On the other hand, with the “High Temple” untaken, I’d been reluctant to award the win.
The fact was, unless they went messing around in the Starry Lake, by the time they got back to the Marketplace in 16 hours (it was still around Noon, but they were planning on camping out and Long Resting in their little hidey-hole) Bronzefume would be back at the bottom, watching his (substantial) treasure. They should go back and finish things up. But if they didn’t, wouild I count that as a milestone missed and no level-up? How far would they continue at that handicap?
Bah. If they decided to skip stuff, I’d give them the reward — they had effectively earned it. But not until they made that decision and acted on it — if I could get them to the “High Temple,” that would add some good story moments.
Some Roll20 Moments
As previously noted, I was running this game within the Roll20 VTT which, for the most part, was performing like a champ (and making it much easier for us all to gather together on Friday nights.
Dynamic Lighting in Roll20 is cool. The Marketplace, in particular, was nicely illumined … and when Bronzefume appeared at the far end, just his edge was visible in the dim light (and even that went away when William politely got rid of his Bonfire). Everything was perfectly visible to me as the DM, but it looked nicely creepy over on my wife’s computer screen.
I asked the players to take care of their own token markers this game, and they actually did a pretty good job of it. I further updated my Status-Tweak macro to include Helping and Dodging, both of which were useful.
The only real Roll20 problem, in fact, was that, because the scaling on the provided Roll20 PotA maps was at 50%, the status markers were oversized, obscuring much of the tokens. Mutter-mutter WotC.
I’d learned the technique at this point, for time and ease’s sake, to mass-transporting people along (cluster them together, select their tokens, move them in unison through the map, stopping at key junctions so that they players can see) when going through already-known terrain. It’s just much more efficient than asking people to move their tokens along when it doesn’t matter, and which inevitably leads to someone who is distracted or looking something up finding themselves left behind.
The problem is that it also leads to a predictable outcome. When they were getting back to the Marketplace, I set them down at the Bridge of Victory and asked which way they wanted to approach — through the Court of the Merfolk from the south, through the Bugbear Quarters, or through the ruined area to the east. (Their choice of the latter, “because bad things always happen when we go through the Court of the Merfolk,” turned out to be a tactical error.)
But later I heard the comment, “We should have known something was up, because that’s when Dave puts us down and asks us what we’re doing.” D’oh!
So Thunderwave (PHB 282-83) is a pretty cool spell, and usually ends up in a lot of parties’ repertoire (also in the repertoire of a lot of enemy parties). It does decent damage, an AoE, a push, and the CONstitution save it carries makes it most useful against spellcasters. It does make a godawful racket (carrying 300 feet away, which any DM should take advantage of), but it also scales damage by spell slot.
Overall, a nifty spell. But we’re not going to talk about any of that.
Thunderwave and its Area of Effect
This came up in a game, so afterwards I did some looking into the odd Area of Effect world that is Cubes and Thunderwave.
(There’s a lot about 5e that I respect, but their AoE stuff is kind of janky in general and then the fit onto a grid map — which 5e really sort of dislikes on principle but cannot ignore because a lot of tables really love it, like ours — is even more janky.)
Thunderwave has Range: Self (15-foot cube).“A wave of thunderous force sweeps out from you. Each creature in a 15-foot cube originating from you …” blah blah effects.
So, what does that mean? How does the cube relate to the caster? You would think a Cube AoE would be easy. Yet some of the writing on it approaches being Talmudic in its intricacies to figure out what RAW means here. This is my current interpretation:
You select a cube’s point of origin, which lies anywhere on a face of the cubic effect. The cube’s size is expressed as the length of each side.
A cube’s point of origin is not included in the cube’s area of effect, unless you decide otherwise.
AoE and Grid Maps
DMG 251 notes the following on “Areas of Effect” in relation to grid maps:
The area of effect of a spell, monster ability, or other feature must be translated onto squares or hexes to determine which potential targets are in the area and which aren’t. Choose an intersection of squares or hexes as the point of origin of an area of effect, then follow its rules as normal.
And Xanathar’s echoes this, speaking of “Area of Effect on a Grid”:
Choose an intersection of squares as the point of origin of an area of effect, then follow the rules for that kind of area as normal (see the “Areas of Effect” section in chapter 10 of the Player’s Handbook).
This is one that drives me bats as DM, because everyone wants their spell to be centered in in the center of a square (in origin, in target, in range calculations), and the rule are very clear that is not the case: for where spells start from, land (if not targeting a creature), and calculating the range, it’s all about intersections.
So, standing in a 5×5 grid square, any of the four corners of the square / intersections of the grid are at a range of “self” and are corners that could be the face of the cube you are going to create (including a cube that you are part of, if you are touching the outside face from the inside). Here then would be the possible arrangements I can see:
Cube AoE arrangements
Any of the above can be rotated in increments of 90 degrees.
I.e., you can be on any of the squares outside of the cube, or on the inner squares of the cube, wherever one of the corners of your square touches (red blips) part of the perimeter (side) of the cube. But not in the very center, because you can’t reach that outer face from there.
I’ve not seen anyone actually include the bottom left “corner” example, but it seems to fit the rules to my eyes.
Insider Casting
There is some debate as whether being on the inside of the cube (bottom right-hand two examples) is allowed. I don’t read anything in the above, though, that says it isn’t. That might mean including yourself in the spell effect (but hold that thought for a moment).
Note that though you can be within the cube, for the Thunderwave spell, “the thunderous force sweeps out from you,” so you yourself are not affected when you cast it, even if you are in the area. (Which is a fancier way of saying that you, as the point of origin, are not affected by spells that have a point of origin; a point is not dimensionless, in this case.)
(But Dave, you might be saying, if the point of origin is the grid intersection you are casting from, then doesn’t the thunderous force emanate from that and, if you are inside the AoE, affect you, too? To which I say (1) remember how I said some of this stuff gets Talmudic? and (2) go away, boy, you bother me.)
When would you use a case, of being inside (not the center!) of the cube? Two use cases I can think of:
To reduce the effective effective range to 10 feet rather than 15 feet (potentially important in an indoor combat).
To include a tiny opponent in your own square (an edge case, but a potentially helpful one).
To sum up
So, unless anyone has any objections, that’s how I consider the area for Thunderwave to work.
It’s the damaging, crowd-controlling, Area of Effect spell that keeps on giving. You thought Entanglement was a pain in the ass? Try something (if you are a Druid or Ranger) that doesn’t prevent you from moving, just slows you and damages you when you try to: Spike Growth!
So what does it say?
The ground in a 20-foot radius centered on a point within range twists and sprouts hard spikes and thorns. The area becomes difficult terrain for the duration. When a creature moves into or within the area, it takes 2d4 piercing damage for every 5 feet it travels.
So we really have two effects here over the Concentration / 10 minutes of the spell:
The area of the spell is Difficult Terrain.
The area of the spell causes 2d4 piercing damage per 5 feet travelled.
This 2nd level spell would be somewhat effective at crowd control if all it did was slow the bad guys down. Causing 2d4 damage for every 5 feet (one square on a normal grid) traveled is murderous at early levels. A figure with a 30-foot move will be slowed to 15 feet (Difficult terrain), and take 6d4 (6-24) points of damage, with no AC or Save to mitigate it, each turn. And that applies to everyone within the spell area.
No, honestly, I have seem very large early mobs gutted by a well-positioned use of this spell.
Spike Growth
This spell is particularly deadly because, while most “this area causes you damage” spells affect someone once per turn (e.g., Moonbeam), Spike Growth will mess them up for every square they move through. Plus, there’s no save.
Plus, it’s Sneaky
The spell notes:
The transformation of the ground is camouflaged to look natural. Any creature that can’t see the area at the time the spell is cast must make a Wisdom (Perception) check against your spell save DC to recognize the terrain as hazardous before entering it.
So you can set it as a trap for pursuers. If they don’t see it cast, they require a save to spot it before they blunder in.
Pushing In
There are a variety of ways of pushing or dragging folk into a Spike Growth spell area, from a Shove attack to Thorn Whip to Thunderwave to Thunderous Smite. It’s not always clear with these effects whether a target is dragged at ground level (in which case they would take damage each square of Spike Growth they were moved through) or somehow hurled through the air (in which case only the target square would cause damage).
The DM will have adjudicate based on the specific spell / effect and the circumstances it occurs in, to see how much damage the target takes.
Getting Out
The old saying of “Getting out means going through” is a losing proposition with Spike Growth. Going through means taking more damage.
Tactics for those caught in the spell:
Wait it out. Yeah, that’s not likely over 10 minutes, but one of your comrades might disrupt the Concentration of the caster.
Remove Yourself (Usually Vertically). A long jump away, a high jump to grab something above, or, of course, some sort of teleport or flight can get you out of the area.
Enjoy the melee cover. If you are a spellcaster or ranged weapon person, being stuck in Spike Growth isn’t nearly as problematic. Stand there and ranged-attack your opponents (maybe particularly the caster), knowing that the opposition melee fighters will likely not be charging you.
Limits of Growth
Spike Growth does not scale. Even with no save, at some point in the leveling/CR equation, 2d4 damage per square does not daunt in quite the same way.
Sure, it creates Difficult Terrain (always a good thing), and 2d4 over enough squares starts to add up, but a 15th Level character will be a lot less worried over it (or have ways around it) than a 2nd Level character.
In the most recent campaign I ran, this spell was a go-to for our Druid all the way up the level progression. It damages, it illumines (maybe), it pretty much does it all.
Let’s talk about Bonfire
Create Bonfire is a pretty straightforward spell, so much so that it can be easily overlooked, even as it’s accessible by Druid, Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard, or Artificer players.
You create a bonfire on ground that you can see within range. Until the spell ends, the magic bonfire fills a 5-foot cube.
The bonfire ignites flammable objects in its area that aren’t being worn or carried.
The Bonfire does 1d8 damage to start with, scaling up by character level (not class level). The save for fire damage is a DEXterity roll, which is often easily made by enemies (resulting in no damage, as Cantrips usually do), but not always. Overall, damage is not amazing, but not for nothing.
The Movable Bonfire
Wait, you might say — a Bonfire can’t be moved.
True. Unlike, say, Moonbeam, there are no rules for Create Bonfire.
But they aren’t needed. This is a Cantrip. You can cast it every single turn. It’s a Concentration spell, but that doesn’t matter here. If your Bonfire is burning there, you can easily simply recast it on your turn to be there.
When does the damage occur?
Here’s the tricky part that makes Create Bonfire interesting.
Any creature in the bonfire’s space when you cast the spell must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take 1d8 fire damage.
A creature must also make the saving throw when it moves into the bonfire’s space for the first time on a turn or ends its turn there.
So the check for damage takes place in three situations:
If the target is in the square where the Bonfire is cast.
If the target moves (or is moved) into the Bonfire square on a given turn.
If the target ends its turn in the Bonfire square.
This gives the spell a scosh more flexibility than, say, Moonbeam. It immediately attacks when cast.
Also, as noted, a target can be moved into the Bonfire and immediately have to check for damage. This could be with a Shove attack, a Thorn Whip, or some other means. This can actually be done to a target multiple times per round (the restriction is only once per given turn).
It burns!
While the damage done by the Bonfire is not tremendous, as a DM, I’d also factor in the psychological aspect — stepping into/through fire, or standing in fire, even if the damage being done isn’t overwhelming, is still not easy to do. I’d suggest that that most mooks will run around the Bonfire, or will try to step out of it if they can, rather than take the 1d8 each turn.
It’s a floor polish and a dessert topping!
While we tend to think of most spells in terms of combat effect, Create Bonfire can also do something as simple as it says outside of combat, too, as it will set any flammable material on fire. And, as a cantrip, there’s no effective cost to starting the party’s campfire each evening once someone has gathered some wood.
Looking at an alternate use, interestingly enough, there is some intense debate out there whether the Bonfire, which clearly emits heat, actually emits light. In the campaign I ran, the Druid often used the spell to illumine dark rooms for the darkvisionally challenged.
Why it might not create light: The spell itself does not list it as an effect, as some other fire-based spells do. Compare the text above for Create Bonfire to this for Flaming Sphere:
The sphere ignites flammable objects not being worn or carried, and it sheds bright light in a 20-foot radius and dim light for an additional 20 feet.
Why it clearly creates light: It is a Conjuration of a bonfire, and that seems to be fairly clear in intent.
I leave it to the DM to make this particular ruling, though I find the idea of a non-light-emitting bonfire, even if magical, to be baffling.
Our party’s Druid (it’s also available for Artificer) had this spell and used it pretty constantly from the time it arrived to the time the campaign ended at Level 13.
The damage from Thorn Whip is okay, maybe a bit better in the early days when damage is hard to come by, though it scales nicely (something 5e has done well with cantrips). But its true utility comes with its ability to shove people around the battlefield.
You create a long, vine-like whip covered in thorns that lashes out at your command toward a creature in range [30 ft]. Make a melee spell attack against the target. If the attack hits, the creature takes 1d6 piercing damage, and if the creature is Large or smaller, you pull the creature up to 10 feet closer to you.
This spell’s damage increases by 1d6 when you reach 5th level (2d6), 11th level (3d6), and 17th level (4d6).
That’s actually pretty cool. A 30-foot range magical attack (requiring an actual attack roll) that does decent damage and lets you yoink people around the game map (at least closer across the game map) by up to 10 feet.
And it’s a cantrip, so you can be playing with this every single round, if you are so inclined.
Note also that, as a (30-foot reach) melee attack (not a ranged attack), the caster takes no Disadvantage using it while standing next to an opponent. The caster is still at Disadvantage vs prone targets over 5 feet away (the rules don’t differentiate between melee and ranged attacks there). Cover effects also still apply.
Finally, in visualizing this spell, most people imagine the caster holding the whip and swing it themselves. However, there’s nothing in the spell that actually says that — it could be floating in mid-air, erupting from the ground — whatever, and because it’s a spell attack, not a weapon attack — you don’t dexterously swing it, but “command it to lash out.” It’s magic!
Moving the target around
Those words “pull the creature up to 10 feet” are important, because they make it clear that the caster has a choice about whether to move the target at all or how much. It can be left just as a 1d6 damage attack, with the target still standing where they were, or they can be moved 5 feet or 10 feet (or whatever increments your battle grid has, within that 10 foot limit).
But what does closer mean here? Because of the limited distance being moved, I would (in lieu of a more informed reading) argue that each square needs to be toward the caster, reducing the overall distance each step.
x x x x x
x x T x x
x 5 5 5 x
10 10 10 10 10
- - - - -
- - C - -
So, in the case above, the (C)aster could move the (T)arget into each of the numbered points at 5 feet; if moving 10 feet, they would have to got to one of the 10 foot marks. They could not shift into a different 5 foot mark, and definitely not into any of the (x) squares because the move to those is further or the same distance from the Caster.
A lot of questions are raised by the pulling aspect of Thorn Whip (is the victim dragged? catapulted? floated through the air? teleported? and why is there no Strength Save?), but a main use for this power is dragging someone into a hazard — off a cliff, into a Bonfire spell, into a Moonbeam spell, into a Spike Growth spell, up to the immobilized Barbarian, etc.
Is this legit? And (when) does the victim take damage from those hazard areas? The answers are, “Yes” and “It depends.”
Let’s start off by noting that Opportunity Attacks will not be triggered by being yoinked away by a Thorn Whip. That’s pretty much straight out of the book:
You also don’t provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when someone or something moves you without using your Movement, Action, or Reaction. For example, you don’t provoke an opportunity attack if an explosion hurls you out of a foe’s reach or if gravity causes you to fall past an enemy.
Since being yoinked by a Thorn Whip doesn’t use your Movement, Action, or Reaction, no OA is triggered.
Entering such an area of effect needn’t be voluntary, unless a spell says otherwise. You can, therefore, hurl a creature into the area with a spell like Thunderwave. We consider that clever play, not an imbalance, so hurl away!
The subject in that ruling is on spells creating …
… an area of effect that does something when a creature enters that area for the first time on a turn or when a creature starts its turn in that area.
That includes things like Blade Barrier, Cloudkill, Spirit Guardians, and Moonbeam. While “creating an area of effect on the creature or moving it onto the creature doesn’t count,” involuntarily entering the area does.
One caveat there:
Keep in mind, however, that a creature is subjected to such an area of effect only the first time it enters the area on a turn. You can’t move a creature in and out of it to damage it over and over again on the same turn.
So given a Moonbeam occupying four squares, you could not force an attack from the spell for each square you used Thorn Whip to drag the target through (i.e., if you dragged them through two squares of it, the 5 foot and 10 foot marks of the spell), just for the initial entry square on your turn.
An exception here (of course there is an exception) is something like Spike Growth. Unlike spells like Moonbeam that trigger “when a creature enters the spell’s area for the first time on a turn,” Spike Growth states:
When a creature moves into or within the area, it takes 2d4 piercing damage for every 5 feet it travels.
Within and every 5 feet it travels are the keys here. You can Thorn Whip someone through two squares (10 feet) of Spike Growth and it will take the 2d4 piercing for each of those squares.
Thorn Whip: It’s Magic!
The magical nature of the pulling done by Thorn Whip is interesting. As described:
If the creature is Large or smaller, you pull the creature up to 10 feet closer to you.
So, note first, this targets creatures. You cannot Thorn Whip over to you the idol sitting on the pedestal over there, or Thorn Whip away the sword in someone’s hand (or that they dropped on the floor).
Second, within the parameter of “Large or smaller,” the target gets no choice or control in the matter of being moved. Standing there slack-jawed or holding onto a support beam for dear life with a STRength of 20, the creature doesn’t even get a Save — they just come. It’s magic!
How does the targeted creature actually move? Fly through the air? Dragged along the ground? It’s not just a teleport because they can take damage from environmental and magical conditions each step of the way. But the spell also doesn’t tie into movement or movement obstacles — it stays nothing about being “slowed” by Difficult Terrain, for example.
I dunno. It’s magic!
Can you Thorn Whip someone through another creature’s square? If you have defeated the cover that other creature is providing, then the answer would seem to be yes, even if it’s an enemy of the target; the only things the rules don’t permit is leaving them in another creature’s square unless it fits other movement/size rules.
What about other obstacles? Assuming you can see past/around them, can you pull a Thorn Whipped person through an obstacle they couldn’t move through themselves? I’d say not, as a general rule; they’ll have to be pulled around. (But hold this thought for a moment …)
Showing Restraint vs Thorn Whip
What if the target is restrained in some way — grappled, or Entangled, or held by Black Tentacles, or even shackled to a wall? Can Thorn Whip just pull them over regardless? Remember, the individual creature is powerless to stop themselves from being pulled by the spell. But can outside forces prevent it?
Boy, can you find a lot of online argument about that!
General conclusions I’ve drawn on these questions:
Thorn Whip breaks a grapple, because the grapple rules literally allow for the grapple to be broken by some outside force.
Against spells that Restrain, like Entangle or Black Tentacles, two alternatives are suggested and, to be honest, I vacillate between them as I reductio ad absurdem each case:
Being Restrained should resist against Forced Movement. In which case, turn it into a spell contest by the Thorn Whip caster versus the Entangled caster — e.g., the Thorn Whip exerts a “Strength” for the Entangle spell’s Strength Save of d20 + proficiency + stat bonus. This makes logical sense, but (a) isn’t RAW, and, more importantly (b) starts implying that strength of some sort can counter Thorn Whip, and it’s clear (from lack of a Save against being yoinked) that’s simply not true.
Against actual physical restraints (being shackled to the wall) … well, it works like the spells mentioned above: either Thorn Whip just moves the target creature regardless of the shackles (because it’s magic!),or make the Thorn Whip save with the spell strength vs a DC 20 for the manacles.
In either case, no additional damage should be done to the target. It’s only a freaking cantrip, fergoshsakes.
This escalating conflict between the Thorn Whip‘s clear it’s magic! nature, which is baked into the language the spell, and the voice of reason as restraints become bigger and more powerful, can only end in things like “I try to Thorn Whip the target through the bars of the jail cell,” and what silliness that results in. At some point the DM has to step in and adjudicate something that feels right while fitting the Rule of Cool.
One final weird factor in all of this is that the duration for Thorn Whip is “instantaneous.”
Many spells are instantaneous. The spell harms, heals, creates, or alters a creature or an object in a way that can’t be dispelled, because its magic exists only for an instant.
That is, it’s not faster than the eye (you can see the whip, you can see it strike, you can see the yank, you could theoretically Counterspell it), but it happens faster than can be addressed or exploited by, for example, a Dispel Magic (or cutting the whip with your sword, or using the whip to make a gibbet, etc.).
Bearing in mind that D&D is not a tool for modeling physics, Thorn Whip is a spell whose nature and execution does not bear too close an examination. Take it as written. It’s magic!
Is Thorn Whip a magical weapon or not?
I keep saying “it’s magic,” but when does it count as magic? This question can come up in a number of circumstances — in my game, it was when the Druid used Thorn Whip on a Gargoyle, which is “resistant to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical weapons.” Does Thorn Whip qualify, or not? Is Thorn Whip a magical weapon?
YES: It’s created by a spell, it uses a melee spell attack to hit, and the spell damage increases with level.
NO: The spell description only mentions piercing damage, from an object created by the spell, not from the spell directly.
Arguments for Yes, it’s a magic attack
Because it’s a melee spell attack roll, not a normal melee weapon attack roll, the resistance to weapons doesn’t apply. Melee spell attacks follow the same rules as melee attacks; in this case, a melee attack with a 30 foot range. But it uses the spell attack modifier (spellcasting ability + proficiency) to hit, so, again, it’s a spell attack and ignores the resistance.
The Sage Advice Compendium notes (p. 21), in determining if something is magical, qualifying questions would include “Is it a spell? … Is it a spell attack?” This is a spell, and uses a melee spell attack.
Mike Mearls (one of the 5e designers) agrees that “any piercing, bludgeoning or slashing damage from spells count as magical in nature.”
The Monster Manual notes“Particular creatures are even resistant or immune to damage from non-magical attacks (a magical attack is an attack delivered by a spell, a magic item, or another magical source).” This attack is delivered by a spell.
The whip both magically appears and disappears. That indicates it’s not some sort of physical item being created, but a magic construct.
The whip not only does damage, it magically lets you pull something closer to you without any additional roll (or save). Thus the overall attack is magical.
Arguments for No, it’s a non-magical weapon attack
The spell itself doesn’t do the damage; the whip created by it does. Again, the spell doesn’t indicate it creates a magical whip, just a long, vine-like whip that the spell allows you to commend.
And it does piercing damage, like a weapon, not magical damage (force, radiance, necrotic, etc.).
That the damage increases with level doesn’t mean it’s additional magical damage, but could be additionally pointy / strong non-magical thorns.
Conclusion
Net-net, I am persuaded that Thorn Whip isa magical / spell attack (i.e., textualist arguments aside, the vine-like whip is an embodied spell, following the arguments around Spiritual Weapon), so it would defeat non-magical weapon resistance or immunity.
Of course, as an extension of that, something like an Antimagic Field would affect the vine reaching a target within it (even if the caster was outside of the field). It could also be countered, as noted, by a Counterspell.
Each creature that is completely within the cloud at the start of its turn must make a Constitution saving throw against poison. On a failed save, the creature spends its Action that turn retching and reeling.
When I first played with this, I ruled that this still allowed Movement (since that isn’t mentioned), but, just as anything that takes away your Action also takes way your Bonus Action, the only thing you could do was retching and reeling.
But that’s not what it says. The Stinking Cloud doesn’t take away your Action, it dictates your action (retching and reeling). I.e., your Action is set, but you still have your Bonus Action (and Reaction, for that matter).
The stinking cloud spell says that a creature wastes its Action on a failed save. So can it still use a Move or a Bonus Action or a Reaction?
Correct. The gas doesn’t immobilize a creature or prevent it from acting altogether, but the effect of the spell does limit what it can accomplish while the cloud lingers.
Movement is a bit problematic, of course. The area covered by Stinking Cloud is Heavily Obscured.
A heavily obscured area–such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage–blocks vision entirely. A creature effectively suffers from the blinded condition when trying to see something in that area.
Or, presumably, out of that area. Blinded, in turn:
A blinded creature can’t see and automatically fails any Ability check that requires sight.
Attack rolls against the creature have Advantage, and the creature’s attack rolls have Disadvantage.
Note the offsetting penalties — trying to Attack someone inside the cloud has to deal with Heavily Obscured conditions, and so is at Disadvantage (as though blinded). But the target is, themselves, blind to the attack, putting them at a Disadvantage. That makes, even without all the loud retching sounds attacks on a figure within a Stinking Cloud even money. (A figure inside the cloud can’t Attack if they failure save, except through a Bonus Action, but with that Bonus Action, or if they make the save, theoretically they are also a wash to attack a target outside the cloud, unless that target is using stealth or a Dodge or something of that sort.)
I might House Rule that, combined with the Retching and Reeling, being blinded in such a circumstance would lead to disorientation — perhaps another Save (Intelligence?) to move in a desired direction?
As a final note, the rules say “completely within the cloud” for the nausea effect. So if you are playing on a grid, and are using a true circle for your template (physically or on a VTT), any one in a partially covered circle isn’t affected. Which is why I prefer to have a template that fills in full boxes on the grid, to avoid the ambiguity.
Since I’ve had players pick this, because it sounds very cool (and it can be), I had to do some digging into some of the aspects of Spiritual Weapon that are not completely obvious.
Spiritual Weapon is weird
No, seriously. But that’s because people see “weapon” and try to (incorrectly) apply all sorts of melee combat weapon rules and assumptions to it. It’s not:
Spiritual Weapon is a multi-round melee attack spell that looks like a weapon because that’s really cool.
If you just keep that in mind, you can ignore the whole rest of this post.
You create a floating, spectral weapon within range that lasts for the Duration or until you cast this spell again. When you cast the spell, you can make a melee spell attack against a creature within 5 feet of the weapon. On a hit, the target takes force damage equal to 1d8 + your Spellcasting Ability modifier.
As a Bonus Action on your turn, you can move the weapon up to 20 feet and repeat the attack against a creature within 5 feet of it.
The first confusion comes when wondering whether on Round 1 you simply cast it as your BA, and then need to take a regular Attack action to wield it, or not. The consensus wisdom out there is “or not”: the attack is also part of the Bonus Action (as it is in subsequent rounds), which means the following “what can you do with it when?”:
Round 1: As a Bonus Action: cast up to 60 feet away + attack.
Rounds 2ff: As a Bonus Action: move it up to 20 feet + attack.
And that lasts either until you dispel it or 1 minute (10 rounds).
These Are Not the Weapons You’re Looking For
“But! But!” people sputter, “It’s a weapon attacking! That has to happen during a normal Action as an attack! You can’t have a spell doing a weapon attack and then do a different weapon attack or even a spell-cast, on the same turn!”
Yes. Yes you can. Because what you see isn’t what’s really happening. It’s not actually a weapon, not matter what it says in the name.
Think of the Spiritual Weapon as a deconstructed magical attack spell. Nobody would question the ability to manifest a magical zap spelland attack with it that very same Bonus Action. Which is what you’re actually doing with Spiritual Weapon, but the magical zap spell looks and moves like a weapon, which confuses the heck out of people, because they want to treat it as a glowing animated physical weapon that does physical damage.
But it’s not. It is, quite literally “a floating, spectral weapon” that does “force damage” — and the likelihood of hitting with it has nothing to do with your physical melee abilities (Strength and Dexterity), but your melee spell abilities.
So while you’re doing Spiritual Weapon, what else can you do?
Well, on the round you cast it, that only burns your Bonus Action. So you have your full normal Movement and an Action to work with.
If you want to Cast a Spell that has a casting time of 1 Bonus Action, remember that you can’t cast any other Spells before or after it on the same turn, except for Cantrips with a Casting Time of 1 Action.
So on that initial round when you cast the Spiritual Weapon, you can’t do any other spells except a 1-Action casting time Cantrip. You can still move around, shoot your bow, swing your sword, Hide, etc.
On subsequent rounds, though, you can be casting spells during your normal Action, because the move-and-attack of the Spiritual Weapon is not a casting of a spell. As noted in the Sage Advice Compendium (p. 12)
Until Spiritual Weapon ends, it gives you the option of controlling its spectral weapon as a Bonus Action. That Bonus Action does not involve casting a spell, despite the fact that it’s granted by a spell, so you can control the weapon and cast whatever spell you like on the same turn.
In that same context, also note that Spiritual Weapon is not a Concentration spell. So even if the caster is attacked or otherwise distracted, that does not affect the spell, and casting the Spiritual Weapon does not interfere with other Concentration spells you already have up. (One could even argue that, should the caster go unconscious, the Spiritual Weapon would simply remain there, floating — it can’t attack without command — until the caster was revived if within the 1 minute spell duration.)
There Are No Stupid Questions About Spiritual Weapon
Well, maybe a few.
Does moving away from a Spiritual Weapon trigger an Opportunity Attack?
No. The Spiritual Weapon is not a creature of itself (it has no volition or reaction). And it only attacks during a Bonus Action: Opportunity Attacks are a Reaction.
Clerics of deities who are associated with a particular weapon (as St. Cuthbert is known for his mace and Thor for his hammer) make this spell’s effect resemble that weapon.
Another Spiritual Weapon token
“Effect resemble.” The shape and appearance of the SW is a “spell effect,” not actual substance.
Also, it’s an Evocation spell, one to “manipulate magical energy to produce a desired effect”; it is not a Conjuration which “involve the transportation of objects” or a Transmutation which can “change the properties of a … object.” Again, no object, just effect.
Remember that deconstruction mantra? If this was summoning a magical zap bolt that flitted about the field of combat, it would clearly not be thought of as a magical weapon. That’s basically what Spiritual Weapon is, a spell that resembles an actual weapon because that’s cool.
Can someone hold onto the Spiritual Weapon as it’s moved and essentially fly like Thor?
(People have actually asked this question.)
No. As just noted, the SW is a spectral weapon. It has no substance to grasp or hold onto. It invokes Force damage, but you can’t grab onto that.
Can a person move through the square occupied by a Spiritual Weapon?
Yes. The rules about moving through squares occupied by other creatures only apply to creatures. The Spiritual Weapon is not a creature. It has no substance to block someone, only doing Force damage when it attacks (which, to make it worse, it can’t do during the part of a round when someone would be moving through its square).
Now, that said, a lot of people would be naturally hesitant to do such a thing, even if they knew the spell. So there’s some role-playing involved here, and I’d suggest the average peasant / Kobold / etc. would just sort of naturally avoid running through a square occupied by a mystical floating weapon (or a spectral appearance of same) unless they had no other choice.
For that matter, there’s nothing to stop a person (friend or enemy) from ending or pausing movement in the same square as the weapon, nor from the caster from moving it into an occupied square (again, either by a friend or an enemy). It would not make attacks by the Spiritual Weapon any more likely or powerful, though it might be kind of distracting.
You call forth spirits to protect you. They flit around you to a distance of 15 feet for the duration. If you are good or neutral, their spectral form appears angelic or fey (your choice). If you are evil, they appear fiendish.
Okay, that’s nice color text. I also played with it a bit in the campaign: when the player of the cleric started being affected by a magic item she was carrying, it had an impact on the appearance of her spectral spirits.
When you cast this spell, you can designate any number of creatures you can see to be unaffected by it. An affected creature’s speed is halved in the area, and when the creature enters the area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, it must make a Wisdom saving throw.
On a failed save, the creature takes 3d8 radiant damage (if you are good or neutral) or 3d8 necrotic damage (if you are evil).
So when does it actually do damage?
One question that immediately comes up about SG is when it actually attacks. It’s easy to mistakenly assume the answer is “right away,” but … nope.
You don’t take immediately damage if the spell is cast on you (with you in the area of its casting) or if it is moved over you (if the spellcaster runs up to you). As Crawford says, “creating an area of effect on a creature’s space isn’t the same as the creature entering it.”
But you do take damage if you enter the spell while it is in place, or are inside of it when your turn starts. And “entering the spell” does not have to be voluntary — a Shove or a Thunderwave can push you into the zone, and that’s considered not only legal, but, “We consider that clever play, not an imbalance, so hurl away!” Indeed, such a maneuver would lead to the target being hit twice by Spirit Guardians: once when pushed in, then again when their turn starts (unless someone yoinks them out again in the interim).
What about Line of Sight?
Spirit Guardians respects Line-of-Sight and Total Cover rule. I.e., if the circle extends through a wall, or any other cover, it is blocked.
Unlike Fireball or Stinking Cloud, which specifically call it out, Spirit Guardians will not go around a corner: they are not actual creatures flying around (which is why they can’t be attacked), but a magical effect emanating from a point (one of the corners the caster chooses). Anything not visible from that point is protected. If a potential target has only partial cover, though, they are affected (and the cover does not improve the saving throw).
In my most recent campaign, the Druid’s Moonbeam was colloquially known (well, at least by me) as the Orbital Death Laser of Doom.
It’s really not an exaggeration.
Let’s talk about Moonbeam
This is another one that has had some revising done on it since the original 5e release — so if you’re looking up material about it, make sure it’s referring to the “same” spell.
A silvery beam of pale light shines down in a 5-foot-radius, 40-foot-high Cylinder centered on a point within range [120 feet]. Until the spell ends, dim light fills the cylinder.
When a creature enters the spell’s area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, it is engulfed in ghostly flames that cause searing pain, and it must make a Constitution saving throw. It takes 2d10 radiant damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
A Shapechanger makes its saving throw with disadvantage. If it fails, it also instantly reverts to its original form and can’t assume a different form until it leaves the spell’s light.
On each of your turns after you cast this spell, you can use an action to move the beam up to 60 feet in any direction.
Moonbeam, like Lightning …
This one has some similarities to Call Lightning, but some significant differences.
Moonbeam (5′ radius) AoE token for grid combat.
Like CL, the effect is a 5-foot radius centered on a grid intersection (i.e., 4 squares). The cylinder involved is 40 feet high, but there’s no verbiage (as in CL) to indicate that if you are not in a 40-foot tall room, you can’t cast it; the height seems primarily oriented toward cases of dealing flying creatures.
While CL allows the target radius to be moved anywhere under the cloud on the caster’s turn, Moonbeam‘s cylinder can be moved by the caster (as an Action) in any direction 60 feet, as long as it remains within the 120 foot range from the caster on that turn. So while someone can run out from under CL‘s cloud (which is immobile), the Moonbeam caster could run after someone who was trying to get outside of that 120 range and move the beam on top of them again.
When they enter the cylinder during their turn (if they did not already start there).
But targets do not take damage when:
The cylinder is cast or moved onto the area where they are standing.
The spell is moved across them on its way to a different location.
Looked at another way, you’d generally see Moonbeam’s use as such:
The caster drops the Moonbeam on an opponent. The opponent takes no damage at that time.
The opponent’s next turn begins … and they take their 2d10 radiant damage. They presumably move away …
The caster’s next turn starts — and they move the Moonbeam atop the same target. Who doesn’t take damage right then, but …
Note that victims can be involuntarily moved into the cylinder by some effect (a shove, a Thunderous Blast), and this does actually count as “enters the spell’s area for the first time on a turn.”.
Entering such an area of effect needn’t be voluntary, unless a spell says otherwise.
This same arrangement holds true for a number of other AoE hazards, e.g., Blade Barrier. If it moves onto you, you don’t take immediate damage. If you move into it (even against your will), you do. And, in such a case, you’ll end up taking damage twice — when shoved in, and then at the beginning of your turn.
Note that this, too, is a Concentration spell. Between that and having to use your Action to move the Moonbeam, use of this spell is pretty much a full-time job. But the orbital death laser’s damage potential, especially against mooks, or round-over-round against bigger targets, makes all that worth it.
I won’t say that Call Lightning is an overrated spell, but it’s a spell that sounds a lot more cool and flexible and awe-inspiring than it actually turns out to be when you try to play with it (properly). It comes across as an alternative to Fireball for Druids, also a 3rd Level Conjuration, but it most certainly is not.
A storm cloud appears in the shape of a Cylinder that is 10 feet tall with a 60-foot radius, centered on a point you can see within range directly above you. The spell fails if you can’t see a point in the air where the storm cloud could appear (for example, if you are in a room that can’t accommodate the cloud).
When you cast the spell, choose a point you can see under the cloud. A bolt of lightning flashes down from the cloud to that point. Each creature within 5 feet of that point must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 3d10 lightning damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. On each of your turns until the spell ends, you can use your action to call down lightning in this way again, targeting the same point or a different one.
If you are outdoors in stormy conditions when you cast this spell, the spell gives you control over the existing storm instead of creating a new one. Under such Conditions, the spell’s damage increases by 1d10.
This one is a bit more complex than it seems, and it “suffers” by having had its text significantly updated about a some time into the 5e era; a lot of websites discussing the spell (from when 5e first launched) do not have the spell described correctly . The original text got confusing about the height of the cloud.
So, you need to be in a room or area that has at least ten feet of clearance (to accommodate the height of the cloud). As an example, my kitchen/family room ceiling is only 8 feet high. So this will be most useful out of doors, in tall caverns, or in Intentionally Impressive Rooms (throne rooms, cathedrals, etc.).
(I have seen suggests that if the room is only 10 feet high then the area concerned is all in cloud and thus can’t be seen into. That effect is not explicitly called out, and, frankly, gets into complications I’d rather avoid. If I were to do it, rather than blocking vision I’d make the area into a Dim situation, impacting Perception checks in and out, but not much more).
You don’t need quite this much space, but almost.
The rules indicate the room/space must accommodate the cloud. That means an interior room has to be not just tall enough, but wide enough to accommodate a 60-foot radius, i.e., 120 feet wide.
The cloud gets centered on a point no more than 120 feet away (a grid intersection, not a square, if you are playing on a grid), and as noted, has a radius of 60 feet.
Impress your friends!
On each turn, the caster can choose a point (again, a grid intersection, not a square), and everyone in a 5-foot radius of that point (i.e., the four squares around that intersection) get zorched. The point can be anywhere under that 60-foot radius cloud, and can be moved around (as an Action) each turn. (I would rule that any area to be zorched must be under the cloud.)
It’s a Concentration spell, so you can keep it going for up to 10 minutes, or until someone figures out you’re the one doing it and starts trying to break your concentration.
Call Lightning vs. Fireball
I mean, this doesn’t have to be a competition … but, frankly, the subject is going to come up.
Advantages of Call Lightning
Lasts for 10 minutes (of Concentration)
You can hit the same target every. single. round. That’s a lot of 3d10s over 10 minutes.
Works anywhere under a 60 foot radius
Range is only 120 feet, but with a 60 foot radius from that point.
Lightning damage is less resisted than fire.
Advantages of Fireball
8d6 beats 3d10 (the first time).
Can be cast anywhere, not just in a space that will fit a cloud 10 feet high and 120 feet across.
Hits its entire area upon casting.
Range is 150 feet (but only a 20 foot radius from that point).
LoS not necessary for effect; can affect targets around a corner.
Can set stuff on fire.
Call it anecdata, but during a 2½ year weekly campaign, our Druid had an opportunity to cast Call Lightning maybe … twice? Whereas our Sorcerer let loose with a Fireball at least every second or third session.
That said, if the opportunity does arise, and if it’s thematically proper to the character, Call Lightning can be a ton of fun to cast.
It’s a classic, so much so that it’s inspired a dozen memes. It’s every magic-user’s favorite 3rd Level spell: Fireball!
So, what does that bad boy look like?
A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose within range and then blossoms with a low roar into an explosion of flame.
Each creature in a 20-foot-radius sphere centered on that point must make a Dexterity saving throw. A target takes 8d6 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
The fire spreads around corners.
It ignites flammable objects in the area that aren’t being worn or carried.
What’s not to like? Hitting everyone in a large radius with 8d6 of fire damage? It is Teh Awesome.
Of course, Fire is one of the most commonly resisted damage types (largely “thanks” to Fireball), and the save is on DEXterity, which is something a lot of bad guys have in abundance.
But, still, it’s pretty damned amazing. No wonder all the spellcasters cannot wait to get it, and then to use it.
So let’s talk about the rules.
The Rules of Fireball
Fireball has, traditionally in D&D, been a debate about physics, calculating the volume of the fireball, then the volume of the room, then figuring out the blowback if the latter is smaller than the former, etc.
5e has simplified this. Though the spell talks about an “explosion of flame,” the consensus is that, RAW, it acts more like a volume that is suddenly filled with roiling flame, as long as there is an open channel within range.
There’s no ka-boom that roars down the hallway like in Backdraft.
Walls and doors, etc., block the effect.
All this does mean that Fireball can affect folk out of line of sight. The following picture (source unknown) illustrates:
The magic user on the steps casts Fireball in the middle of the corridor ahead. (Properly speaking, spells should anchor on an intersection, not in the middle of a square or an edge. But I digress.)
The lady around the corner gets hit, even though she’s out of Line of Sight from both the caster and the center of the spell, because the fireball spreads around the corner — within the 20 foot radius.
The figure in the room, though, is not hit because the doors are all closed. If the upper door by the lady was open, though, that figure would get hit, even if it’s a lot longer to walk from the center of the spell to that figure than 20 feet.
Fireball AoE template
(I’ve seen some suggestion that the line-of-explosion has to go through full squares; that seems to be a DM call, though. Under that suggestion, the figure in the room would not get hit if the upper door was open, because the effect has to go through half-squares. This gets solved, though, by using a squares template, especially on a VTT, rather than drawing a circle.)
(And, no, we’re not going to worry, for purpose of area of effect, whether the doors catch on fire and burn through.)
As a DM, I really dislike prophecy / fortune-telling / prognostication spells. Letting the players know something about what’s coming, when something is coming, feels like a horrible idea. And if I have to decided on the fly if something is going to be coming … then it’s even worse.
… sweetie.
Don’t make me Augury. You wouldn’t like me when I’m Augury.
In the case of my most recent campaign, it was about our druid and his Augury spell (PHB 215-16):
By casting […] you receive an omen from an otherworldly entity about the results of a specific course of action that you plan to take within the next 30 minutes. The DM chooses from the following possible omens:
Weal, for good results
Woe, for bad results
Weal and woe, for both good and bad results
Nothing, for results that aren’t especially good or bad
The spell doesn’t take into account any possible circumstances that might change the outcome, such as the casting of additional Spells or the loss or gain of a companion.
We dithered a bit over whether this spell was focused on actions taken in the near term (or started in the near term?), the results in the near term, or both. A lot of people also have this problem, because it’s, honestly, a poorly worded spell.
Other groups have had questions come up around, say, results for whom (the caster? the party? an identified individual?). If going down this path is going to help the caster get their reward from the sheriff, but also lead to another party member’s arch-nemesis getting a shot at them, what are the results?
Or results from the perspective of whom (the caster? the spell’s otherworldly entity?). If the party is thinking of attacking the, oh, let’s say a lich, a goal a LG deity might wholly support, even if it’s certain death for the players … how does Augury turn out?
The spell is about “the results of a specific course of action that you plan to take within the next 30 minutes“.
While some interpret this as “only things you are doing and have results in the next 30 minutes,” I think there is room there for not just actions, but a course of actions which is initiated within that 30 minutes. The course may not be completed in 30 minutes. The results may not be achieved or clear in the next 30 minutes. But Augury can, with increasing vagueness, deal with things beyond a half hour.
An (ironic) look to the past
Some folk note that the 3.5 rules were a lot more clear on this:
The augury can see into the future only about half an hour, so anything that might happen after that does not affect the result. Thus, the result might not take into account the long-term consequences of a contemplated action.
The rules lawyers then argue whether (a) that should help inform how to treat the 5e rules, or (b) the lack of such language in 5e means this restriction is no longer true. I would probably lean into the latter interpretation, as the rules are evolutionary, not de novo each edition. I think it also makes better story sense.
Some hypotheticals
For the otherworldly being (i.e., the DM), the more specific and bounded the course of action and timeframe are, the clearer the results. So, “Should we go through these doors and into the dungeon beyond?” is kind of open-ended … and the augury will be more approximate.
Dungeon Door
On consideration, the DM (the otherworldly entity) knows that
The dungeon is likely to take several hours.
The first room, even the first 30 minutes of rooms, are easy-peasy.
The dragon at the end will be hard, even dangerous, but the treasure is pretty awesome.
The Augury would probably show Weal, for that treasure that lies at the foreseeable end of the course of action you are beginning in the next thirty minutes, even if the road may be bumpy to get there.
But … if the dragon was knowably (by the otherworldly being) of a CR that would quite likely lead to a partial or total party kill, then even if the path to it was some hours long, an Augury should show Woe.
In other words, it’s not just a “am I safe for the next 30 minutes?” spell, but “are my plans being initiated right now leading to significant benefit or harm going forward.” The further forward, the more hazy. And it’s not open-ended: “Yes, if you set off on this quest in the next 30 minutes then, at the end of your life in fifty years, you will look back on this day in pride, and your deity will reward you in the afterlife” is beyond the spell’s scope.
So let me frame the generic question this way: “Will this specific course of action I am taking lead most proximately to my being benefited or harmed?” That proximity may be beyond the thirty minutes. And the coupling of the dragon and the treasure she sits on may lead to a Weal and Woe answer. But it won’t be a “Yes, you will get through rooms 1-5 of the dungeon and find 50gp there, so definitely Weal, but, whoa, room 6 is gonna be a hot mess for you, but that’s more than 30 minutes out, so further deponent sayeth not!”
Another example: “Should I pick up this idol?” The idol is secretly cursed to draw attacking undead to you at the next New Moon, which is a week away. What should the Augury say?
I’d have it say Woe, even if the results aren’t within the next 30 minutes. On the other hand, if the idol was necessary to get into the Castle Arrgh, the next big step on the quest, then I’d give a Weal and Woe result; I might even do that if the curse drew attackers right now, because the proximate Woe is balanced by a greater later Weal. (I might also phrase it as “Woe and Weal,” to give some sense of the sequence.)
What about results that depend on die rolls? That one gets (ha!) dicier. Some folk argue that the spell assumes success (“We are going to sneak past the guards and find the plans in the leader’s tent — Weal or Woe?”), but if the DM thinks that highly unlikely due to the factors unknown to the players (a guard with a really high Perception), what to do?
In that case the DM should press to frame this into the specific questions, either (a) “We are going to sneak past the guards” → Woe) or (b) “We are going to look for the plans in the leader’s tent” → Weal.
In some cases, where everything hinges on a particular die roll (specifics good!), I might let the player make that roll in advance and so determine Weal or Woe. But in general, the spell itself demurs from “possible circumstances that might change the outcome”. The DM usually has to go with the probability curves. And if the players question it later when the Weal result turns pear-shaped? Well, even an otherworldly entity isn’t omniscient.
Maybe a metaphor will help
Here’s a final metaphor: Weal or Woe is like an elevation climb on a road. “Will this road climb high?”
The clearest answer is how the trail is right now … but there might be a hill in the near distance that’s visible, or a vale … and a taller mountain, seen hazily, beyond that.
The more explicit the question, the closer the proximity, the clearer the answer; the further away, the hazier the answer, so that specifics become generalities, and the chance of Wealand Woe (“you will go uphill, and you will go downhill”) becomes greater.
So whose Augury is it, anyway?
Is the Augury from the perspective of the caster, the party, the otherworldly entity (patron? deity?) of the caster, or what? What determines a “good” vs “bad” result?
It seems to me that it’s from the perspective of the person casting the Augury. And it’s how they will feel about it at the time of the result, not some sort of objective measure (HP left, gold pieces in pocket, etc.). Maybe Weal means the player losing at a gambling bet, but learning that the loss goes to feed some orphans, evocative of the player’s origin story. Or maybe Weal means returning the artifact to their deity’s temple, even if they lost one of the party members along the way. Or Woe means losing that party member only to gain a treasure, and contemplating on the meaninglessness of gold against their value of friendship. (Or maybe those are a blend of Weal and Woe.)
Those are complex activities to fit in the scope of an Augury, but they are offered as edge cases.
That all requires a bit of understanding about the character. Do they value their deity’s goals above their own comfort, or even survival? How do they feel about loyalty to the party, vs personal gain? Ultimately, it’s about what they value.
So, yes, it’s more difficult than a simple XP/HP vs GP comparison, but that’s also life.
A couple more hypotheticals
Example. “Should we camp here where it’s safe, rather than keep going?”
Effects: The party is saved from a dangerous encounter down the road with orcs, but without the party’s intervention, the orcs kill their hostages, whose bodies will be found on the road the next day by the party.
Augury result: I would argue Weal and Woe … probably. If it’s an easy encounter, then it would be just Woe (the character was never in real danger, and something they would value, innocent lives, was lost). If it was a convention of liches, not orcs, and the hostages were dead regardless, it would be Weal (you’re alive, buddy, and can potentially do something about the bad guys later). A particularly Good-aligned caster might get results leaning to Woe (personal survival is less important than saving lives), while Neutral or Evil one might be focused on Weal.
Example: “Should the Rogue go into town to find out whether the caravan has come through?”
Effects: The Rogue is likely to be arrested upon setting foot in town for shenanigans the last time there, and be thrown into the clink overnight. The caster has previously opined that the Rogue needs a comeuppance. Also, in jail, the Rogue will find out about the caravan, before being released the next day.
Augury result: Weal. Yeah, the Rogue is going to be pissed at the outcome (“Even the bedbugs had bedbugs!”), but the caster is happy about both the poetic justice and the intel being gathered.
Is there a limit on the number of spells you can cast on your turn? There’s no rule that says you can cast only X number of spells on your turn, but there are some practical limits. The main limiting factor is your Action. Most spells require an Action to cast, and unless you use a feature like the Fighter’s Action Surge, you have only one action on your turn.
By default, you can, pragmatically, cast one normal spell per turn, using the Cast a Spell Action. Most spells have a casting time of 1 Action. Easy peasy, right?
But what about spells that you can cast as a Bonus Action? There aren’t many, but they say it right in the spell timing. (It’s worth noting “Action” and “Bonus Action” are not interchangeable; if something is one, it cannot be done as the other.) So if you cast a Bonus Action spell, can you then cast a regular Action spell?
Bonus Action
A spell cast with a Bonus Action is especially swift. You must use a Bonus Action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven’t already taken a Bonus Action this turn. You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 Action.
If you want to Cast a Spell that has a casting time of 1 Bonus Action, remember that you can’t cast any other spells before or after it on the same turn, except for cantrips with a casting time of 1 Action.
So, if you cast a spell, such as Healing Word, with a Bonus Action timing, you can cast another spell with your Action, but that other spell must be a cantrip, not a levelled spell.
But what about Sorcerers?
Sorcerers have a metamagic tool, though, called Quickened Spell.
Quickened Spell
When you Cast a Spell that has a casting time of 1 Action, you can spend 2 Sorcery Points to change the casting time to 1 Bonus Action for this casting.
So that lets you cast a levelled spell of 1 Action casting as a Bonus Action instead. But that doesn’t get rid of the limitation above: “If you want to Cast a Spell that has a casting time of 1 Bonus Action, remember that you can’t cast any other Spells before or after it on the same turn, except for cantrips with a casting time of 1 action.”
Does Quickened Spell allow a sorcerer to cast two spells a round of 1st level or higher?
No, the sorcerer must follow the rule for casting a spell as a Bonus Action and casting another spell on the same turn; the other spell must be a cantrip with a casting time of 1 Action.
Along this line, there is an Epic Boon that allows a spell you know to be turned into a Bonus Action spell permanently. But we needn’t delve into that right now …
Unless noted otherwise, the Bonus Action can go before or after the Action, but remember that you can only cast something as a Bonus Action if that’s its timing in the spell book, or if you use Quickened Spell to cast it.
But what about spells that give Bonus Actions?
If a spell gives you a Bonus Action, using that Bonus Action does not trigger this limitation effect (because you aren’t casting the spell in the Bonus Action). For example.
The rule on casting a spell as a Bonus Action (see PH, 202) applies only on the turn you cast the spell. For example, Spiritual Weapon can be cast as a Bonus Action, and it lasts for 1 minute. On the turn you cast it, you can’t cast another spell before or after it, unless that spell is a cantrip with a casting time of 1 Action.
Until Spiritual Weapon ends, it gives you the option of controlling its spectral weapon as a Bonus Action. That Bonus Action does not involve casting a spell, despite the fact that it’s granted by a spell, so you can control the weapon and cast whatever spell you like on the same turn.
But what about Action Surge?
One further edge exception to this is if you are a spellcaster who’s taken a couple of levels of Fighter (or are doing the Eldritch Knight fighter subclass).
Action Surge
Starting at 2nd Level, you can push yourself beyond your normal limits for a moment. On your turn, you can take one additional Action.
If you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
If you also cast a Bonus Action spell of some sort, though, those regular Action spells would be limited to cantrips (both of them). Because, again,
If you want to Cast a Spell that has a casting time of 1 Bonus Action, remember that you can’t cast any other spells before or after it on the same turn, except for cantrips with a casting time of 1 Action.
Well, then, what about Reaction Spells?
The rules about spellcasting actions also get bumped about by Reaction spells. Some spells (such as Shield) can be cast as a Reaction. You only get one Reaction per round, and Reactions (to others’ actions) usually take place outside of your turn. But … not always.
Reaction Timing
Certain game features let you take a special action, called a Reaction, in response to some event. Making Opportunity Attacks and casting the Shield spell are two typical uses of Reactions. If you’re unsure when a Reaction occurs in relation to its trigger, here’s the rule: the Reaction happens after its trigger completes, unless the description of the Reaction explicitly says otherwise.
Once you take a Reaction, you can’t take another one until the start of your next turn.
Reactions
Some spells can be cast as Reactions. These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event. If a spell can be cast as a Reaction, the spell description tells you exactly when you can do so.
There are some weird edge cases where you might end up using a Reaction spell on your own turn. E.g., on my turn …
I Cast a Spell Fireball at the orcs.
I take a step forward, coming into range of the enemy wizard.
The enemy wizard fires off his Readied action of “Cast a Spell Magic Missile If I Step Within Range.”
I React with a Shield spell.
I react on my own turn, and that’s fine. And there’s no problem with effectively my casting two spells (my Action and my Reaction) because there’s no limitation on that; none of the conditions discussed above come into play because this doesn’t involve a Bonus Action.
But consider this case:
I use a Bonus Action to cast a Shillelagh cantrip.
I Cast a Spell Flame Bolt cantrip at the orcs (since I have already cast as a Bonus Action, I can only do a cantrip as my Cast a Spell action).
I take a step forward, coming into range of that enemy wizard.
The enemy wizard fires off his Readied action of “Cast Magic Missile If I Step Within Range.”
I React with a Shield spell … but I can’t.
Because Shield is not a cantrip and because I cast a Bonus Action spell and I can’t cast another leveled spell on my turn once I’ve done that. Again, as the rules say, once you’ve cast a spell as your Bonus Action, “You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.” That includes Reactions on my turn, just like it includes the second Action in an Action Surge.
If the enemy wizard acted right after my turn and fired the Magic Missile, then the Shield could be cast as a Reaction just fine, because I would not be Reacting on the same turn as when I cast a Bonus Action spell. Zany, but true.
Casting a Bonus Action spell does preclude casting a Reaction spell on the same turn.
In short …
So the answer to “How many spells can I cast on a turn?” seems to be:
Three levelled spells (Cast a Spell, Action Surge+Cast a Spell, Reaction) or
Three spells (Cast a Spell cantrip, Action Surge+Cast a Spell cantrip, Bonus Action)
If you don’t want to get into Action Surge, it looks like the number is two.
Bonus Action spells are really powerful in the flexibility they provide (more than one spell in a turn!), but they also gum up what else you can do, spellcasting-wise. Caveat incantor.
So, you need to be in a room or area that has at least ten feet of clearance (to accommodate the height of the cloud). As an example, my kitchen/family room ceiling is only 8 feet high. So this will be most useful out of doors, in tall caverns, or in Intentionally Impressive Rooms (throne rooms, cathedrals, etc.).
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So, yes, it’s more difficult than a simple XP/HP vs GP comparison, but that’s also life.