{"id":3435,"date":"2024-01-15T18:15:26","date_gmt":"2024-01-16T01:15:26","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/?p=3435"},"modified":"2025-05-29T22:18:18","modified_gmt":"2025-05-30T05:18:18","slug":"dd-5e-rules-perception-and-investigation-and-passive-perception","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/2024\/01\/dd-5e-rules-perception-and-investigation-and-passive-perception.html","title":{"rendered":"D&#038;D 5e Rules &#8211; Perception and Investigation (and Passive Perception)!"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-medium wp-image-2984\" src=\"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/Know-the-rules-300x196.webp\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 85vw, 300px\" srcset=\"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/Know-the-rules-300x196.webp 300w, https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/Know-the-rules-650x425.webp 650w, https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/Know-the-rules-768x502.webp 768w, https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/Know-the-rules-1200x784.webp 1200w, https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/Know-the-rules.webp 1300w\" alt=\"Know the Rules\" width=\"300\" height=\"196\" \/><em><a href=\"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/2022\/09\/dd-5e-rules-a-prologue.html\">Part of an ongoing series of <strong>5e (2014)<\/strong> Rules notes.<\/a>\u00a0 <span style=\"color: #800000;\">See the end of the post for notes on <strong>5.5e (2024)<\/strong> rules.<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n<h1>The Vagueness of Simplicity<\/h1>\n<p>Once upon a time D&amp;D had things like &#8220;Detect Traps&#8221; and &#8220;Disarm Traps&#8221; and lots of other very specialized skills for spotting and understanding and doing things about hidden things, and dangerous things, and dangerous\u00a0<i>and<\/i>\u00a0hidden things.<\/p>\n<p>5e&#8217;s mechanics are arguably simpler and cleaner and more straightforward &#8230; but understanding\u00a0<em>when you should use them <\/em>is definitely <em>not.\u00a0<\/em>Questions always come up &#8230;<\/p>\n<p><em>Is this a <\/em>Perception<em> roll or an <\/em>Investigation<em> roll? Or should this be done as <\/em>Passive Perception<em>? What about <\/em>Insight<em>?<\/em><\/p>\n<p>If a module says one way or the other (&#8220;The trap can be found with a <em>Perception<\/em> roll of 13 or better&#8221;), that&#8217;s generally the way to do it. Most DMs, in lieu of that, default to their favorite.<\/p>\n<h1>Wisdom and <em>Perception<\/em><\/h1>\n<p><b><a href=\"https:\/\/www.dandwiki.com\/wiki\/5e_SRD:Wisdom\">Wisdom<\/a>\u00a0<\/b>reflects how attuned you are to the world around you, your perceptiveness and intuition. Wisdom checks are used to test that.<\/p>\n<p><em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.dandwiki.com\/wiki\/5e_SRD:Perception_Skill\"><b><u>Perception<\/u><\/b><\/a> <\/em>is a special kind of Wisdom check, used to <b>spot, hear, or detect something&#8217;s presence<\/b>, usually using natural senses, esp. if the thing looked for is obscured, hidden, or easily missed. It represents general <strong>awareness of surroundings<\/strong> and <strong>keenness of senses<\/strong>. Perception is the player\u2019s ability to spot and detect people or items; it has nothing to do with making intelligent decisions about those people or items.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>&#8220;I can hear people talking on the other side of that door.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;I&#8217;m looking for tracks.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Something is creeping forward through that brush.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;I smell something disgusting.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;I am looking for signs of a secret door.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;I think I spotted bad guys lying in wait up there.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;I heard footsteps following behind us &#8212; but I don&#8217;t see anything.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;The floor tiles in that part of the room are a little different color.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Ah, there&#8217;s the sign for the street he told us to turn on.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Wait, there&#8217;s light coming from under this stone wall; there might be something behind it.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;I need more arrows; I&#8217;m keeping my eyes open for an armorer.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;I&#8217;m searching his quarters for any paper or documents.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Ah, there are some dandelions I can use for that potion.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;At this point, I think this tunnel is passing right under the castle.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;There&#8217;s a needle trap on this chest; I&#8217;ve seen this kind of thing before.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Is there anything unusual about this room?&#8221;<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Are you attempting to hear, spot, or detect something? Are you using your senses (sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch)? Does what you&#8217;re attempting rely on awareness of the surroundings (or one focused point)? Are you attempting to merely perceive or find something, not determine a deeper, hidden message? Then it&#8217;s <em><b>Perception<\/b><\/em>.<\/p>\n<h1>Intelligence and <em>Investigation<\/em><\/h1>\n<p><b><a href=\"https:\/\/www.dandwiki.com\/wiki\/5e_SRD:Intelligence#:~:text=Intelligence%20measures%20mental,or%20deductive%20reasoning.\">Intelligence<\/a>\u00a0<\/b>measures mental acuity, accuracy of recall, and the ability to reason. Intelligence checks are used to draw on logic, deductive reasoning, memory, knowledge, and\/or education.<\/p>\n<p><em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.dandwiki.com\/wiki\/5e_SRD:Investigation_Skill\"><b><u>Investigation<\/u><\/b><\/a>:<\/em> This is the ability to <b>put together clues and make deductions<\/b>\u00a0the others wouldn\u2019t make. E.g. &#8230;<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>&#8220;There should be a hidden panel right there.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;This wound was caused by a stiletto.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;He&#8217;d want his magic wand close at hand in case his pursuers found him. I&#8217;m going to look in the bedding and side table.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Are any of the books in this book case levers for a secret door?&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;That&#8217;s the point where the tunnel is most likely to collapse.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;It took me a while, but I found where this scroll refers to an item in our quest.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;What do I think this room was used for?&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Good spotting those scratches on the floor. Here&#8217;s what I think they mean.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;I go through the files to see if they tell us who the wizard&#8217;s father is.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;That patch of floor you pointed out &#8230; it looks like if you step there, it will depress and, I suspect, trigger a trap.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;How large of a creature made these tracks?&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;I&#8217;ve never seen a trap like that before. Let&#8217;s figure out how you can disarm it.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;The baron is incredibly vain. I&#8217;m going to focus my search for the map behind his giant portrait.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Can I figure out <em>why<\/em> the shopkeeper is so angry?&#8221; (That he\u00a0<em>is<\/em> angry is, if needed, an <em>Insight<\/em> roll.)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Just\u00a0<i>trying to find something<\/i>\u00a0is not an <em>Investigation<\/em>; it&#8217;s <em>Perception<\/em>.\u00a0<b>Using what is obvious (or has been <em>Perceived<\/em> by you or someone else) to figure something out is <em>Investigation<\/em><\/b>.<\/p>\n<h1><em>Investigation<\/em> and <em>Perception<\/em><\/h1>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/01\/Sherlock.webp\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-medium wp-image-4296\" src=\"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/01\/Sherlock-225x300.webp\" alt=\"Sherlock (Benedict Cumberbatch)\" width=\"225\" height=\"300\" srcset=\"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/01\/Sherlock-225x300.webp 225w, https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/01\/Sherlock.webp 360w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 225px) 85vw, 225px\" \/><\/a>Here&#8217;s an example. Think about Sherlock Holmes (we&#8217;ll focus on the Benedict Cumberbatch <em>Sherlock<\/em> version).<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;d argue that Sherlock isn&#8217;t great at\u00a0<em>Perception.<\/em>\u00a0 I mean, he notices a lot of stuff, but it&#8217;s generally not\u00a0<em>hidden<\/em> stuff.\u00a0 The lipstick on this, the scratches on that, the inscription on something else &#8212; they are all visible to everyone in the room. That&#8217;s half the gag: everyone has seen all the clues that he has, but &#8230;<\/p>\n<p>His\u00a0<em>Investigation<\/em> is off the charts. He takes all those\u00a0<em>Perceived<\/em> things and correlates them into an unbelievable set of conclusions. &#8220;The was a depressed banker who took swimming lessons and enjoyed old\u00a0<em>EastEnders<\/em> reruns. What? Isn&#8217;t it obvious?&#8221; At which point he rattles off the <em>Perceived<\/em> items that everyone has seen (zoom in camera) and how it all makes sense.<\/p>\n<p>Sherlock&#8217;s\u00a0<em>Perception\u00a0<\/em>is average, but his\u00a0<em>Investigation<\/em> is awesome &#8212; which makes sense with his Wisdom being mediocre but his Intelligence being pegged at 20.<\/p>\n<p>Just because you can\u00a0<em><b>Perceive\u00a0<\/b><\/em>a clue, doesn\u2019t mean you can understand it; that\u2019s where\u00a0<em><b>Investigation\u00a0<\/b><\/em>comes in.\u00a0<em><b>Perception\u00a0<\/b><\/em>might notice small holes in the wall.\u00a0<b><em>Investigation<\/em>\u00a0<\/b>would determine they are a dart trap &#8212; or perhaps vents allowing a door to close, or recessed buttons to open a secret panel.<\/p>\n<p>The <a href=\"https:\/\/rpg.stackexchange.com\/questions\/108491\/which-saves-oppose-which-conditions#:~:text=INTELLIGENCE%20CHECK%20VS.%20WISDOM%20CHECK\">DMG, p 238<\/a>, also notes:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>If you have trouble deciding whether to call for an Intelligence or a Wisdom check to determine whether a character notices something, think of it in terms of what a very high or low score in those two abilities might mean.<\/p>\n<p>A character with a high Wisdom but low Intelligence is\u00a0<b>aware of the surroundings but is bad at interpreting what things mean<\/b>. The character might spot that one section of a wall is clean and dusty compared to the others, but he or she wouldn\u2019t necessarily make the deduction that a secret door is there.<\/p>\n<p>In contrast, a character with high Intelligence and low Wisdom is probably\u00a0<b>oblivious but clever<\/b>. The character might not spot the clean section of wall but, if asked about it, could immediately deduce why it\u2019s clean.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Wisdom<\/strong> checks allow characters to <em>perceive what is around them<\/em> (the wall is clean here), while <strong>Intelligence<\/strong> checks <em>answer why things are that way<\/em> (there\u2019s probably a secret door).<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Ideally, one would have someone with\u00a0<b>high <em>Perception<\/em> to find things<\/b>, and then someone with\u00a0<b>high <em>Investigation<\/em>* to understand<\/b>\u00a0what those things mean.<\/p>\n<p><sup>*Or other INT-based Ability.<\/sup><\/p>\n<p>Another point to consider: the underlying question from the GM should always be,\u00a0<i>&#8220;What is your character doing?&#8221;<\/i>\u00a0&#8220;I&#8217;m searching the chamber&#8221; is perhaps too vague &#8212; are you going along and tapping all the walls? Are you standing in the middle and getting a sense of the layout of things? Are you lifting up each crate, or rifling through each drawer? What are you searching for, and how are you trying to find it? That can make clear if you are Investigating or Perceiving (and affect what a successful roll means).<\/p>\n<h1>However &#8230;<\/h1>\n<p>And all that said, it&#8217;s important\u00a0<strong><i>not to make things too cumbersome<\/i><\/strong>. &#8220;All right, Bob, make a <em>Perception<\/em> roll to see if there&#8217;s something off about that chest lock. Okay, Susan, you&#8217;ll need to <em>Investigate<\/em> to identify the trap that Bob is found. Excellent, now Ted, make a <em>Dexterity (Thieves Tools)<\/em> roll to disarm it.&#8221; That&#8217;s an accurate way to do things, but also kind of clumsy. Most cases described in official materials related to traps tend to go <em>Perception<\/em>+Disarm rolls, leaving out the Investigation piece. That makes sense for normal, &#8220;obvious&#8221; traps. For more elaborate traps, that may not be the case.<\/p>\n<p>(One idea I&#8217;ve seen is letting an added <em>Investigation<\/em> check be made to gain an Advantage on the disarm.)<\/p>\n<p>And a final thought: The question is always,\u00a0<em><b>&#8220;How can we best have <span style=\"text-decoration: underline;\">fun<\/span>?&#8221;<\/b><\/em> The rules and interpretation and all should be promoting that end, not defeating it. Depending on how we see what &#8220;fun&#8221; is (challenge, competition, story, humor, simulation, etc.) may create variation, but worrying too much about &#8220;Are we following every rule to the letter, and where the rules are ambitious how can we succeed in our duty?&#8221; is not (except for the extremely LN amongst us) most likely to get us there.<\/p>\n<h1>Wait, what about <em>Insight?<\/em><\/h1>\n<p>That&#8217;s used for figuring out stuff about people and their emotions and motivations. It&#8217;s sort of like\u00a0<em>Perception<\/em> for psychology.\u00a0 Read more about it <a href=\"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/2023\/12\/dd-5e-rules-insight.html\">here<\/a>.<\/p>\n<h1>References<\/h1>\n<p>Here are some places to look for more information, including some good web pages for reference (much of the material there has soaked into the above):<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.dndbeyond.com\/sources\/basic-rules\/using-ability-scores#finding-a-hidden-object\">PHB 178 &#8220;Finding as Hidden Object&#8221; green box<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/halflinghobbies.com\/understanding-perception-and-investigation-in-dd-5e\/\">https:\/\/halflinghobbies.com\/understanding-perception-and-investigation-in-dd-5e\/<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/dmsworkshop.com\/2019\/06\/21\/dnd-tips-perception-investigation\/\">http:\/\/dmsworkshop.com\/2019\/06\/21\/dnd-tips-perception-investigation\/<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/rpg.stackexchange.com\/questions\/47274\/when-is-each-skill-used-when-searching-for-hidden-objects-like-traps\/87081\">https:\/\/rpg.stackexchange.com\/questions\/47274\/when-is-each-skill-used-when-searching-for-hidden-objects-like-traps\/87081<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/restenford.com\/investigation-insight-and-perception\/\">https:\/\/restenford.com\/investigation-insight-and-perception\/<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/rpg.stackexchange.com\/a\/120851\/67995\">https:\/\/rpg.stackexchange.com\/a\/120851\/67995<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h1>Bonus Topic: Passive <em>Perception<\/em> (Again, Still, Some More)<\/h1>\n<p>That there are Active and Passive versions of most skills is clear in the rules. I still find it frustrating in how Active vs Passive<em> Perception<\/em> is described and its varied applications (let&#8217;s hope the new\u00a0 2024 not-an-edition of D&amp;D gives us a bit more clarity on this <span style=\"color: #800000;\">(see below)<\/span>)<\/p>\n<p>Then <a href=\"https:\/\/www.skullsplitterdice.com\/blogs\/dnd\/passive-perception-5e\">this SkullSplitterDice article<\/a>\u00a0caught my eye, and I found it summarizes a lot of the debates and struggles I had over the concept of <em>Passive Perception<\/em> and what it means and when one can or should use it, so I&#8217;m going to walk through it and comment.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/5thsrd.org\/rules\/abilities\/ability_checks\/#:~:text=associated%20with%20Charisma.-,Passive%20Checks,-A%20passive%20check\">Passive Skill Checks<\/a>\u00a0are used, the article suggests, for three reasons:<\/p>\n<h4>1. &#8220;To gloss over a lot of time attempting the same thing over and over.&#8221;<\/h4>\n<p>Or, as it says as an example on PHB 175, <em>&#8220;Such a check can represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again.&#8221;<\/em> This is roughly like &#8220;Take 10&#8221; in D&amp;D 3.5. If there&#8217;s no cost to re-attempting (re-rolling) or failing (or consequence to the time it takes), then the Passive Skill lets the GM simply say, &#8220;Yeah, you eventually do it&#8221; if it is higher than the DC of the obstacle.<\/p>\n<p>From a Passive <em>Perception<\/em> standpoint, this would be difference between, &#8220;I am going to search the room&#8221; and &#8220;I am going to spend an hour searching and re-searching the room, because that secret door has got to be here somewhere.&#8221;\u00a0 The former would be an Active roll; the latter a Passive check.<\/p>\n<p>The problem is, if the DC is 20 and your Passive <em>Perception<\/em> is 15, you can theoretically spend forever doing it, Passively, and never find that Secret Door.<\/p>\n<p>Plus, this stops mattering with the rule on DMG 237 for &#8220;Multiple Ability Checks&#8221;:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Sometimes a character fails an ability check and wants to try again. In some cases, a character is free to do so; the only real cost is the time it takes. With enough attempts and enough time, a character should eventually succeed at the task. To speed things up, assume that\u00a0<b>a character spending ten times the normal amount of time needed to complete a task automatically succeeds<\/b>\u00a0at that task. However, no amount of repeating the check allows a character to turn an impossible task into a successful one.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>That takes a lot out of &#8220;re-rolling,&#8221; rendering this aspect of Passive Skills moot.<\/p>\n<h4>2. &#8220;To average out a lot of minor consequences.&#8221;<\/h4>\n<p>The example given here is using a Bard&#8217;s <em>Perform<\/em> as a Passive to represent how they do on any given night, rather than rolling for each hour, or each bar, or each song. (One could question, in this case, whether the consequences of a spectacular performance before the right crowd, or a complete botch-up of one before the wrong crowd, might not be so minor.)<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m not sure how to fit that into Passive <em>Perception<\/em>, however.<\/p>\n<h4>3. &#8220;To allow the DM to get check results without the players knowing about it.&#8221;<\/h4>\n<p>This always comes up, as if to trump any and all other vagueness.\u00a0 <em>&#8220;Use this, because then you don&#8217;t have to warn the players that something is up by having them roll or by your rolling behind the screen.&#8221;<\/em>\u00a0 Very meta.<\/p>\n<p>Also, very useless if the GM is using macros in a VTT like Roll20. One click and I can generate the party&#8217;s Active <em>Perception<\/em> rolls, as easily as having their Passive <em>Perceptions<\/em> on a piece of paper in front of me. (In fact, the macro I use shows the Passive and a thrown Active <em>Perception<\/em> for each player, so it&#8217;s literally the same effort for me.)<\/p>\n<p>So this use of Passive <em>Perception<\/em> doesn&#8217;t gain anything.<\/p>\n<p>All that said &#8230;<\/p>\n<p>I will add two more uses I read elsewhere about that aren&#8217;t included in the article:<\/p>\n<h4>4. To provide a basement for Active Rolls.<\/h4>\n<p>This is a weird one, and while used by a lot of people (including some <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/jeremyecrawford\/status\/1001632654918172672?lang=en\">important<\/a>\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/rpg.stackexchange.com\/a\/111749\/67995\">WotC<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.sageadvice.eu\/2018\/07\/27\/can-you-point-me-towards-a-final-adjudication-on-passive-vs-active-perception\/\">folk<\/a>), it bugs me. The idea is that if\u00a0Passive <em>Perception<\/em> is, say, 12 &#8230; you can never roll on Active <em>Perception<\/em> below a 12, because, well, if Passive <em>Perception<\/em> is what you just automatically notice, how could you Actively notice any less than that?<\/p>\n<p>I disagree, for two reasons:<\/p>\n<p>First, Passive <em>Perception<\/em> in this case is normal conscious and unconscious awareness in a situation.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>If I start peering at the bookcase looking for a crack that signals a secret door, I should very much be more likely to find it than if I just glanced around the room &#8212; but I am also less likely to notice the crack in the opposite wall.<\/li>\n<li>If I&#8217;m worried there are Orcs in the chamber ahead, I might be distracted from noticing the Roper on the ceiling above me.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>I.e., my Active <em>Perception<\/em> can definitely &#8220;roll&#8221; lower than my Passive <em>Perception<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Second, the Rogue&#8217;s\u00a0<i>Reliable Talent<\/i>\u00a0ability at 11th Level literally does this basement thing.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>By 11th level, you have refined your chosen skills until they approach perfection. Whenever you make an ability check that lets you add your proficiency bonus, you can treat a d20 roll of 9 or lower as a 10.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>That&#8217;s essentially the level of a Passive check. If we treat Passives as the basement for an Active roll, this Class Feature is meaningless. Boo.<\/p>\n<h4>5. To let monsters search for you without a die roll.<\/h4>\n<p>There is one other use case the article doesn&#8217;t mention, and, interestingly, it&#8217;s\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/5thsrd.org\/rules\/abilities\/dexterity\/#:~:text=Passive%20Perception.%20When,Perception)%20of%2014.\">the only place in the rules<\/a>\u00a0that really spells out a case of\u00a0<i>using<\/i>\u00a0Passive <em>Perception:<\/em><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>When you hide, there\u2019s a chance someone will notice you even if they aren\u2019t searching. To determine whether such a creature notices you, the DM compares your Dexterity (Stealth) check with that creature\u2019s passive Wisdom (Perception) score, which equals 10 + the creature\u2019s Wisdom modifier, as well as any other bonuses or penalties. If the creature has Advantage, add 5. For Disadvantage, subtract 5. For example, if a 1st-level character (with a Proficiency Bonus of +2) has a Wisdom of 15 (a +2 modifier) and proficiency in Perception, he or she has a passive Wisdom (Perception) of 14.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>(In general skill contests between players and opponents, 5e leans toward die rolling on the player side (for obvious feelings of having agency). While some contests are roll-vs-roll, if there is one side that will not be rolling, it will be the non-player side.)<\/p>\n<p>The question is, why use the the non-PC&#8217;s Passive\u00a0<i>Perception?<\/i> Why not have the monster roll, too? It&#8217;s literally just as easy for the DM to do that, particularly (again) when using a VTT.<\/p>\n<h2>So what does all this mean?<\/h2>\n<p>There are a lot of folk who lean heavily on using Passive skill rolls, including for <em>Perception<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>But all the above means\u00a0<b>I&#8217;m not likely as a DM to do much with Passive <em>Perception<\/em><\/b><em>\u00a0<\/em>or other Passives. They don&#8217;t add much other than letting the DM be sneaky, and I can be imperceptibly (see what I did there?) sneaky without them.<\/p>\n<p>The only thing that might change that would be if someone in my game took the <i>Observant\u00a0<\/i>feat, which adds +5 to your Passive <em>Perception<\/em> and Passive <em>Investigation<\/em>. That might make me re-evaluate all this, which I&#8217;d rather not, so I hope they don&#8217;t.<\/p>\n<h1>Bonus Topic: Other Intelligence checks<\/h1>\n<p>Intelligence <em>(Investigation)<\/em> tends to be about the here and now, figuring out present clues and circumstances to deduce and understand them. Other Intelligence abilities are more academic.<\/p>\n<p>Use\u00a0<b>Intelligence <em>(History)<\/em><\/b> to recall lore about historical events, legendary people, ancient kingdoms, wars, locations, etc.<\/p>\n<p>Use\u00a0<b>Intelligence<em> (Arcana)<\/em><\/b>\u00a0to recall lore about spells, magic items, eldritch symbols, magic traditions, planes of existence (and their inhabitants).<\/p>\n<p>Use\u00a0<b>Intelligence <em>(Religion)<\/em><\/b>\u00a0to recall lore about the gods, rites and prayers, churches, holy symbols, and cults.<\/p>\n<p>These three are largely not interchangeable, at least in terms of the info they give, though there could be some overlap. For example, imagine standing in front of a statue of a woman in regal robes and holding a staff with an interesting design on it.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><b><em>History<\/em>\u00a0<\/b>would potentially inform you of who that is, or maybe least their era or realm (based on the fashion style). The crafting of the sculpture might also provide some further information; if the statue itself is or resembles a famous one, the lore behind it might be revealed. The crown on her head, the pattern on her cloak, a national symbol on a necklace could provide clues.<\/li>\n<li><em><b>Arcana\u00a0<\/b><\/em>could tell you about that staff and its history and abilities. Or it might recognize who the figure is if they were a ground-breaking spell-caster or researcher. Their gloves might have warding symbols against fire, indicating who their opponents were. If they are in the midst of spell-casting (showing a somatic element), that might be identifiable as well.<\/li>\n<li><b><em>Religion<\/em>\u00a0<\/b>might inform you about that holy symbol woven into their robes, or if this matches a recorded form of a deity. It might also tell you if their stance or garb matches a particular faith practice or ritual, with possible further info (including time and place) stemming from that.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Also, of course, use\u00a0<b>Intelligence <em>(Nature)<\/em><\/b>\u00a0to recall lore about terrain, plants, animals, weather, and natural cycles. That might not help with the statue &#8230; except it could assist with recognizing the stone and where it&#8217;s from, or how the wear pattern indicates an age, or even, if creatures or plants are depicted in the statue (the flowers at her feet, the dragonet sitting on her shoulder) provide information about the time or place being referenced.<\/p>\n<h1><span style=\"color: #800000;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/dnd-55-2024-logo.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-medium wp-image-4197\" src=\"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/dnd-55-2024-logo-208x300.png\" alt=\"dnd 5.5\/2024\" width=\"208\" height=\"300\" srcset=\"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/dnd-55-2024-logo-208x300.png 208w, https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/dnd-55-2024-logo.png 215w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 208px) 85vw, 208px\" \/><\/a>Does any of this actually get better or easier in 5.5e?<\/span><\/h1>\n<p><span style=\"color: #800000;\">5.5e (2024) does some shuffling of the deck chairs in ways that might be helpful, but I guarantee people will still get these things mixed up.<\/span><\/p>\n<h4><span style=\"color: #800000;\">Definitions<\/span><\/h4>\n<p><span style=\"color: #800000;\">In the PHB Skills list, we have:<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"color: #800000;\"><strong>Perception<\/strong> &#8211; Wisdom &#8211; Using a combination of senses, notice something that&#8217;s easy to miss.<\/span><br \/>\n<span style=\"color: #800000;\"><strong>Investigation<\/strong> &#8211; Intelligence &#8211; Find obscure information in books, or deduce how something works.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #800000;\">Okay, interesting. The Action list has a couple of interesting entries here, too.<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"color: #800000;\"><strong>Search <\/strong>&#8211; Make a Wisdom (Insight, Medicine, Perception, or Survival) check.<\/span><br \/>\n<span style=\"color: #800000;\"><strong>Study<\/strong> &#8211; Make an Intelligence (Arcana, History, Investigation, Nature, or Religion) check.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #800000;\">In 5e, these were lumped together under a single &#8220;Search&#8221; Action.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #800000;\">These are further broken out in the PHB Glossary:<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"color: #800000;\"><a style=\"color: #800000;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.dndbeyond.com\/sources\/dnd\/br-2024\/rules-glossary#SearchAction\"><strong>Search [Action]<\/strong><\/a> &#8211; When you take the Search action, you make a Wisdom check to discern something that isn&#8217;t obvious. [&#8230;] <em>Perception:<\/em> Concealed creature or object.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #800000;\"><a style=\"color: #800000;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.dndbeyond.com\/sources\/dnd\/br-2024\/rules-glossary#StudyAction\"><strong>Study [Action]<\/strong><\/a> &#8211; When you take the Study action, you make an Intelligence check to study your\u00a0 memory, a book, a clue, or another source of knowledge and call to mind an important piece of information about it. [&#8230;] <em>Investigation:<\/em> Traps, ciphers, riddles, and gadgetry.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #800000;\">That&#8217;s a little strange for <em>Investigation<\/em>, but, okay.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #800000;\">There&#8217;s a separate Glossary entry for <em><a style=\"color: #800000;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.dndbeyond.com\/sources\/dnd\/br-2024\/rules-glossary#PassivePerception\">Passive Perception<\/a>:\u00a0<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p data-content-chunk-id=\"d15dd55e-d253-4a5a-a26f-d387730812c7\"><span style=\"color: #800000;\">Passive <em>Perception<\/em> is a score that reflects a creature\u2019s general awareness of its surroundings. The DM uses this score when determining whether a creature notices something without consciously making a Wisdom <em>(Perception)<\/em> check.<\/span><\/p>\n<p data-content-chunk-id=\"286421aa-eb1a-4cb9-8d4f-4decd673d412\"><span style=\"color: #800000;\">A creature\u2019s Passive <em>Perception<\/em> equals 10 plus the creature\u2019s Wisdom <em>(Perception)<\/em> check bonus. If the creature has\u00a0Advantage\u00a0on such checks, increase the score by 5. If the creature has\u00a0Disadvantage\u00a0on them, decrease the score by 5. For example, a level 1 character with a Wisdom of 15 and proficiency in <em>Perception<\/em> has a Passive <em>Perception<\/em> of 14 (10 + 2 + 2). If that character has Advantage on Wisdom <em>(Perception)<\/em> checks, the score becomes 19.<\/span><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p data-content-chunk-id=\"286421aa-eb1a-4cb9-8d4f-4decd673d412\"><span style=\"color: #800000;\">It&#8217;s a useful distinction that Passive\u00a0<em>Perception<\/em> is about not consciously trying to <em>Perceive<\/em> something, but just generally looking around. In keeping with it being a fixed score (no rolling), the <a style=\"color: #800000;\" href=\"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/2022\/09\/dd-5e-rules-advantage-and-disadvantage.html\">Advantage \/ Disadvantage<\/a> is given a flat bonus\/penalty.<\/span><\/p>\n<h4><span style=\"color: #800000;\">Multiple Ability Checks<\/span><\/h4>\n<p><span style=\"color: #800000;\">This shows up as &#8220;Trying Again&#8221; in the 5.5e DMG (p. 28).\u00a0 The language about success being automatic at at ten times the normal duration has been dropped; instead, the DM just says how long it takes to do successfully (perhaps after a single ability check to see how &#8220;good&#8221; the overall attempt is).<\/span><\/p>\n<h4><span style=\"color: #800000;\">Checks vs Contests<\/span><\/h4>\n<p><span style=\"color: #800000;\">I didn&#8217;t go into it in a lot of detail above because it wasn&#8217;t necessary, but Wisdom <em>(Perception)<\/em> checks in 5e were often used in contests against other things, such as <em>Dexterity (Stealth).\u00a0\u00a0<\/em>5.5e tends to prefer checks against DCs. So rather than holding off on an ambushing party rolling their\u00a0<em>Stealth<\/em> vs the ambushees rolling their\u00a0<em>Perception,<\/em> folk hide with\u00a0<em>Stealth<\/em> against a DC (usually 15), and their success then serves as a DC for the approaching folks&#8217;\u00a0<em>Perception<\/em> (or Passive\u00a0<em>Perception<\/em> at some tables).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #800000;\">I don&#8217;t know if any of that will make it easier for players (and DMs) to keep track of the difference between\u00a0<em>Perception<\/em> and\u00a0<em>Investigation\u00a0<\/em>(let alone\u00a0<em><a style=\"color: #800000;\" href=\"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/2023\/12\/dd-5e-rules-insight.html\">Insight<\/a>)<\/em>, but it&#8217;s at least a fresh look at it.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Perception! Investigation! Never have skills meant to clarify the world made it so muddled.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"none","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_seopress_analysis_target_kw":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[78],"tags":[104,103],"class_list":["post-3435","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-dd-5e-rules","tag-investigation","tag-perception"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3435","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3435"}],"version-history":[{"count":6,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3435\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":4299,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3435\/revisions\/4299"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3435"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3435"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/heroes\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3435"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}