{"id":11211,"date":"2007-03-16T08:56:45","date_gmt":"2007-03-16T15:56:45","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/2007\/03\/16\/and-he-also-killed-the-radio-star-or-so-they-say.html"},"modified":"2007-03-16T08:56:45","modified_gmt":"2007-03-16T15:56:45","slug":"and_he_also_killed_the_ra","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2007\/03\/16\/and_he_also_killed_the_ra.html","title":{"rendered":"And he also killed the radio star, or so they say"},"content":{"rendered":"

It seems pretty likely that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is not a nice person, and has done some pretty nasty things. But if, after years in a CIA detention center, and then time in Gitmo, he’s now reportedly confessing<\/a> to having been behind 9\/11, various other attacks, and the beheading of Daniel Pearl … how much credence should we give that confession?<\/p>\n

The alternatives:<\/p>\n

    \n
  1. \nHe really did it.<\/li>\n
  2. \nHe was involved in some fashion, and he’s trying to make a name for himself by confessing to it (I mean, it’s not like he’s going to be set free any time soon, so he has very little to lose and much to gain.) Either he was close enough to things to give a credible story, or else he knows enough to seem credible to intelligence and political groups who really want to show that they’ve caught a Big Bad Guy.<\/li>\n
  3. \nAs #2, but he’s martyr-like covering from others.<\/li>\n
  4. \nAfter being subjected to various interrogation\/coersion techniques (insert your own euphemism), known and unknown, he’s willing to confess to anything he’s asked about (and, as noted, various folks have plenty of incentive to either believe him or pretend they do).<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

    Case #1 is the best, of course. But there’s no way to be sure. #2-3 are certainly possible, given the political pressure (within the intelligence community and in national politics) to catch a Big Bad Guy.<\/p>\n

    It’s #4 that’s the most troubling, and, of course, is the direct effect of the Administration’s tolerance and\/or encouragement of coersive techniques that quite a number of people claim are torture. A lot of people defend torture using the “ticking nuclear bomb” scenario, but that’s not what’s applying here. Torture is possibly effective if you are trying to gather information you could not get otherwise, especially in a timed circumstance. “Where is the bomb planted?” Given that the main
    \nweakness of torture is that, if effective, the subjects will tell you whatever they think you want to hear<\/em>, true or not, getting verifiable data in a vacuum is a case where it can actually work. “The bomb is under the bridge!” You can go and confirm that.<\/p>\n

    But when it comes to “Did you do X?” where there’s no way to specifically verify the info given, torture is far less useful (we’ll set aside the moral dimension for the moment, as that’s a separate and more complex issue). If I say, “Yes, I planned the bombing,” am I telling you that because I did, or because I think you want to hear that and that if I say it you’ll take me off the waterboard? Sure, there can be confirming data — but info gathered under torture can’t make the confirming data any
    \nmore certain. At some point, it comes down to the believability or credibility of the subject, and under torture, nobody’s statements are credible.<\/p>\n

    So did Khalid Sheikh Mohammed actually do the things he’s now claimed to have confessed to? Who knows? But the believability<\/em> of the information has been cast into doubt based on known cases of coersion, and in many quarters, domestic and international, it will be treated with as much credibility as the “confessions” of people from old Soviet gulags. <\/p>\n

    And that is the real shame of the Administration’s policies — even if they have the truth, nobody can be sure of it, and more and more people are willing to automatically doubt it.
    \n<\/small><\/p>\n

    (via DOF<\/a>)<\/p><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

    It seems pretty likely that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is not a nice person, and has done some pretty nasty things. But if, after years in a CIA detention center, and…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[29,17],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-11211","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-9-11","category-homeland-security"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":131175,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2016\/08\/01\/the-casual-mendacity-of-donald-trump.html","url_meta":{"origin":11211,"position":0},"title":"The casual mendacity of Donald Trump","author":"***Dave","date":"Mon 1-Aug-16 11:42am","format":false,"excerpt":"It's not that big a thing, to be honest, but it speaks volumes about the mind of Donald Trump.1. It's not enough for Trump to object to the debate schedule, he has to lie about getting a letter from the NFL complaining about it. Why? Because it makes him look\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":147693,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2019\/12\/12\/i-the-jury-2.html","url_meta":{"origin":11211,"position":1},"title":"I, the Jury","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 12-Dec-19 10:43pm","format":"aside","excerpt":"Mitch McConnell, the jury foreman in the impeachment trial is admitting that he's collaborating with defense counsel.","rel":"","context":"In "~Tweets"","block_context":{"text":"~Tweets","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/tweets"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":22665,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2011\/09\/13\/unblogged-bits-tue-13-sep-11-1730.html","url_meta":{"origin":11211,"position":2},"title":"Unblogged Bits (Tue. 13-Sep-11 1730)","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 13-Sep-11 5:30pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Links (most recent first) that caught my eye, but did not warrant full-blown blog entries .... It made my skin crawl - Huh. So ... is he confessing to non-consensual sex? Warner Bros. Copyright Clowns Take Five Spoons of Their Own Medicine [Piracy] - \"Hotfile wants a jury trial and\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Potpourri"","block_context":{"text":"Potpourri","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/potpourri"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":31528,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/11\/28\/theres-reading-between-the-lines-and-theres-making-stuff-up.html","url_meta":{"origin":11211,"position":3},"title":"There's reading between the lines, and there's making stuff up","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 28-Nov-12 7:15am","format":false,"excerpt":"This falls squarely into the latter, as famous (?) \"forensic profiler\"\u00a0\"Andrew G. Hodges, M.D.\" points out, using his \"ThoughtPrint Decoding\" technique, that Obama has admitted to election fraud, being a non-citizen, and, possibly, to the Lindbergh Baby Kidnapping:'\u201cOn election night after initial voting reports declared him the winner, Obama once\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":7752,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2005\/08\/22\/what_makes_peop.html","url_meta":{"origin":11211,"position":4},"title":"What makes people gay?","author":"***Dave","date":"Mon 22-Aug-05 6:59pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Summary of the latest science on the matter. While confessing to an academic interest in the matter, the Bigger, Unstated Question (\"Is it a choice, or is it a compulsion?\")...","rel":"","context":"In "LGBTQ &c"","block_context":{"text":"LGBTQ &c","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/gay-stuff"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":9948,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2006\/10\/06\/newts_are_small_and_slimy.html","url_meta":{"origin":11211,"position":5},"title":"Newts are small and slimy","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 6-Oct-06 9:50pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Except for the former GOP House Speaker. He's not small ... Found the Gingrich quote I was looking for -- from NPR's Morning Edition this morning: CORLEY: Before addressing a...","rel":"","context":"In "Politics & Law"","block_context":{"text":"Politics & Law","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/politics-law"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/11211","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=11211"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/11211\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=11211"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=11211"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=11211"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}