{"id":11320,"date":"2007-09-24T07:36:51","date_gmt":"2007-09-24T14:36:51","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/2007\/09\/24\/certainly.html"},"modified":"2007-09-24T07:36:51","modified_gmt":"2007-09-24T14:36:51","slug":"certainly","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2007\/09\/24\/certainly.html","title":{"rendered":"Certainly …"},"content":{"rendered":"

A bit of perspective …<\/p>\n

1st Century:
<\/strong>“Certainly Gentiles have a place in the church as do all the baptized. The debate is currently about the appropriate limits of pastoral care and the place Gentiles may hold in the offices of the church. The question is how far the traditional theology of the church lets us move in that direction.”<\/p>\n

7th Century:
<\/strong>“Certainly followers of Augustine have a place in the church as do all the baptized. The debate is currently about not only the date of Easter, but the appropriate limits of pastoral care and the place followers of Rome may hold in the offices of the church. The question is how far the Celtic tradition of the church lets us move in that direction.”<\/p>\n

12th Century:<\/strong>
“Certainly Anglo-Saxon people have a place in the church as do all the baptized. The debate is currently about the appropriate limits of pastoral care and the place Anglo-Saxon people may hold in the offices of the church. The question is how far Norman church tradition lets us move in that direction.”<\/p>\n

16th Century:
<\/strong>“Certainly recusants and dissenters have a place in the church as do all the baptized. The debate is currently about the appropriate limits of pastoral care and the place recusants and dissenters may hold in the offices of the church. The question is how far the Established Church and Crown lets us move in that direction.”<\/p>\n

18th Century:
<\/strong>“Certainly colonials have a place in the church as do all the baptized. The debate is currently about the appropriate limits of pastoral care and the place colonials may hold in the offices of the church. The question is how far Parliament lets us move in that direction.”<\/p>\n

19th Century:
<\/strong>“Certainly slaves throughout the Empire have a place in the church as do all the baptized. The debate is currently about the appropriate limits of pastoral care and the place slaves may hold in the offices of the church. The question is how far slave owners let us move in that direction.”<\/p>\n

1900 – 1960’s:
<\/strong>“Certainly African Americans have a place in the church as do all the baptized. The debate is currently about the appropriate limits of pastoral care and the place African Americans may hold in the offices of the church. The question is how far white American tradition lets us move in that direction.”<\/p>\n

1970’s:
<\/strong>“Certainly women have a place in the church as do all the baptized. The debate is currently about the appropriate limits of pastoral care and the place women may hold in offices of the church. The question is how far the traditional patriarchial theology of the church lets us move in that direction.”<\/p>\n

21st Century:<\/strong>
“Certainly gay and lesbian people have a place in the church as do all the baptized. The debate is currently about the appropriate limits of pastoral care and the place gay and lesbian people may hold in the offices of the church. The question is how far the traditional theology of the church lets us move in that direction.” (The Most Reverend and Right Honorable Rowan Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury, 21 September AD 2007, New Orleans, LA, USA<\/em>)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

<\/p>\n

(by Paul Woodrum, via Fr Jake<\/a>)<\/p>\n

<\/small><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

A bit of perspective … 1st Century: “Certainly Gentiles have a place in the church as do all the baptized. The debate is currently about the appropriate limits of pastoral…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[27],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-11320","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-religion"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":7259,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2005\/04\/13\/more_anglican_c.html","url_meta":{"origin":11320,"position":0},"title":"More Anglican Communion brinksmanship","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 13-Apr-05 3:55pm","format":false,"excerpt":"While the Anglican Communion has been rent with divisions over issues of human sexuality, and the actions of the Episcopal Church and the Church of Canada on that subject, one...","rel":"","context":"In "Religion"","block_context":{"text":"Religion","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/religion"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":14690,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2009\/05\/04\/at-least-the-mormons-just-do-it-on-paper.html","url_meta":{"origin":11320,"position":1},"title":"At least the Mormons just do it on paper","author":"***Dave","date":"Mon 4-May-09 1:38pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Bizarro story from Colorado Springs: Springs church, school clash over proselytizing - The Denver Post\u00a0 COLORADO SPRINGS \u2014 Representatives of a local Christian church tried to lure a seventh-grader at Russell Middle School into a church van last week, school district officials said. As a result, the principal sent students\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Religion"","block_context":{"text":"Religion","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/religion"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":50096,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/04\/16\/on-denominations-and-non-denominations.html","url_meta":{"origin":11320,"position":2},"title":"On denominations and non-denominations","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 16-Apr-15 10:54am","format":false,"excerpt":"The rise of non-denominational churches in the US seems to continue, as specific Protestant denominations both traditional (like my own Episcopal) and evangelical continue to shrink and shatter. Only the Catholics seem to be keeping up their numbers, and much of that is from immigration.This article, from a few years\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":15526,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2009\/08\/06\/neither-slave-nor-free.html","url_meta":{"origin":11320,"position":3},"title":"“… Neither slave nor free …”","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 6-Aug-09 12:22am","format":false,"excerpt":"This evening we had the honor to see Rev. Bonnie Sarah Spencer installed as Rector of St Paul's Episcopal Church in Fort Collins. Bonnie was a deacon at our parish, Good Shepherd Episcopal, when we started attending there. She was ordained to the priesthood while at Good Shepherd -- and\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Episcopal Church"","block_context":{"text":"Episcopal Church","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/religion\/religion-episcopal-church"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":11035,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2007\/04\/20\/not_everybody_limbo.html","url_meta":{"origin":11320,"position":4},"title":"(Not) Everybody Limbo!","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 20-Apr-07 3:59pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Theological ineffability from the Vatican, as the Pope proclaims that babies who die unbaptized don't necessarily end up in Limbo, but may very well go to Heaven. Maybe. It all...","rel":"","context":"In "Religion"","block_context":{"text":"Religion","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/religion"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":5527,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2004\/02\/26\/lovingway.html","url_meta":{"origin":11320,"position":5},"title":"Lovingway?","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 26-Feb-04 7:00am","format":false,"excerpt":"You have to wonder what the pastor of the \"Lovingway\" pentacostal church here in Denver was thinking when he put up that sign. The Rev. Maurice Gordon of Lovingway United...","rel":"","context":"In "Religion"","block_context":{"text":"Religion","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/religion"},"img":{"alt_text":"Signage","src":"\/blog\/images\/thess.jpg","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/11320","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=11320"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/11320\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=11320"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=11320"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=11320"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}