{"id":127887,"date":"2015-09-04T17:37:48","date_gmt":"2015-09-04T23:37:48","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/09\/04\/laws-oaths-faith-and-kim-davis.html"},"modified":"2015-09-13T12:06:21","modified_gmt":"2015-09-13T18:06:21","slug":"laws-oaths-faith-and-kim-davis","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/09\/04\/laws-oaths-faith-and-kim-davis.html","title":{"rendered":"Laws, Oaths, Faith, and Kim Davis"},"content":{"rendered":"

For those who are couching the Kim Davis debate as one of religious freedom (I'm raising an eyebrow at you, Messrs. Cruz and Huckabee), two questions:<\/p>\n

1. Should a Kentucky county clerk have been allowed to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, before Obergefell<\/i> made it legal, using the excuse of "God's authority" and his personal religious beliefs (assuming his church, for example, recognizes marriage by same-sex couples)? if so, should he have been protected from firing and\/or jail for contempt of court because he did so?<\/p>\n

2. Should a Muslim DMV manager be able to refuse to issue driver's licenses to women because of "God's authority," without fear of being fired or being jailed if a court orders him to issue such licenses?<\/p>\n

If your answers were no, then your concern is not over religious freedom in principle, but solely over religious freedom for the One True Religion® as you and Ms Davis define it. You can exit the constitutional debate out the side door, please. <\/p>\n

If your answers were yes for all these cases, then congratulations on being consistent in your application of religious freedom as trumping all other law, and welcome to the breakdown of any sort of law and order in the United States.<\/p>\n

I've also heard some folk comparing Ms Davis to Rosa Parks. To which I must ask, how did Parks' actions violate the legal and constitutional rights of others?<\/i> Is the implication that white had a right<\/i> to sit at the front of the bus that Ms Parks was violating in order to claim "special privileges"? Beyond that, did Ms Parks swear an oath of office (so help her, God) to sit at the back of the bus?<\/p>\n

Civil disobedience for a cause is an admirable thing in and of itself, but being civilly disobedient at the cost of the rights of others is a lot more problematic. Similarly, religious martyrdom can be a great and noble personal act, but it does not demonstrate that the cause you're being martyred for is a great and noble one. Suicide bombers consider themselves religious martyrs as well; Ms Davis' actions are not nearly as reprehensible as killing for the sake of one's religion, but that doesn't mean her justification is any more valid.<\/p>\n

civil disobedience and martyrdom.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

\n
\n
\n<\/a>
\nKentucky clerk jailed for defying court orders on gay marriage – BBC News<\/a><\/span>
\nA US judge orders a Kentucky official jailed for contempt of court after she has repeatedly refused to issue marriage licences to gay couples.\n<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

View on Google+<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

For those who are couching the Kim Davis debate as one of religious freedom (I'm raising an eyebrow at you, Messrs. Cruz and Huckabee), two questions: 1. Should a Kentucky county clerk have been allowed to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, before Obergefell made it legal, using the excuse of "God's authority" and his … Continue reading “Laws, Oaths, Faith, and Kim Davis”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[106,109,718,378,110],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-127887","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-plusposts","category-church-state","category-marriage-equality","category-intolerance-persecution","category-religious-zanies"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":127995,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/09\/14\/scrambling-for-an-extra-few-minutes-of-fame-martyrdom-kim-davis-edition.html","url_meta":{"origin":127887,"position":0},"title":"Scrambling for an extra few minutes of fame \/ martyrdom (Kim Davis Edition)","author":"***Dave","date":"Mon 14-Sep-15 7:21am","format":false,"excerpt":"I'm hoping the return of Kim Davis to her job and her sad, sad proclamation that she won't stand in the way of her deputies issuing marriage licenses marks the end (or at least the beginning of the end) to Ms Davis being anything more than a future trivia question\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":127888,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/09\/05\/god-is-my-strength-and-my-shield-but-not-really-a-very-good-legal-defense.html","url_meta":{"origin":127887,"position":1},"title":""God is my strength and my shield, but not really a very good legal defense"","author":"***Dave","date":"Sat 5-Sep-15 12:29am","format":false,"excerpt":"Kentucky's Rowan County Clerk, Kim Davis, has issued a statement via Liberty Counsel (http:\/\/www.lc.org\/index.cfm?PID=14102&AlertID=1965) about her jailing for defying a federal court order to issue (legal) marriage licenses to same-sex couples.I have worked in the Rowan County Clerk\u2019s office for 27 years as a Deputy Clerk and was honored to\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/09\/Gay_Marriage_Kentucky-0f2d95B15D.jpgimgmax%3D660.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/09\/Gay_Marriage_Kentucky-0f2d95B15D.jpgimgmax%3D660.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/09\/Gay_Marriage_Kentucky-0f2d95B15D.jpgimgmax%3D660.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x"},"classes":[]},{"id":52017,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/08\/01\/if-non-equality-county-clerks-are-conscientious-objectors-treat-them-as-such.html","url_meta":{"origin":127887,"position":2},"title":"If non-equality county clerks are conscientious objectors, treat them as such","author":"***Dave","date":"Sat 1-Aug-15 1:38pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Attorneys from Liberty Counsel for Kim Davis, the Kentucky county clerk who refuses to issue marriage licenses to gay couples, claim she is like a conscientious objector in wartime. '\u201cLike a noncombatant who cannot shoulder a rifle, a county clerk who cannot issue\u201d same-sex licenses \u201ccan still faithfully and devotedly\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":31925,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/12\/27\/the-perpetual-trump-of-religious-convictions.html","url_meta":{"origin":127887,"position":3},"title":"The perpetual trump of religious convictions","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 27-Dec-12 3:34pm","format":false,"excerpt":"So are people who strongly believe that divorce is not religiously allowed free to not give out marriage licenses where one or both of the applicants are divorced? \u00a0Are people who believe that God intended for the races to stay separate allowed to decline to assist marriage license applicants who\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":138881,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2019\/05\/25\/the-end-of-marriage-in-alabama-not-really.html","url_meta":{"origin":127887,"position":4},"title":"The End of Marriage in Alabama (not really)","author":"***Dave","date":"Sat 25-May-19 12:43pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Dropping most state marriage paperwork is a good thing for sketchy reasons.","rel":"","context":"In "~Tweets"","block_context":{"text":"~Tweets","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/tweets"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/06\/wedding-rings2.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":136762,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2018\/06\/16\/on-the-gop-scriptural-dedication-to-the-law-and-government.html","url_meta":{"origin":127887,"position":5},"title":"On the GOP Scriptural Dedication to the Law and Government","author":"***Dave","date":"Sat 16-Jun-18 12:53am","format":false,"excerpt":"https:\/\/twitter.com\/18965459\/status\/1007818559517409281 RT @TheDweck: Remember when Kim Davis refused to issue gay marriage licenses and Republicans were all like \u201cYou can\u2019t do that! The Bible sa\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~Tweets"","block_context":{"text":"~Tweets","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/tweets"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/127887","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=127887"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/127887\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":127971,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/127887\/revisions\/127971"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=127887"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=127887"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=127887"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}