{"id":128007,"date":"2015-09-14T23:45:32","date_gmt":"2015-09-15T05:45:32","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/09\/14\/because-the-world-needs-more-grim-humorless-serious-super-hero-movies.html"},"modified":"2015-09-15T06:41:32","modified_gmt":"2015-09-15T12:41:32","slug":"because-the-world-needs-more-grim-humorless-serious-super-hero-movies","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/09\/14\/because-the-world-needs-more-grim-humorless-serious-super-hero-movies.html","title":{"rendered":"Because the world needs more grim, humorless, serious super-hero movies"},"content":{"rendered":"

Yes, I suspect BvSDoJ will be interesting (if we are lucky), and well-crafted (ditto) … but not entertaining. Your Mileage May Vary.<\/p>\n

Note: I don't necessarily need Aquaman busting out jokes — the Batman: The Brave & the Bold<\/i> Aquaman ("Outrageous!") was a hoot, the Justice League<\/i> Aquaman was fierce and grim. There's room for both in the world.<\/p>\n

The trick, at least for me, is striking a balance: taking the material seriously, using human (or superhuman) drama and emotional stakes, but keeping some wry wit, some irony, a smidge of comic relief out there. That keeps everything from being a shouty, pouty-face slugfest.<\/p>\n

The Justice League<\/i> cartoon is illustrative of this (as is most of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, but let's focus on a DC-related property). The stories told there, especially in the Justice League Unlimited<\/i> seasons, were, on the face of them, pretty grim. Heroes in an orbiting space station, lording it over humanity, a massive laser weapon ready to smite any terrestrial foe. Human governments mistrusting — and conspiring against — those metahumans, creating contingency plans if they get out of hand, betraying their trusts. Conflicts manipulated by adversarial egos, great power struggling with great responsibility, protectors of humanity questioning whether they have gone horribly astray, or acting with zealous and misguided determination.<\/p>\n

Pretty serious stuff, right?<\/p>\n

But it's leavened<\/i> as we go along. Flash is always making dumb jokes, sometimes unintentionally. There's some soap operatic relationship issues. There are occasional mid-melee quips. There are heroes who are less-than-grim-gritty, even a little naive in their young attitudes. There are breaks from the conflicts, the devastation, the betrayals, the slugfests.<\/p>\n

And it's a cartoon. But it's not cartoonish.<\/p>\n

Look at another cartoon, Teen Titans.<\/i> There are episodes and stor lines in there that are utterly gut-wrenching. Robin's obsession over Slade. Changeling's doomed love for Terra. Raven's psychodrama over her demonic parentage. One of the first episodes was a horrifyingly grim tale of what would happen to the team if Starfire were to disappear, and the results for each of the heroes was not at all pretty.<\/p>\n

But through it all, there was a fundamental joy in the camaraderie, the teen zaniness, the innocence that made the drama more poignant and more endurable at the same time.<\/p>\n

Another non-cartoonish cartoon (something that become all the clearer when the "teen zaniness" became the only part retained in the "Teen Titans" reboot … ugh).<\/p>\n

Look at Young Justice,<\/i> the replacement (irksomely) for Teen Titans.<\/i> The darkness and threat there got awfully thick on the ground, especially in the last season. But there were always enough moments to smile at to keep it from being abysmal and unrelentingly dire.<\/p>\n

Heck, Shakespeare wrote some pretty freaking grim stuff, but he always had some comedic elements in the most dour of his plays, to keep the groundlings from crying into their beers (or throw them at the actors). Joss Whedon wrote the book on modern super-heroic tales with Buffy the Vampire-Slayer,<\/i> which played every tragic trope suitable for TV, with enough wry comments and ironic self-awareness to keep it from being too utterly depressing or grim-gritty.<\/p>\n

When I look at the clips from BvSDoJ, I see epic loss, tragedy, conflict, violence, grimdarkness that all add up to Utter Seriousness. There's not a smile to be cracked, not a joke to be made, not a quip to be tossed. It's all grand and epic and fully of people scowling and yelling and punching each other.<\/p>\n

Maybe it will be incredible. But I suspect it will be a sadly one-noted "very serious" and appeal mostly to the folk who will ignore any flaws if they can see stuff "blow up real good" because of super-heroes.<\/p>\n

I hope I'm wrong.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

\n
\n
\n<\/a>
\nJesse Eisenberg Promises Dawn of Justice Will Be “Very Serious,” Not “Cartoonish”<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

View on Google+<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Yes, I suspect BvSDoJ will be interesting (if we are lucky), and well-crafted (ditto) … but not entertaining. Your Mileage May Vary. Note: I don't necessarily need Aquaman busting out jokes — the Batman: The Brave & the Bold Aquaman ("Outrageous!") was a hoot, the Justice League Aquaman was fierce and grim. There's room for … Continue reading “Because the world needs more grim, humorless, serious super-hero movies”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_seopress_analysis_target_kw":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[106,852,525],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-128007","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-plusposts","category-dc-cinematic-univese","category-marvel-cinematic-universe"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":160106,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2023\/08\/14\/dceu-rewatch.html","url_meta":{"origin":128007,"position":0},"title":"DCEU Rewatch","author":"***Dave","date":"Mon 14-Aug-23 5:11pm","format":false,"excerpt":"A last look before the DCEU goes off to the recycle bin of movie history","rel":"","context":"In "Comics & Comic Books"","block_context":{"text":"Comics & Comic Books","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/media\/media-comics"},"img":{"alt_text":"DC logo 2016","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/DC-logo-2016.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/DC-logo-2016.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/DC-logo-2016.png?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/DC-logo-2016.png?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":155817,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2022\/01\/04\/my-movie-watching-year-in-review-2021-edition.html","url_meta":{"origin":128007,"position":1},"title":"My Movie-Watching Year in Review (2021 Edition)","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 4-Jan-22 3:37pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Not a lot of theater-going, but an MCU rewatch helped the numbers","rel":"","context":"In "Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU)"","block_context":{"text":"Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU)","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/media\/franchises\/marvel-cinematic-universe"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/movie-theater-interior-1-scaled.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/movie-theater-interior-1-scaled.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/movie-theater-interior-1-scaled.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/movie-theater-interior-1-scaled.jpg?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/movie-theater-interior-1-scaled.jpg?resize=1050%2C600&ssl=1 3x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/01\/movie-theater-interior-1-scaled.jpg?resize=1400%2C800&ssl=1 4x"},"classes":[]},{"id":49634,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/02\/20\/aquaman.html","url_meta":{"origin":128007,"position":2},"title":"Aquaman!","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 20-Feb-15 6:22am","format":false,"excerpt":"So I guess we're going with Angry Monarch Aquaman in the Justice League movies, rather than Cheerful Beach Blonde Aquaman (http:\/\/youtu.be\/lNQTw4HdzxQ). Good. Originally shared by +Raymond Cobblepot: Official Jason Momoa Aquaman photo from Zack Snyder! \u00a0 View on Google+","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/02\/B-RAWTjCcAAF81b.jpgimgmax%3D660.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":28176,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/06\/07\/warner-seems-to-be-going-big-on-comic-book-movies.html","url_meta":{"origin":128007,"position":3},"title":"Warner seems to be going big on comic book movies","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 7-Jun-12 11:09pm","format":false,"excerpt":"And they have a billion-plus reasons, Avenger-wise, for doing so.For the record, I don't see \"Aquaman\" as being intrinsically successful. With a good writer, director, talent, sure, but nothing about Aquaman makes him an automatic success.OTOH, \"Suicide Squad\" follows a cinematic model that's usually been successful (e.g., \"The Dirty Dozen\"\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/images0-focus-opensocial.googleusercontent.com\/gadgets\/proxy?container=focus&gadget=a&resize_h=100&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcomicbook.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F06%2Fsquad_second_02-216x300.jpg","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":45950,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2014\/10\/15\/dc-fleshes-out-its-movie-schedule.html","url_meta":{"origin":128007,"position":4},"title":"DC fleshes out its movie schedule","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 15-Oct-14 11:27am","format":false,"excerpt":"DC and WB are filling in the gaps and blanks in the movie schedule they previously announced. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - March 25th, 2016 Suicide Squad \u2013 August 5th, 2016 Wonder Woman - June 23rd, 2017 Justice League - November 17th, 2017 The Flash - March 23rd,\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/10\/Justice-League-New-52.jpgimgmax%3D660.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/10\/Justice-League-New-52.jpgimgmax%3D660.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/10\/Justice-League-New-52.jpgimgmax%3D660.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x"},"classes":[]},{"id":135041,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2017\/10\/09\/oh-final-trailer-justice-league.html","url_meta":{"origin":128007,"position":5},"title":"Oh, and there was a final trailer for “Justice League”","author":"***Dave","date":"Mon 9-Oct-17 10:35pm","format":false,"excerpt":"More fun than Batman v Superman, but less interesting than Wonder Woman. The interactions between the heroes is what should make this movie, not the SFX set piece battles, and I'm not sure how much of that we're seeing. Bruce and Diana acting as the \"grown ups\" for the family\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/10\/Justice-League-SDCC-Banner.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/10\/Justice-League-SDCC-Banner.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/10\/Justice-League-SDCC-Banner.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/10\/Justice-League-SDCC-Banner.jpg?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/10\/Justice-League-SDCC-Banner.jpg?resize=1050%2C600&ssl=1 3x"},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/128007","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=128007"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/128007\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":128008,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/128007\/revisions\/128008"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=128007"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=128007"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=128007"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}