{"id":128156,"date":"2015-09-25T16:00:16","date_gmt":"2015-09-25T16:00:16","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/09\/25\/when-liberty-becomes-libertine.html"},"modified":"2015-09-25T16:00:16","modified_gmt":"2015-09-25T16:00:16","slug":"when-liberty-becomes-libertine","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/09\/25\/when-liberty-becomes-libertine.html","title":{"rendered":"When Liberty Becomes Libertine"},"content":{"rendered":"

In recent years we've seen "religious freedom" as the basis for court claims about people wanting to, in fact, discriminate and use their religious beliefs to hurt other people. "If you stop me from doing something that my religion tells me I should do, then you're harshing my religious liberty mellow. First Amendment! First Amendment!"<\/p>\n

Now, I'm a big believer in the First Amendment (I belong \/ donate to a number of organizations that are staunch supporters of it). But I'm also a believer in the dual principles that (a) there are no absolute rights, and (b) your right to X freedom ends at the tip of my nose.<\/p>\n

In parallel to religious freedom claims has come a rise in using speech \/ expression freedom claims for dubious purposes (certainly in ways that would raise eyebrows among the Founders, I suppose). Citizens United<\/i> and other SCOTUS and Federal Court cases have advanced the principle of corporations having free speech rights as "people," particularly when it comes to campaign financing — itself an existential issue for American democracy. If money = speech,<\/i> then restricting spending of money is restricting speech, right? And we certainly can't have that.<\/p>\n

It was only fitting that this, then would be the next result: Kentucky legislators arguing restricting lobbyist gifts and donations is an infringement of the free speech and association rights of both lobbyists and legislators. Would you restrict how long a lobbyist can talk to a legislator? That would clearly be an imposition on free speech. How then, the argument goes, can you want to restrict spending money on meals, gifts, games, parties, boxes of cigars, automobiles, airplanes, trips to the Bahamas, or whatever? That's all speech, too! Glorious, gilded, gluttonous speech!<\/p>\n

And those reporting requirements? Well, that's monitoring<\/i> free speech. We certainly won't stand for that! Lobbyists should be welcome to give gold ingots and fine bottles of cognac below the table, just as they can whisper something in a legislator's ear. Free speech!<\/p>\n

And the ironic thing is, it's completely unclear to me that a court won't rule in their favor. The logical argument is all there, and the common sense idea that lavishing gifts and money on elected representatives gives, at the very least, the appearance<\/i> of corruption has been rejected by the highest court in the land as too abstract and problematic a concept.<\/p>\n

Abraham Lincoln is said (probably apocryphally), in defense of his wartime violations of constitutional rights and suspension of habeas corpus,<\/i> that "the Constitution is not a suicide pact." It would be ironic indeed if the nation were to be driven to final ruin, not through anarchists and political revolutionaries using free speech to undermine society, but corrupt politicians using free speech to line their own pockets.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

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\n<\/a>
\nLegislator Says Gift Ban Violates His Freedom of Speech<\/a><\/span>
\nA ban on accepting lobbyists’ invitations to parties, gifts, or payment for food infringes on Kentucky legislators’ access to people who want to help them, a lawsuit says.\n<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

View on Google+<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

In recent years we've seen "religious freedom" as the basis for court claims about people wanting to, in fact, discriminate and use their religious beliefs to hurt other people. "If you stop me from doing something that my religion tells me I should do, then you're harshing my religious liberty mellow. First Amendment! First Amendment!" … Continue reading “When Liberty Becomes Libertine”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_seopress_robots_follow":"","_seopress_robots_imageindex":"","_seopress_robots_snippet":"","_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_robots_breadcrumbs":"","_seopress_robots_freeze_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_custom_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_canonical":"","_seopress_social_fb_title":"","_seopress_social_fb_desc":"","_seopress_social_fb_img":"","_seopress_social_fb_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_height":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_title":"","_seopress_social_twitter_desc":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_height":0,"_seopress_redirections_value":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled_regex":"","_seopress_redirections_logged_status":"","_seopress_redirections_param":"","_seopress_redirections_type":0,"_seopress_analysis_target_kw":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[106],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-128156","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-plusposts"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":26893,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/03\/07\/but-some-religions-are-more-equal-than-others.html","url_meta":{"origin":128156,"position":0},"title":"But some religions are more equal than others","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 7-Mar-12 6:49pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Shorter version: Focus on the Family wants conservative Christian churches and individuals to be able to do whatever the hell they damn want -- hire, fire, build, tear down, discriminate, slander, isolate, bully, whatever -- and use their \"sincerely held religious belief\" as a shield to be allowed to do\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":130428,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2016\/04\/14\/a-religious-freedom-ruling-that-is-perfectly-right-but-utterly-wrong.html","url_meta":{"origin":128156,"position":1},"title":"A religious freedom ruling that is perfectly right but utterly wrong","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 14-Apr-16 7:20pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Pastafarianism was established as a satire of religion to show how people wanting to teach Intelligent Design were really kind of near-sighted dolts. As the judge in this case gives, as background:'FSMism is a riposte to intelligent design that began with a letter to the Kansas State Board of Education\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":51772,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/07\/17\/perhaps-it-should-be-called-the-scarlet-letter-law-instead.html","url_meta":{"origin":128156,"position":2},"title":"Perhaps it should be called the "Scarlet Letter" Law instead","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 17-Jul-15 1:54pm","format":false,"excerpt":"In the wake of the Obergefell ruling, conservatives in Congress have whipped up a lovely little bill called the \"First Amendment Defense Act\" (https:\/\/www.govtrack.us\/congress\/bills\/114\/hr2802). Under the banner of religious liberty, it basically provides a \"Get Out of Jail Free\" card for any \"person\" -- including non-profit and for-profit companies --\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":130577,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2016\/05\/03\/religious-freedom-requires-defining-religion.html","url_meta":{"origin":128156,"position":3},"title":"Religious freedom requires defining religion","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 3-May-16 7:23am","format":false,"excerpt":"Interesting article here (if not one I fully agree with) on municipalities looking more closely at facilities owned by organizations and trying to determine which ones are legitimate religious efforts, to be exempted from taxation, vs. which ones are simple commercial efforts, to be be treated (and taxed) like any\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":11362,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2007\/09\/13\/i_love_my_rights_but_im_n.html","url_meta":{"origin":128156,"position":4},"title":"“I love my rights, but I’m not sure about yours”","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 13-Sep-07 7:44am","format":false,"excerpt":"The most recent annual poll by the First Amendment Center confirms that people really don't know much about the US Constitution, and what they know they are ambiguous about,...","rel":"","context":"In "Fourth Estate"","block_context":{"text":"Fourth Estate","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/media\/fourth-estate"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/images\/american-flag.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":35168,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2013\/05\/24\/religious-liberty-religious-imposition-and-sigh-contraception.html","url_meta":{"origin":128156,"position":5},"title":"Religious liberty, religious imposition, and (sigh) contraception","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 24-May-13 11:16pm","format":false,"excerpt":"So an initial caveat first: strictly speaking denying insurance coverage is not the same as denying someone obtaining a medical service. In the case of contraceptive coverage, most (but not all ) individuals can probably pay for contraception themselves. Whether the folks for whom such a burden is financially difficult\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/128156","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=128156"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/128156\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=128156"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=128156"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=128156"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}