{"id":128327,"date":"2015-10-15T22:27:08","date_gmt":"2015-10-16T04:27:08","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/10\/15\/on-deporting-all-them-illegals.html"},"modified":"2015-11-05T11:06:36","modified_gmt":"2015-11-05T18:06:36","slug":"on-deporting-all-them-illegals","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/10\/15\/on-deporting-all-them-illegals.html","title":{"rendered":"On Deporting All Them Illegals"},"content":{"rendered":"

A tip of the hat to +<\/span>Yonatan Zunger<\/a><\/span>'s analysis of Donald Trump's plans.<\/p>\n

Originally shared by +Yonatan Zunger<\/a>:<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Shaun King asks a fair question about Donald Trump's plan to deport eleven million people over a two-year period. Answering it feels a bit like doing a sociopathic sort of "What If?," but sometimes it's good to see what's actually involved<\/i> in a policy proposal.<\/p>\n

If you want to deport all of these people, you'll have to do a few things:<\/p>\n

(1) Figure out who you want to deport.
(2) Round them up.
(3) Transport them to wherever you're deporting them to.
(4) Dump them there and get them to stay.<\/p>\n

The biggest things that probably aren't blindingly obvious are:<\/p>\n

– Identifying people is harder than it sounds, since it's not like everyone has proof of citizenship tattooed on their arms. You'll have to put people in the field, and they'll have to have a lot of leeway to deal with ambiguous cases. Which is another way of saying they need the power to decree someone an outsider and deport them.<\/p>\n

– Rounding people up is easier<\/i> than it sounds, Ben Carson to the contrary. The police have more guns, and if you're already at the point where the local field commander is willing to say "this entire neighborhood is probably deportable," it turns out that rounding people up and\/or shooting resisters isn't very challenging at all. Most people will stop shooting when you threaten to kill their families, and the ones that don't, well, you just kill them and their families.<\/p>\n

– Transporting people is much<\/i> harder than it sounds. 450,000 people per month is a lot;<\/i> even with serious packing, you can only fit about 80 people into a standard boxcar or truck; a typical modern train might have 140 boxcars or so, which means it can only transport about 11,000 people, and loading them takes time. Unfortunately, people are somewhat scattered out, so if you want this to work, you'll need to use trucks and so on to deliver people to staging areas, where you can store them for a while until a train is ready. Fortunately, there's a lot of prior art on how to concentrate people in a small space while they're getting ready to be loaded on trains.<\/p>\n

– Mass-deporting people to an area you don't control is harder than it seems, because the people who control that area are likely to object. You'd probably have to conquer and subjugate Mexico as a first step, and then set up receiving camps on the other end. Unloading areas would have to be fairly heavily armed and guarded, of course, to keep people from attacking you; the logistics are somewhat similar to the staging camps on the sending side, only you have to worry less about killing people.<\/p>\n

– Running this is going to be really expensive, so you might consider finding ways for the project to help pay for itself. So long as you have people concentrated in one place, maybe have them do labor as well? They can pay for their own deportation!<\/p>\n

So I suppose the good news is that we can answer Shaun's question fairly straightforwardly, because this has<\/i> been done before and we do know what it looks like. We don't quite have the right expertise in the US, because none of our past mass-deportation efforts were quite at this scale per month; the transatlantic slave trade moved roughly this many people over three centuries,<\/i> the Trail of Tears moved only about 16,500 people, and the internment of Japanese civilians during WWII only about 110,000. But outside the US, there's much more experience with it; probably the world's top expert on it was Adolf Eichmann (1906-1962), who ran a program very much like this which managed to move people at about this rate. <\/p>\n

Trump's team may be interested in checking him out; there's a tremendous amount written about his system, I'm sure it would be very helpful. And as I noted in a comment below, the design of this program really wasn't easy; they had to iterate through quite a lot of trial solutions before they could come up with a final one. You should always save work by studying prior art when you can.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

<\/a><\/div>\n
\n<\/a>\u00a0\n<\/div>\n

View on Google+<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

A tip of the hat to +Yonatan Zunger's analysis of Donald Trump's plans. Originally shared by +Yonatan Zunger: Shaun King asks a fair question about Donald Trump's plan to deport eleven million people over a two-year period. Answering it feels a bit like doing a sociopathic sort of "What If?," but sometimes it's good to … Continue reading “On Deporting All Them Illegals”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":128328,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_seopress_robots_follow":"","_seopress_robots_imageindex":"","_seopress_robots_snippet":"","_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_robots_breadcrumbs":"","_seopress_robots_freeze_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_custom_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_canonical":"","_seopress_social_fb_title":"","_seopress_social_fb_desc":"","_seopress_social_fb_img":"","_seopress_social_fb_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_height":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_title":"","_seopress_social_twitter_desc":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_height":0,"_seopress_redirections_value":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled_regex":"","_seopress_redirections_logged_status":"","_seopress_redirections_param":"","_seopress_redirections_type":0,"_seopress_analysis_target_kw":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[106,350,532,17,380],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-128327","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-plusposts","category-civil-liberties","category-elections-2016","category-homeland-security","category-nationalism-exceptionalism"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/10\/Screenshot+from+2015-10-15+113A523A21.pngimgmax=660.png","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":132676,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2017\/01\/27\/when-everything-is-a-priority-nothing-is-a-priority.html","url_meta":{"origin":128327,"position":0},"title":"When everything is a priority, nothing is a priority","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 27-Jan-17 12:52pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Donald Trump has insisted that he's out to deport the \"criminals\" and the worst of the worst amongst people here in the US illegally. But his new executive order around whom to prioritize for deportation ... really, ultimately, includes everyone in the US illegally.It does that by playing fast and\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":136627,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2018\/05\/29\/next-time-you-hear-about-evil-illegal-immigrant-gang-members.html","url_meta":{"origin":128327,"position":1},"title":"Next time you hear about Evil Illegal Immigrant Gang Members …","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 29-May-18 7:56pm","format":false,"excerpt":"... remember this particular case, where a judge ruled that ICE had out-and-out lied about a DACA immigrant being a gang member as a justification for deporting him -- even when plenty of evidence was presented to refute the assertion, and none was presented to support it, and ICE nevertheless\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/police-searching-young-man-in-custody.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":133667,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2017\/06\/13\/when-someone-elses-ox-is-gored-or-at-least-deported.html","url_meta":{"origin":128327,"position":2},"title":"When someone else's ox is gored (or, at least, deported)","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 13-Jun-17 5:15pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Immigrants previously convicted of crimes are being rounded up to be sent home to their native lands, now that certain technicalities have been dealt with. ICE is doing their job, right? So Trump supporters should be cheering loudly.Except in this case, the former convicts who are being detained prior to\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":132928,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2017\/02\/24\/trump-deportation-orders-are-fraught-with-problems.html","url_meta":{"origin":128327,"position":3},"title":"Trump deportation orders are fraught with problems","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 24-Feb-17 12:49pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Kicking people across the border into Mexico (even if they're not Mexican) with minimal due process ... massive expansion of internment facilities (for profit?) ... quickly expanding judges and enforcement officials ... sending local police off to hunt for suspicious brown people ... what could possibly go wrong? Donald Trump\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":128122,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/09\/21\/bringing-new-meaning-to-the-poop-deck.html","url_meta":{"origin":128327,"position":4},"title":"Bringing new meaning to "the poop deck"","author":"***Dave","date":"Mon 21-Sep-15 4:29pm","format":false,"excerpt":"And some well-needed advice on user interface design from +Yonatan Zunger via the U-1206. Originally shared by +Yonatan Zunger: A key principle in user interface design is that the normal operation of a system should be easy, and that abnormal operation should be possible only if you do it on\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":130791,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2016\/06\/03\/a-seasoned-political-comment.html","url_meta":{"origin":128327,"position":5},"title":"A seasoned political comment","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 3-Jun-16 4:00pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Heading toward the fall, all right.Maybe he was actually referring to the party's ... Originally shared by +Yonatan Zunger: I'm not actually sure whether or not Paul Ryan's phrasing here was intentional. \u00a0 View on Google+","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/06\/Screenshot%2Bfrom%2B2016-06-03%2B083A503A50.pngimgmax%3D660.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/06\/Screenshot%2Bfrom%2B2016-06-03%2B083A503A50.pngimgmax%3D660.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/06\/Screenshot%2Bfrom%2B2016-06-03%2B083A503A50.pngimgmax%3D660.png?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x"},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/128327","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=128327"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/128327\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":128585,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/128327\/revisions\/128585"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/128328"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=128327"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=128327"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=128327"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}