{"id":129671,"date":"2016-02-08T06:24:00","date_gmt":"2016-02-08T13:24:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2016\/02\/08\/you-either-allow-all-prayer-or-no-prayer-its-really-that-simple.html"},"modified":"2016-02-08T14:25:40","modified_gmt":"2016-02-08T21:25:40","slug":"you-either-allow-all-prayer-or-no-prayer-its-really-that-simple","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2016\/02\/08\/you-either-allow-all-prayer-or-no-prayer-its-really-that-simple.html","title":{"rendered":"You either allow all prayer or no prayer. It's really that simple"},"content":{"rendered":"

The WaPo headline is misleading (as a read of the article shows). The Phoenix City Council has had a long tradition of opening sessions with a prayer. Not surprisingly, those have always tended to be Christian prayers. Someone noted that actually restricting the prayers to Christian groups was a violation of the First Amendment of the Constitution. A member of the local Satanic Temple applied to get into the queue for the invocation. Rather than allow that, the City Council has voted 5-4 to replace the invocation with a moment of silence.<\/p>\n

That's all pretty straight-forward Constitutionality 101. If you are going to have government-sponsored expressions of religious faith, you cannot arbitrarily decide with religions get to make those expressions. That's the sort of thing that's kept the Satanists out … and often the Muslims … and before them the Jews … and before them the Catholics … and the Baptists … and the Quakers … and …<\/p>\n

Sadly enough, some Phoenix pols aren't happy with this solution because they think it means the "Satanists" have won against the "Christians" (despite the fact that the Satanic Temple didn't ask for the invocation to be changed to a moment of silence, but did reasonably expect to have their own prayer included as an invocation). Those politicians vow to have a citizen referendum to overturn the decision — which, presumably, will then let the city in for a protracted legal battle that will end in a lot of money being spent and much the same result.<\/p>\n

I understand not liking the message from people you don't agree with. But our Constitution explicitly protects us from people's religious or political opinions from being silenced or oppressed. That doesn't just protect the folk at the Satanic Temple; that protects everyone.<\/i><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

\n
\n
\n<\/a>
\nHow the Satanic Temple forced Phoenix lawmakers to ban public prayer<\/a><\/span>
\nThe issue came down to a controversial vote.\n<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

View on Google+<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

The WaPo headline is misleading (as a read of the article shows). The Phoenix City Council has had a long tradition of opening sessions with a prayer. Not surprisingly, those have always tended to be Christian prayers. Someone noted that actually restricting the prayers to Christian groups was a violation of the First Amendment of … Continue reading “You either allow all prayer or no prayer. It's really that simple”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[106,109],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-129671","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-plusposts","category-church-state"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":38577,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2013\/08\/27\/prayer-in-school.html","url_meta":{"origin":129671,"position":0},"title":"Prayer in School","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 27-Aug-13 5:14am","format":false,"excerpt":"It's ironic to me that the folks most likely to kvetch about all those worthless teachers and teachers unions are the ones who will then turn around and demand those teachers should be able to lead their students in prayer.Let me say, as a parent and as a Christian, I\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":130849,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2016\/06\/11\/and-theyll-know-we-are-christians-by-our-joking-invocation-of-death-curses.html","url_meta":{"origin":129671,"position":1},"title":"And they'll know we are Christians by our joking invocation of death curses","author":"***Dave","date":"Sat 11-Jun-16 2:39pm","format":false,"excerpt":"David Perdue is the GOP junior Senator from the great state of Georgia. And at the currently-running Faith and Freedom conference, he just suggested Psalm 109:8 as an appropriate prayer for Obama.'We should pray for him like Psalms 109:8 says: Let his days be few, and let another have his\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":49636,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/02\/20\/no-muslims-allowed-on-our-official-christian-day.html","url_meta":{"origin":129671,"position":2},"title":"No Muslims Allowed on Our Official Christian Day","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 20-Feb-15 11:34am","format":false,"excerpt":"That seems to have been the message from some state representatives in the North Dakota legislature, who decided that having a Muslim give the State House the opening prayer was somehow horribly inappropriate on Ash Wednesday. Because, of course, prayer in the legislature should be synchronized with the holidays of\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":41960,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2014\/05\/11\/give-them-an-inch-and-theyll-take-a-theocracy.html","url_meta":{"origin":129671,"position":3},"title":"Give them an inch and they'll take a theocracy","author":"***Dave","date":"Sun 11-May-14 11:43pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Christianists across the nation cheered the SCOTUS decision last week in Town of Greece v. Galloway about being able to open government meetings with an explicitly Christian prayer. After all, as Justice Kennedy, for the majority, optimistically pointed out, \"Our tradition assumes that adult citizens, firm in their own beliefs,\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":13429,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2008\/12\/17\/modern_donatism.html","url_meta":{"origin":129671,"position":4},"title":"Modern Donatism","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 17-Dec-08 11:13pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Not many people know these days about the Donatist Heresy, but the battle over it (i.e., what got it eventually officially labeled a \"heresy\") was a key development in Christianity....","rel":"","context":"In "Elections 2008"","block_context":{"text":"Elections 2008","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/politics-law\/elections-2008"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":27033,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/03\/10\/using-the-assembly-to-preach-a-sermon.html","url_meta":{"origin":129671,"position":5},"title":"Using the assembly to preach a sermon","author":"***Dave","date":"Sat 10-Mar-12 6:04pm","format":false,"excerpt":"See, I think most people, when they consider having a minister come in and do an invocation for a legislative body, they think of a quick prayer, asking for wisdom and blessings and so forth. And while there are some who might consider that an uncomfortable mingling of religion and\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/129671","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=129671"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/129671\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":129686,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/129671\/revisions\/129686"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=129671"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=129671"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=129671"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}