{"id":13322,"date":"2009-01-22T09:02:57","date_gmt":"2009-01-22T16:02:57","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/2009\/01\/22\/a-most-difficult-question.html"},"modified":"2009-01-22T09:02:57","modified_gmt":"2009-01-22T16:02:57","slug":"a_most_difficult_question","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2009\/01\/22\/a_most_difficult_question.html","title":{"rendered":"A most difficult question"},"content":{"rendered":"

I found this video fascinating. Some anti-abortion protesters were individually asked whether abortion should be illegal. Well, duh, they said yes. Then they were asked what sort of punishment a woman should get for having an illegal abortion. The results …<\/p>\n

<\/object> <\/p>\n

The vast majority appear never to have considered or faced the question.  Others, uncomfortable, recommend only prayer and counseling — but can’t answer why that sort of “murder” should not have a punishment. The one person willing to opine on a prison sentence wasn’t comfortable with dictating how long. “I’m not a lawyer,” as though they think only lawyers should determine sentences (I’m sure they’d disagree with that proposition).<\/p>\n

I’m not making light of this, though I’m sure some folks would. Indeed, this points out the tension in the whole question of abortion in American society — everyone, pretty much, agrees that abortion is not a Good Thing, but everyone, pretty much, understands that women are not seeking abortions for flip or facile or evil reasons. They’re willing to see “abortionists” go to jail, and try to keep it from being available to women as an option — but somehow the issues driving women to abortion are tacitly (never explicitly) acknowledged and women who are “killing babies” are given sympathy, not the lash. Perhaps that’s because they know women who have had abortions, and know that they are not cruel or petty or uncaring — or because they, themselves, have been faced with those sorts of situations in their own lives. It’s easier to hate “abortionists” and “clinics” than to hate your sister, your mother, your daughter.<\/p>\n

The unexamined part of this debate, though, is group-think. This particular video was all one-on-one. I suspect that, in a group, they would be more willing to see penal consequences for women who have abortions, and I think that becomes even more true when it’s abstracted into big speeches by pundits, preachers, and politicians. Though, even there, the proposed penalties tend to be focused on doctors, not on the people who seek out their services.<\/p>\n

There are two elephants in the room when it comes to the abortion debate. I think most people do in fact think that it’s wrong, or at least undesirable from the ideal, that it is, if not exactly the same, uncomfortably close to killing a baby. I think most people also — in a society where it has, in fact, been legal — know how difficult and painful a personal decision abortion usually is, and are unwilling to trivialize that by dictating penalties for those who decide to end a pregnancy. Because of discomfort over both those elephants, each side of the debate tends to play down one in favor of the other. That dishonesty from the most shrill in the conflict tends to dehumanize the debate, and will keep this issue from every being resolved until we are all both individually and societally willing to face the matter.<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

(via Pharyngula<\/a>)<\/p>\n

<\/small><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

I found this video fascinating. Some anti-abortion protesters were individually asked whether abortion should be illegal. Well, duh, they said yes. Then they were asked what sort of punishment a…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[9,8],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-13322","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-politics-law","category-zt-pc"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":139078,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2019\/06\/06\/alabamas-draconian-abortion-law-made-one-unanticipated-demographic-happy-rapists.html","url_meta":{"origin":13322,"position":0},"title":"Alabama’s draconian abortion law made one unanticipated demographic happy: rapists","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 6-Jun-19 6:41pm","format":false,"excerpt":"And the state's done the minimum amount to fix that.","rel":"","context":"In "Church & State"","block_context":{"text":"Church & State","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/politics-law\/church-state"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/06\/alabama-capitol-dome.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/06\/alabama-capitol-dome.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/06\/alabama-capitol-dome.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/06\/alabama-capitol-dome.jpg?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/06\/alabama-capitol-dome.jpg?resize=1050%2C600&ssl=1 3x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/06\/alabama-capitol-dome.jpg?resize=1400%2C800&ssl=1 4x"},"classes":[]},{"id":130336,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2016\/03\/30\/donald-trump-may-have-found-a-position-too-extreme-for-him-to-take.html","url_meta":{"origin":13322,"position":1},"title":"Donald Trump may have found a position too extreme for him to take","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 30-Mar-16 10:48pm","format":false,"excerpt":"As he backs off of his clear (if \"in the middle of thinking about it\") statement that, under the anti-abortion laws that he would (now) promulgate as President, women would be prosecuted for getting abortions.Of course, his back-track that, instead, doctors would be criminally punished for providing abortions to women\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":30150,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/09\/08\/oh-there-you-go-with-that-empathy-malarky-again.html","url_meta":{"origin":13322,"position":2},"title":"Oh, there you go with that "empathy" malarky again","author":"***Dave","date":"Sat 8-Sep-12 1:30pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Because, after all, why should a (male) politician crusading to make abortion illegal even bother considering why a woman would want one in the first place? \u00a0I mean, that gets into all that \"empathy\" and \"sympathy\" and \"root causes\" and \"blame someone else\" kind of claptrap that only muddies the\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":8985,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2006\/03\/11\/silence_is_gold.html","url_meta":{"origin":13322,"position":3},"title":"Silence is golden?","author":"***Dave","date":"Sat 11-Mar-06 9:16am","format":false,"excerpt":"Despite it being a huge issue, and the biggest newsworthy bit to come from South Dakota for a while, the largest paper in SD will not editorialize about the recent...","rel":"","context":"In "Crime & Punishment"","block_context":{"text":"Crime & Punishment","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/politics-law\/crime-punishment"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":131027,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2016\/07\/08\/the-struck-down-texas-anti-abortion-laws-served-their-purpose-sort-of.html","url_meta":{"origin":13322,"position":4},"title":"The struck-down Texas anti-abortion laws served their purpose … sort of","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 8-Jul-16 5:07pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Abortions in Texas in 2014 were, overall, down -- but precipitously down among Latina women, at least as far as official statistics go. There was a recorded uptick in women going to neighboring states but indications that a lot of those abortions changed over to medicinal abortions using less-safe meds\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":32261,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2013\/01\/21\/roe-v-wade-and-popular-support.html","url_meta":{"origin":13322,"position":5},"title":"Roe v. Wade and Popular Support","author":"***Dave","date":"Mon 21-Jan-13 6:01pm","format":false,"excerpt":"So the largest margin yet (70-24%) support Roe v. Wade -- or, at least, do not want to see it (completely) overturned. \u00a0That's an ironic positive, as more states ramp up restrictions on access to legal abortion. (That ramping up -- and the publicizing of same -- may be part\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13322","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=13322"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13322\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=13322"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=13322"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=13322"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}