{"id":16524,"date":"2010-01-12T21:43:57","date_gmt":"2010-01-13T04:43:57","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/?p=16524"},"modified":"2010-01-13T08:40:08","modified_gmt":"2010-01-13T15:40:08","slug":"pray4trig-and-playing-parlor-tricks-with-god","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2010\/01\/12\/pray4trig-and-playing-parlor-tricks-with-god.html","title":{"rendered":"“Pray4Trig” and playing parlor tricks with God"},"content":{"rendered":"

Via Les, from Bay of Fundie<\/a>, I’ve learned of the “Pray 4 Trig<\/a>” website, which seeks to gather up enough congregations of True Christians to pray for Trig Palin, in order to cure him of his Down Syndrome.<\/p>\n

Um …<\/p>\n

\"Prayer\"<\/a>Intercessory prayer is a tough nut to crack.\u00a0 Orthodox Christianity indicates that prayer for God to intercede (intercessory prayer) will lead to some sort of results.\u00a0 Actually, looking at the Bible, it pretty much seems to say you’ll get what you ask for<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? (Matthew 7:7-11<\/a>)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Yet, clearly not all prayer is answered, and cases of prayer seeming to be answered don’t appear (from most experiments that have been held) to be statistically significant, just anecdotal\u00a0 This leads some to doubt God’s existence.\u00a0 It leads others to doubt God’s omnipotence or benevolence or interest in humanity.\u00a0 It leads some to come up with explanations why a benevolent God doesn’t intercede all the time when asked.\u00a0 And it leads still others to assume that the folks who are asking just aren’t the Right Kind of Folks, the True Believers, the Chosen People saying the Right Prayers in the Right Way.<\/p>\n

Welcome to the Pray4Trig site.<\/p>\n

Q: So what makes this particular prayer so special? Why should congregations gather in support of it?<\/strong><\/p>\n

A: Atheists and others who hate God like to claim that He only \u201canswers prayers\u201d where divine intervention can\u2019t be proven. They make websites about it, like Why Won\u2019t God Heal Amputees?<\/a> They say that God won\u2019t answer the prayers of amputees because He isn\u2019t real!<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

So you aren’t actually praying for Trig Palin<\/a>‘s sake.\u00a0 You’re praying to make folks who doubt prayer look bad.\u00a0 Nice.\u00a0 I’m sure God will rush right out and intercede on your behalf, since you so clearly are loving your neighbor as yourself.<\/p>\n

Oh, by the way, while there may well be some atheists who “hate God,” most of the ones I’ve encountered simply don’t believe that God exists. While one might have an interesting theological discussion about whether that’s better or worse than hating God, the point is that if you’re going to talk about other people, it would help to avoid generalizations that are (a) overly broad and\/or (b) wrong.<\/p>\n

Q: Well, why doesn\u2019t He answer their prayers?<\/strong><\/p>\n

A: Honestly, when\u2019s the last time you heard of a congregation praying, with faith, that a member\u2019s lost limb would be restored to him? Never in my lifetime. Too many people lack faith.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Nice.\u00a0 “All those folks who have been praying for each other in church?\u00a0 Nah.\u00a0 They don’t have enough faith.”\u00a0 It’s first cousin to the Prosperity Gospel — if you’re poor or struggling in the world, it’s your fault because you clearly don’t have enough faith, otherwise God would take care of you. And all those rich people who seem to have all they want?\u00a0 Ignore that whole “camel through the eye of a needle” malarkey — they’re rich and well-off (and have their prayers answered) because God has chosen them because they have enough of the right kind of faith.<\/p>\n

And in the Matthew passage above, Jesus doesn’t say anything about faith.\u00a0 Indeed, he calls the listeners “evil,” but still worthy of receiving gifts from God.<\/p>\n

[…] With enough congregations joining up, I have no doubt there will be sufficient people with genuine faith in God (instead of lip service) to ensure that Trig Palin is healed of Down Syndrome.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

But why do you need multiple faithful congregations?\u00a0 Didn’t Jesus say that it was sufficient for any individual to ask for an intercession (Luke 11:10<\/a>)?\u00a0 Or that just 2 or 3 “gathered in my name” (Matt. 18:19-20<\/a>)?<\/p>\n

And if Trig isn’t healed, is the answer that not enough of the folks praying had “genuine faith” (whatever that means) to reach Critical Intercessionary Mass?<\/p>\n

Q: Why Trig Palin?<\/strong><\/p>\n

A: Trig Palin is well known in the media; people all over the world know just who he is, and they already care about him. It will be much easier for them to sincerely pray for someone they care for, instead of what to them is a random name.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

One assumes that the folks who “care for him” who are not “genuinely faithful” need not apply.<\/p>\n

I think the international renown of Trig Palin is also, perhaps, a bit exaggerated here.<\/p>\n

But this is interesting.\u00a0 Does intercessory prayer require (or work better) if the person involved is someone who is “known” and “cared about”?\u00a0 That seems to fly in the face of loving one’s neighbor and who one’s neighbor actually is (Luke 10:25-37<\/a>). (Hint: it’s not just people who you know and care for. (Matt. 5:46-47<\/a>))<\/p>\n

Also, it is known publicly that Trig Palin indeed has Down Syndrome. Science has no way to undo this condition, which is the result of an extra chromosome; but God can. When Trig Palin is found to be miraculously healed, everyone but the most hardened atheist will have to acknowledge God\u2019s Majesty!<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

One might question why God would have given Trig an extra chromosome in the first place.\u00a0 If the answer is to provide an opportunity to prove “God’s majesty,” then one has to wonder about all the other Down Syndrome sufferers who haven’t been healed.<\/p>\n

One has to also ask: if these prayers for Trig do work, what’s the next step?\u00a0 Will the Truly Faithful also be asked to prayer for all other Down Syndrome individuals?\u00a0 And cancer patients? And sufferers from any other ill?\u00a0 If so, and if it works, why haven’t they been doing it already (what have they been praying for all this time)?\u00a0 And if not, why not?<\/p>\n

Q: I see you\u2019ve chosen April 18, 2010 for the Day of Prayer. Why not (next week, last Thursday, Christmas, whatever)?<\/strong><\/p>\n

A: Two reasons. First, April 18 is Trig\u2019s birthday. Can you imagine a better gift?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Yes, being cured now, rather than in three months.<\/p>\n

Second, coordinating a worldwide prayer event is going to take time! This date gives us plenty of time for people to register, talk to their pastors, tell friends and family, etc.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

You have to register to pray for Trig?\u00a0 You have to coordinate it with your pastor?\u00a0 You have to gather up friends and family?\u00a0 That doesn’t seem to be how Jesus describes how one should pray (Matt. 6:1-7<\/a>).<\/p>\n

The problem of intercessory prayer is, as I said, a tough nut to crack. The best suggestion I’ve heard (that is, the one that I find most comfortable) is that the point of intercessory prayer is less to command God to jump through hoops, than to actually effect a change on the pray-er\u00a0 as much as on the pray-ee.\u00a0 In other words, by considering the needs of others through prayer, it drives us to take action beyond just prayer (e.g., by praying for Trig’s cure, we might also then be inspired to donate to research into Down Syndrome<\/a>, or do something to help out a local family with a Down individual, etc.).\u00a0 That’s very nice and useful, though it doesn’t seem to address the problems with the Bible passages noted above.<\/p>\n

But regardless of the theology, I’m pretty sure that turning intercessory prayer into a pissing match (“We’ll show those atheist so-and-so’s by having God answer our prayer!”) isn’t likely to be helpful.\u00a0 Unless it’s a prayer to have them torn apart by bears or something (2 Kings 23-25<\/a>), in which case it\u00a0 will be, at the least, entertaining.<\/p>\n

I think I’ll set a alarm to check back with this site on April 19th and see what’s happening at the Pray4Trig site.\u00a0 I wonder if (a) they’ll be like the True Bible Code<\/a> folks and their ever-recalculating Biblically predicted nuking of New York, suggesting that “these things take time” (why?), or (b) they’ll simply blame any lack of Trig’s cure on insufficient faithful praying the right kind of prayer.<\/p>\n

And if Trig is miraculously cured?\u00a0 Well, heck, that’s actually a result I’d love to see — not so that\u00a0 the Truly Faithful can feel smugly self-righteous, or for proof of the magic of prayer, or for the flogging of God’s majesty … but, well, for Trig’s<\/em> sake.<\/p>\n

Yeah, let’s not forget about him in this scenario.<\/p>\n

UPDATE:\u00a0 Some additional notes (after overnight cogitation) in the Comments.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Via Les, from Bay of Fundie, I’ve learned of the “Pray 4 Trig” website, which seeks to gather up enough congregations of True Christians to pray for Trig Palin, in order to cure him of his Down Syndrome. Um … Intercessory prayer is a tough nut to crack.\u00a0 Orthodox Christianity indicates that prayer for God … Continue reading ““Pray4Trig” and playing parlor tricks with God”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":16525,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_seopress_robots_follow":"","_seopress_robots_imageindex":"","_seopress_robots_snippet":"","_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_robots_breadcrumbs":"","_seopress_robots_freeze_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_custom_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_canonical":"","_seopress_social_fb_title":"","_seopress_social_fb_desc":"","_seopress_social_fb_img":"","_seopress_social_fb_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_height":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_title":"","_seopress_social_twitter_desc":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_height":0,"_seopress_redirections_value":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled_regex":"","_seopress_redirections_logged_status":"","_seopress_redirections_param":"","_seopress_redirections_type":0,"_seopress_analysis_target_kw":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[57,27,71],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-16524","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-religion-my-parish","category-religion","category-religion-me"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/01\/prayer.jpg","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":6042,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2004\/06\/02\/not_a_prayer.html","url_meta":{"origin":16524,"position":0},"title":"Not a prayer","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 2-Jun-04 11:12am","format":false,"excerpt":"A famous study, published in the Columbia University Medical Center Journal of Reproductive Medicine in October 2001, purporting to prove (or at least indicate) the efficacy of intercessory prayer, looks...","rel":"","context":"In "Religion"","block_context":{"text":"Religion","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/religion"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":33330,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2013\/04\/23\/prayer-is-not-enough.html","url_meta":{"origin":16524,"position":1},"title":"Prayer is not enough","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 23-Apr-13 5:16pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Some would say it's not anything, but even if you believe in the efficacy of intercessory prayer, it's not a substitute for action. 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