{"id":18077,"date":"2010-08-05T18:17:05","date_gmt":"2010-08-06T00:17:05","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/?p=18077"},"modified":"2010-08-05T18:17:05","modified_gmt":"2010-08-06T00:17:05","slug":"the-coming-post-prop-8-overturn-armageddon","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2010\/08\/05\/the-coming-post-prop-8-overturn-armageddon.html","title":{"rendered":"The coming post-Prop-8-overturn Armageddon"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"\"<\/div>\n

Chuck Colson lets loose on the Proposition 8 overturning by Judge Vaughn Walker yesterday:\u00a0 Judging Marriage<\/a><\/p>\n

He starts off with a recap of the trial and ruling, summing it up as:<\/p>\n

Even though his ruling isn\u2019t surprising, his dismissal of the opinions of the people of California and five thousand-plus years of human tradition is breath-taking. Then again, inasmuch as Walker is one of the few openly gay federal judges, maybe his dismissal shouldn\u2019t shock us, either.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Which, in a nutshell, has been the reaction from the Religious Right today, which seems to believe that if (a) that’s the way it’s always been, and (b) a majority says that’s the way it should be, then (c) it is clearly constitutional, and the only person who would say otherwise is a faggot.<\/p>\n

From there, though, Colson gets into Armageddon-land.<\/p>\n

Let\u2019s be clear. What\u2019s at stake here goes beyond California and even beyond marriage itself. The reasoning that overturned California\u2019s law, that said that the right of gays to marry is a fundamental constitutional right, would, if applied nationally, overturn similar laws throughout the country.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Correct! Well, he got one right.<\/p>\n

As Pastor Jim Garlow, who led the Proposition 8 campaign, points out, it would be a mistake to think that the battle about the definition of marriage is only over marriage\u2014disastrous as that is. A loss on this issue will have devastating consequences for our personal freedoms.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Because …?<\/p>\n

Garlow points to the weakening of parental rights, of course the attack on religious freedom and individuals practicing their faith in public. People who oppose same-sex marriage will be forced to choose between full participation in public life and fidelity to their convictions.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Sort of like gays?<\/p>\n

I think I missed the part where Judge Walker said that people have to burn their Bibles, renounce Christ, and marry people of the same gender (as amusing<\/a> as that thought is).\u00a0 What he said was that the state has no compelling case to discriminate in terms of how it interacts with its citizens based solely on sexual orientation.<\/p>\n

So what comes next? An appeal to Ninth Circuit, the most liberal circuit court in America, and an expedited appeal to Supreme Court.<\/p>\n

But my hopes are instead in the groundswell of public outrage and resistance. This is re-writing the Constitution of the United States and undermining the most basic institutions of civilized society.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Actually, it’s applying <\/em>the Constitution of the United States to a state law that discriminates. It’s actually recognizing the value of marriage and noting that no rational (as opposed to traditional) basis was given for violating it.<\/p>\n

Thought Exercise here:\u00a0 The citizens of the State of Colorado passes a law by a narrow majority (more men turn out than women) that say that women should not be allowed to hold jobs in the workplace, own property, or vote.\u00a0 A Federal Judge rules that this violates the Due Process and Equal Protection clauses of the Constitution.\u00a0 Is that a “re-writing” of the Constitution?<\/p>\n

Certainly thousands of years of\u00a0 tradition in Western Civilization, until the past mere century or so, would support the idea that women should be “barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.”\u00a0 (And, yes, I daresay there are those in the Religious Right who wouldn’t particularly consider that a bad thing.)\u00a0 But, really, we be hearing the same yammering about it? Including from the distaff portion of the Religious Right?<\/p>\n

How about interracial marriage?\u00a0 Religious teachers (some of them) railed against it.\u00a0 Local majorities despised it. Centuries of tradition forbade it.<\/p>\n

When the Supreme Court said states couldn’t forbid it, was that “re-writing” the Constitution?\u00a0 Was that a threat to religious freedom?\u00a0 Did democracy die, and (worse) America turn into Western Europe?<\/p>\n

The point of the Constitution’s rights is that the “groundswell” of the majority’s “outrage” (assuming such) ought not to be able to trample on the rights of the minority.\u00a0 You can’t treat people differently under the law <\/em>for being Christian or Muslim or Quaker or female or male or blond or African-American or Estonian-American or gay or bisexual unless <\/em>you can demonstrate a compelling state interest in doing so.\u00a0 One of those people <\/em>being “icky” or “obviously inferior” or “immoral” is not a compelling state interest — it’s a personal moral and aesthetic judgment.<\/p>\n

Heck if public judgment of who’s “immoral” were the basis of Constitutional Law, a lot of us would be in trouble.\u00a0 If each of our marriages were subject to approval or dismissal by our local community … fewer would be, I suspect, married.<\/p>\n

This is why we\u2019ve signed the Manhattan Declaration. You should come to www.manhattandeclaration.org, and sign on and get your friends to sign on. It\u2019s time we took a stand. Millions of us have got to speak up and say, \u201cNo, we\u2019ll give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, never to Caesar what belongs to God.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Which is fine by me. But what Mr Colson wants is to actually force Caesar to act on God’s behalf <\/em>(or what a majority of people think is on God’s behalf), which is a different kettle of fish altogether — and not the sort of Constitution that the Founders seem to have had in mind at all.<\/p>\n

Which is fine by me, too.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Chuck Colson lets loose on the Proposition 8 overturning by Judge Vaughn Walker yesterday:\u00a0 Judging Marriage He starts off with a recap of the trial and ruling, summing it up as: Even though his ruling isn\u2019t surprising, his dismissal of the opinions of the people of California and five thousand-plus years of human tradition is … Continue reading “The coming post-Prop-8-overturn Armageddon”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_seopress_robots_follow":"","_seopress_robots_imageindex":"","_seopress_robots_snippet":"","_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_robots_breadcrumbs":"","_seopress_robots_freeze_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_custom_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_canonical":"","_seopress_social_fb_title":"","_seopress_social_fb_desc":"","_seopress_social_fb_img":"","_seopress_social_fb_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_height":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_title":"","_seopress_social_twitter_desc":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_height":0,"_seopress_redirections_value":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled_regex":"","_seopress_redirections_logged_status":"","_seopress_redirections_param":"","_seopress_redirections_type":0,"_seopress_analysis_target_kw":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[25,9,8],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-18077","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-gay-stuff","category-politics-law","category-zt-pc"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":21015,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2011\/05\/11\/unblogged-bits-wed-11-may-11-1730.html","url_meta":{"origin":18077,"position":0},"title":"Unblogged Bits (Wed. 11-May-11 1730)","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 11-May-11 5:30pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Links (most recent first) that caught my eye, but did not warrant full-blown blog entries .... After approving NBC buyout, FCC Commish becomes Comcast lobbyist - Best government money can buy! Buffalo Man Living Next To Mosque Puts Sign On Lawn: \u201cBomb Making Next Driveway\u201d - Dolt. Ohio State Rep\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Big Business"","block_context":{"text":"Big Business","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/big-business"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":18069,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2010\/08\/04\/unblogged-bits-wed-4-aug-10-2000.html","url_meta":{"origin":18077,"position":1},"title":"Unblogged Bits (Wed. 4-Aug-10 2000)","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 4-Aug-10 6:00pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Links (most recent first) that caught my eye, but did not warrant full-blown blog entries .... 38 Republican Senators Vote To Filibuster A Deficit Reducing Jobs Bills - It is clearly all about politics, not about economic philosophy or any other rational explanation. It's just about trying to Stand Firm\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Potpourri"","block_context":{"text":"Potpourri","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/potpourri"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":26165,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/02\/07\/what-the-ninth-circuit-decision-on-prop-8-really-says.html","url_meta":{"origin":18077,"position":2},"title":"What the Ninth Circuit decision on Prop. 8 really says","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 7-Feb-12 6:23pm","format":false,"excerpt":"In short:1. Once a right is recognized for a group (in this case by the California Supreme Court), you can't simply wish it away with a majority vote without it looking very much like a violation of the Federal Constitution's Equal Protection Under the Law.2. Your chances of being upheld\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":18059,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2010\/08\/04\/a-little-rationality-creeps-into-california.html","url_meta":{"origin":18077,"position":3},"title":"A little rationality creeps into California","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 4-Aug-10 5:15pm","format":false,"excerpt":"As you can tell by the high-pitched screams from certain quarters, Federal Judge Vaughn Walker has overturned California's Proposition 8 (decision here).\u00a0 The nitty-gritty: Proposition 8 fails to advance any rational basis in singling out gay men and lesbians for denial of a marriage license. Indeed, the evidence shows Proposition\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "LGBTQ &c"","block_context":{"text":"LGBTQ &c","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/gay-stuff"},"img":{"alt_text":"Themis, Blind Justice","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/08\/blind-justice-themis-219x300.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":18117,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2010\/08\/12\/unblogged-bits-thu-12-aug-10-0600.html","url_meta":{"origin":18077,"position":4},"title":"Unblogged Bits (Thu. 12-Aug-10 0600)","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 12-Aug-10 12:00am","format":false,"excerpt":"Links (most recent first) that caught my eye, but did not warrant full-blown blog entries .... Fischer: \"We Ought to be Done with the Building of Mosques in the United States of America\" - \"Permits, in my judgment, should not be granted to build even one more mosque in the\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Marriage Equality"","block_context":{"text":"Marriage Equality","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/politics-law\/marriage-equality"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":8796,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2006\/04\/13\/aha_the_root_ca.html","url_meta":{"origin":18077,"position":5},"title":"Aha! The root cause of the immigration problem is …","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 13-Apr-06 5:28pm","format":false,"excerpt":"... abortion! That's right! Never mind that Roe v. Wade is only 30 years old, and immigration from south of the border has been around for a lot longer. 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