{"id":18339,"date":"2010-08-31T06:50:50","date_gmt":"2010-08-31T12:50:50","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/?p=18339"},"modified":"2010-08-31T06:50:50","modified_gmt":"2010-08-31T12:50:50","slug":"on-the-not-being-a-dick-discussion","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2010\/08\/31\/on-the-not-being-a-dick-discussion.html","title":{"rendered":"On the Not Being a Dick discussion"},"content":{"rendered":"

We touched on this during the Podcast<\/a>, and, if you want a decent written rendition of the background, you can read it here<\/a>.<\/p>\n

\"Jesus<\/a>So … is Plait full of it? I don’t think so. \u00a0My initial reaction is applause, followed by thinking that those who are protesting doth protest too much — but, then, enough of them are folks I respect that I need to consider that more carefully, too.<\/p>\n

The issue is, when, if ever, is it okay to be a dick. \u00a0Which Plait defines (or refines) as “when the person belittles their opponent, uses obviously inflammatory language, or overly-aggressively gets in their face.”<\/p>\n

(I’d actually scribbled a bunch of disconnected notes on this for the Podcast, though we never got to that point. \u00a0Most of the below is from that, which is why it will probably come off as a bit \u00a0disjointed):<\/p>\n

    \n
  1. On the one hand, it’s true that Plait isn’t asserting that speaking with passion, with strength, even with anger, isn’t “allowed.” \u00a0Nor is he advocating being a passive milquetoast or rhetorical rug. \u00a0It doesn’t mean appeasing. \u00a0It doesn’t even necessarily mean accommodation (though\u00a0accommodation\u00a0is not necessarily a bad thing as an interim tactic; it depends on what the consequences of accommodating are).<\/li>\n
  2. Nor, though his arguments were directed at the skeptic community, do I think they are limited there. \u00a0There are plenty of non-skeptics who behave like dicks, with both good and bad intentions.<\/li>\n
  3. It seems to me that a lot of what’s involved here is context and purpose. \u00a0From a purpose standpoint, what’s the goal of the interaction? \u00a0Are you seeking to persuade on a given point? \u00a0Are you seeking to lay the groundwork for a more gradual enlightenment (however you might define it)? Are you seeking to confront untruth or deception? \u00a0Are you trying to shock someone out of their shell? Are you trying to show others observing a conversation that it’s okay to think for themselves? \u00a0Are you trying to show others observing a conversation that you’re a really cool, strong, confident person and the other person is simply a jerk? \u00a0Are you “merely” letting loose steam? \u00a0All of these will suggest different tactics, depending further on the individuals and history involved.<\/li>\n
  4. That can also be influenced by factors like the urgency of the discussion, and the consequences of “failure” that you’re willing to live with.<\/li>\n
  5. The purpose, again, is key. \u00a0If you are interested in persuading,\u00a0leading with a (rhetorical) fist can sometimes be effective, for some values of “effective.” \u00a0But it’s an escalation that it’s difficult to back down from. \u00a0In my experience, starting a bit softer and ramping up over time is a better longer-term strategy. \u00a0If you’re not <\/em>interested in persuading the person you are confronting, but have reasons to confront anyway, then taking a stronger stand saves \u00a0some time (but increases the risk of being, or being perceived as, a dick).<\/li>\n
  6. That perception part is important, because whether you are trying to persuade another, persuade observers, or even feel confident in your own position, not coming across as a dick is important. \u00a0Being dickish tends to weaken one’s argument (IMO); while it can break through a shell of complacency, as often it discredits both in terms of “Why is this person being a dick instead of arguing the point?” and in terms of “Why is this person claiming the moral high ground when they’re being a dick?”<\/li>\n
  7. “That’s what you were thinking of wearing tonight, honey? Are you insane? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that outfit looks?” \u00a0Yes, there is a chance your Significant Other will snap to reality and understand that their fashion logic has been extremely skewed, and enter a new realm of sartorial enlightenment. \u00a0On the other hand, it seems far more likely that the consequences to the relationship (and to enlightenment) will be far less positive.<\/li>\n
  8. Persuasion is about building trust. \u00a0That seems ironic, particularly when dealing with questions of skepticism, but we’re not talking trust-as-in-authority. \u00a0Most people don’t think strictly with their reason (that may or may not be\u00a0regrettable, but it is reality), and facts are not always as self-evident as they seem. \u00a0To reach them, you need to engage their emotions, too, even if it is simply to point them toward a path and encourage them to explore it on their own. Trust is not engendered by dickishness. \u00a0Resentment and anger and closing down are.<\/li>\n
  9. Being dickish, with good intentions, is sort of like being a Drill Instructor — a lot of yelling and abuse in an arguably good cause, trying to break through barriers and resistance to guide along the right path. \u00a0Sometimes that is, in fact, necessary.<\/li>\n
  10. There are things you can only do with a sledgehammer. \u00a0But a screwdriver is more often of use. \u00a0(It’s best to have both in your repertoire, but if you only have one, the screwdriver is going to be more handy around the house.)<\/li>\n
  11. Plait’s definition is filled with what some would call weasel words — “obviously inflammatory,” “overly aggressive.” \u00a0That’s because there are no hard and fast rules here, few bright line cases. \u00a0It’s a matter of individual judgment, and not necessarily amenable to consensus all the time as to what constitutes dickishness (“I know it when I see it,” to paraphrase Justice Stewart).<\/li>\n
  12. That also applies to his secondary definition, a sort of Golden Rule of Dickishness: is the behavior I am exhibiting something that, if I were seeing it turned on me, I would consider that person to be a dick? \u00a0If so, that’s probably not a good thing — but, good or not, it’s a matter of awareness<\/em>. \u00a0Are my actions and words actually productive (net), or hurtful? \u00a0Am I bullying in a good cause, or for my own jollies, or even without being aware of it? \u00a0The unexamined life is \u00a0not worth living, as Socrates put it; the unexamined dickishness is similarly dubious.<\/li>\n
  13. That said, accusing someone of being a dick, not because of their behavior but because you’re offended that someone would even question your deeply held (reasoned or unreasoned) beliefs, is a misapplication of the term, it seems to me. \u00a0Being offended by someone does not necessarily \u00a0mean the other person is a dick. \u00a0(Intentionally offending someone arguably does, but even there, as one commenter noted, sometimes good medicine makes you feel worse for a while.)<\/li>\n
  14. Bear in mind that I am, officially, a Nice Guy, so dickishness does not come naturally to me (and usually involves, when I become aware of it, a cause of shame). \u00a0My analysis of this, then, is not likely untainted by my feelings.<\/li>\n
  15. It seems to me that most people agree, in principle, with the above points — there are times when being a dick (or being perceived as a dick) is necessary, but there are arguably more times when it’s a sub-optimal tactic, and that the key is to engage our brain before operating our mouth.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

    That’s a bit of a ramble, and I don’t have time to put it into a more coherent form right this moment, but I wanted to get it written down before I lost my notes and train of thought.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

    We touched on this during the Podcast, and, if you want a decent written rendition of the background, you can read it here. So … is Plait full of it? I don’t think so. \u00a0My initial reaction is applause, followed by thinking that those who are protesting doth protest too much — but, then, enough … Continue reading “On the Not Being a Dick discussion”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_seopress_analysis_target_kw":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[71,8],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-18339","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-religion-me","category-zt-pc"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":30338,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/09\/25\/saturn.html","url_meta":{"origin":18339,"position":0},"title":"Saturn","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 25-Sep-12 8:33am","format":false,"excerpt":"Gorgeous.Reshared post from +Philip PlaitThe jaw-dropping beauty of SaturnThe Universe is awesome, especially our little corner of it: here's a Cassini pic of Saturn to prove it. I have details about what you're seeing on my blog:http:\/\/blogs.discovermagazine.com\/badastronomy\/2012\/09\/25\/angling-in-on-saturn\/ Google+: View post on Google+","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":30081,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/09\/04\/it-is-sometimes-a-lovely-universe.html","url_meta":{"origin":18339,"position":1},"title":"It is, sometimes, a lovely universe","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 4-Sep-12 11:20pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Really, it is.Reshared post from +Philip PlaitTemba, his spiral arms wide...A gorgeous spiral galaxy for your eyeball consumption.http:\/\/blogs.discovermagazine.com\/badastronomy\/2012\/09\/03\/temba-his-spiral-arms-wide\/ Google+: View post on Google+","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":134391,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/23\/the-circle-of-life-2.html","url_meta":{"origin":18339,"position":2},"title":"The Circle of Life","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 23-Aug-17 10:04am","format":false,"excerpt":"Heh. Yeah, this sounds like something I would do. Or at least talk about doing. Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Dying Wish Hey geeks of Houston! We've sold more than half of the discounted student tickets for BAHFest Houston! Buy soon if you wanna see me, Jorge Cham, Phil Plait,\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/smbc-apples.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":32445,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2013\/02\/05\/colorado-continues-to-respect-science-education.html","url_meta":{"origin":18339,"position":3},"title":"Colorado continues to respect science education","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 5-Feb-13 4:17pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Whew.Reshared post from +Philip PlaitColorado creationism bill dies in committeeYay! Chalk one up for the good guys!http:\/\/www.slate.com\/blogs\/bad_astronomy\/2013\/02\/05\/colorado_classroom_creationism_bill_to_allow_teaching_of_religion_in_school.html Google+: View post on Google+","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":27929,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/05\/18\/andromeda.html","url_meta":{"origin":18339,"position":4},"title":"Andromeda","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 18-May-12 4:50pm","format":false,"excerpt":"It can be a lovely universe, sometimes.Reshared post from +Philip PlaitAndromeda!http:\/\/blogs.discovermagazine.com\/badastronomy\/2012\/05\/18\/andromedas-majestic-spray-of-billions-of-hot-stars\/This picture of the Andromeda Galaxy is a composite of 11 separate observations by NASA's GALEX observatory, and the full-sized image will blow the top of your head off. It's amazing. Google+: View post on Google+","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":31904,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/12\/24\/awesome-universe-ennit.html","url_meta":{"origin":18339,"position":5},"title":"Awesome Universe, ennit?","author":"***Dave","date":"Mon 24-Dec-12 3:17pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Awesome Universe, ennit?Reshared post from +Philip PlaitSpectacular Hubble pic of a dying starThis may be my favorite Hubble image of 2012: a dying star sheds material, then sprays it with a hose, making a giant backwards S in the sky.http:\/\/www.slate.com\/blogs\/bad_astronomy\/2012\/12\/24\/hubble_photo_a_dying_star_s_colorful_demise.html Google+: View post on Google+","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/18339","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=18339"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/18339\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=18339"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=18339"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=18339"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}