{"id":19356,"date":"2010-11-30T15:19:04","date_gmt":"2010-11-30T22:19:04","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/?p=19356"},"modified":"2010-11-30T15:19:04","modified_gmt":"2010-11-30T22:19:04","slug":"defensiveness-for-christ","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2010\/11\/30\/defensiveness-for-christ.html","title":{"rendered":"Defensiveness for Christ"},"content":{"rendered":"

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.<\/em>
\n— Jesus, Matthew 7:1-5<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Marcia Segelstein, “Reluctant Rebel*” and columnist for OneNewsNow, a Religious Right website<\/a>, complains about the mean atheists and their actually being public about their atheism<\/a>, “just in time for Christmas.”<\/p>\n

*She considers herself in rebellion against “the mainstream media, the Episcopal Church (and others which make up the rules instead of obeying them), and the decaying culture her children witness every day.”<\/small><\/p>\n

\"\"
One of those "hostile" and "intolerant" atheist billboards<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

She goes through a series of examples of ads — billboards, bus ads, etc. — being put up by the American Humanist Association, and the Freedom From Religion Foundation, and the American Atheists.\u00a0 They vary from cute to mildly confrontational, but they boil down to a declaration of: “I don’t believe in God, but I can still be a good, moral human being with a nice life; if you feel the same way, don’t be afraid to speak up.”<\/p>\n

Ms Segelstein is exasperated and confused.<\/p>\n

I guess I just don’t understand.\u00a0 Christians (along with Jews and Muslims) …<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

… And, I suppose, some other parenthetical religions …<\/p>\n

… gather in groups to worship.\u00a0 Atheists don’t gather not<\/em> to worship, so why seek out members?\u00a0 What’s there to be a member of?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Humans are social animals.\u00a0 We look for ways to herd together. Loneliness is one of the great psyche-crushing occurrences in the human experience.<\/p>\n

Let’s say you lived in a neighborhood where everyone painted their houses taupe.\u00a0 In fact, the HOA rules pretty much encouraged that.\u00a0 And everyone was always raving about how wonderful the color was, how lovely it looked, how excellent it was to live in a neighborhood of all-taupe houses.\u00a0 There might even be discussion in passing, over the back fence, about how there were some folks who preferred blue houses, but, you know, those people had bad taste at best, and were perhaps mentally disordered at worst.<\/p>\n

And let’s say you really don’t like taupe houses.\u00a0 But you’re trapped there, all alone.<\/p>\n

Until one day someone says, “Well, you know, I actually kind of like blue houses.\u00a0 I’ve always found taupe houses a bit boring, even ugly.”<\/p>\n

Wouldn’t you be thrilled?<\/p>\n

Wouldn’t you wish you’d spoken out sooner?<\/p>\n

Wouldn’t you be so happy there was someone else out there who validated your feelings, so that you weren’t alone any more?<\/p>\n

Ms Segelstein doesn’t get it.\u00a0 As far as she’s concerned, there’s people who like taupe houses, and folks who criticize the people who like taupe houses, and she doesn’t understand why<\/em>.<\/p>\n

(And, yes, atheists do <\/em>gather together sometimes to discuss stuff, even in regular meetings.\u00a0 Though I think most of them do, in fact, enjoy sleeping in on Sundays.)<\/p>\n

And why should atheists care about stopping worshippers who are just “going through the motions”?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Because they believe in personal liberty? In people being able to make a choice? In folks feeling trapped but also feeling like they have to go along with the taupe house thing because, well, everyone else does it, and that’s the color house their parents lived in.<\/p>\n

Or, to put it another way, as the Bible says in John 8:31-32<\/a>:<\/p>\n

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, \u201cIf you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.\u201d<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Truth<\/em>.\u00a0 Truth is important.\u00a0 Some people value the truth, and they value the opportunity for people to discover <\/em>the truth, and to act <\/em>on that discovery.<\/p>\n

People who are just “going through the motions” might be perfectly happy to go along as they are.\u00a0 Or they might be miserable and feel trapped.\u00a0 But they’re a lot less likely to do anything about it if they don’t realize that what they feel isn’t unnatural or evil or anti-social or a disappointment to the world.\u00a0 Choosing to stop being a believer “going through the motions” doesn’t mean cutting oneself off from all society.\u00a0 There are others who (dis)believe like you do. <\/em><\/p>\n

That’s the message these billboards are trying to convey.<\/p>\n

Do they think they might get their hands on money once pledged to churches?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Of course. Because (a) we all know that atheists are amoral and only interested in money, and (b) Christian churches and church leaders would never advertise their religious gatherings in order to get money.<\/p>\n

Trying to tear down the belief system of the world’s foremost religion — Christianity — is what seems intolerant to me.\u00a0 Placing prominent ads declaring the birth of Christ to be a myth seems downright hostile.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Given the vocal, virulent, hateful efforts by some conservative Christians to, for example, tear down the belief system of another of the world’s foremost religions — Islam (we’ll leave aside the long history of Christianity tearing down the beliefs of Jews, or of Christian missions sent around the world to convert\/”save” the non-Christians of the planet, regardless of what they currently believe) — it’s hard to take Segelstein seriously here.<\/p>\n

Consider a quick sweep of articles at OneNewNow from other columnists talking about the dangers of Islamic sharia law<\/a>, the menace of the Ground Zero Mosque<\/a>, the threat of Islamic jihad<\/a>, the creeping growth of Islamic populations in America<\/a>, the perpetual outrage felt by Muslims against Christians<\/a> … yes, sometimes there’s a “well, I’m only writing about the BAD Muslims” token disclaimer (Ms Segelstein plays that card herself<\/a>), but it’s all about how Islam isn’t really a proper religion, but a population time bomb of authoritarian terrorists who have the audacity to suggest that religious beliefs would make a good basis for government.<\/p>\n

Turning the clock back a bit, consider Paul, who basically went off to Greece to preach against the false gods of “the world’s foremost religion” in favor of his Christian God.\u00a0 Declaring Zeus a myth would have seemed downright hostile to some, don’t you think?<\/p>\n

But Ms Segelstein still doesn’t get it.<\/p>\n

To my mind, these campaigns feel defensive, as though atheists are weighted down with chips on their shoulders, or feel left out of some club.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Ever seen a bully get hit back?\u00a0 Their immediate reaction isn’t fear (that may come), or anger (that may come, too).\u00a0 It’s outrage, confusion, dismay at a turning around <\/em>of the Established Order of Things.<\/p>\n

Thus, too many Christians (mostly, though not exclusively, on the Right) are outraged about people who disagree with them, who question their facts, who point out where their actions to match their words, who dare suggest that Christians have at times been bullies, or who dare whisper that Christianity might be wrong.\u00a0 How dare they?\u00a0 Sure, many Christians are huge believers in the Great Commission to bring all people to Christ, but it someone dares try to bring someone away <\/em>from Christ …<\/p>\n

Well, they’re just being “defensive.”\u00a0 They have “chips on their shoulders.”\u00a0 Obviously they “feel left out of some club.”<\/p>\n

Yes.\u00a0 That “club” is a society that assumes Christianity as the norm — and anyone who varies from that norm as something Different, Other, something suspicious, a bit sinister, probably a threat (hide your children) … or, at the very least, someone whose “belief system” needs to be “torn down.”<\/p>\n

It’s projection.\u00a0 The folks most appalled at anyone trying to proselytize out of their community, and the most willing to ascribe to that proselytizer dark and threatening motives … are the very ones who see nothing wrong with proselytizing folks into their community.\u00a0 After all, if Christianity is the “norm” and that is “right,” then anything else is “abnormal” and “wrong.”<\/p>\n

Thus, the assertions of theological reality that Christian churchgoers would consider to be innocuous mantras are, in fact, attempts to change someone’s belief system. “Jesus saves!” might sound like a hearty, welcoming, even positive statement to someone who believes in Jesus.\u00a0 To someone who doesn’t, it’s making assertions about one’s spiritual fate (you need to be saved), which religious faith is true (the one associated with Jesus), and the implications of failing to follow that faith (lack of salvation).<\/p>\n

This sets aside more militant Christian billboards<\/a>:<\/p>\n

Oklahoma also has various “God” billboards which purport to pose questions and observations from the Almighty, like: “You think it’s hot here?” and “What part of `Thou shalt not …’ didn’t you understand?” and “Life is short. Eternity isn’t.” <\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

It’s not that such things shouldn’t be said.\u00a0 It’s that some Christians are so blind as to think it’s fine and natural and acceptable for them <\/em>to say “My belief system is true, yours is false, join me” while it’s rude and “hostile” and “intolerant” for someone else <\/em>to say exactly the same thing <\/em>(or even to say, “Hey, if you really don’t believe, that’s okay, you’re not alone”).\u00a0 Especially when it’s (shudder) atheists<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Mote? Meet beam.<\/p>\n

I don’t approve of intolerance, whether from atheists or theists of any stripe. And when the atheist\/humanist world gets the widespread, shrilly intolerant screedifying — accepted, even lauded by the Christian Religious Right — of folks like Peter LaBarbera (a co-columnist at OneNewsNow) or Bryan Fischer, let alone James Dobson, Pat Robertson, or Jerry Falwell — I will criticize it as firmly. In the meantime, insisting that atheists practice a “Don’t Ask, And Really, Truly Don’t Tell” policy on their very minority belief system because it offends Christians who see it as a Dire Threat to their majority … is pretty goofy.<\/p>\n

Speaking of which:<\/p>\n

Christians I know don’t go around declaring that only fellow Christians can be good.\u00a0 And if they do, they’re wrong.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Really, Ms Segelstein?\u00a0 Really? <\/em>You’ve never <\/em>heard that?\u00a0 Every visit the Internet much?<\/p>\n

How about, again, your fellow OneNewsNow columnists, who suggest we can only have a good, moral country if we have<\/a> a Christian country<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Or maybe you’ve heard Christians (some Christians, at least) saying that, no matter how “good” a non-Christian acts, they are condemned to suffer eternal torment in Hell (“You think it’s hot here?”).<\/p>\n

Indeed, Ms Segelstein, as a “reluctant rebel” against the Episcopal Church, you would probably prefer a more strict adherence (as ultra-orthodox Anglicans do) to the Anglicanism’s 39 Articles of Religion<\/a>, the 13th of which pretty much says just what you say you’ve never heard Christians assert:<\/p>\n

XIII. Of Works before Justification: Works done before the grace of Christ, and the Inspiration of his Spirit, are not pleasant to God, forasmuch as they spring not of faith in Jesus Christ; neither do they make men meet to receive grace, or (as the School-authors say) deserve grace of congruity: yea rather, for that they are not done as God hath willed and commanded them to be done, we doubt not but they have the nature of sin.<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

In other words, doing good works without faith in Christ ticks God off. Which I think means “declaring that only Christians can be good.”<\/p>\n

(I don’t believe that, mind you, and I’d say most Episcopalians don’t — but, then, Ms Segelstein is on record criticizing the Episcopal Church “and others which make up the rules instead of obeying them.” So\u00a0 wonder if she “obeys”\/believes in that rule, too.)<\/p>\n

Maybe Christians should launch a kinder, gentler campaign in response.\u00a0 They could quote Timothy Keller, pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in NYC, from his book The Reason for God<\/em> on the subject of common grace: “[E]very act of goodness, wisdom, justice, and beauty is empowered by God….He casts them across all humanity, regardless of religious conviction, race, gender or any other attribute to enrich, brighten and preserve the world.”<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Actually, if more Christians did <\/em>take that tack, I think a lot fewer people would feel that some (many? most?) Christians are as arrogant as we sometimes come across (“Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven”).<\/p>\n

That wouldn’t (and shouldn’t) stop others from making their own assertions as to the metaphysics (or lack thereof) of the universe, or which “myths” are “real,” or of inviting those who might believe the same to come join them (or at least know they are not alone).\u00a0 But it would maybe help establish a climate where we could figure out where we can all get along and discuss some of these questions together.<\/p>\n

God bless us, every one.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Indeed. No matter what color your house is.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how … Continue reading “Defensiveness for Christ”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":19357,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_seopress_analysis_target_kw":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[80,64,27,71],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-19356","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-media-commercial","category-religion-episcopal-church","category-religion","category-religion-me"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/11\/atheist-katie.jpg","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":18745,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2010\/09\/29\/unblogged-bits-wed-29-sep-10-1730.html","url_meta":{"origin":19356,"position":0},"title":"Unblogged Bits (Wed. 29-Sep-10 1730)","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 29-Sep-10 5:30pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Links (most recent first) that caught my eye, but did not warrant full-blown blog entries .... House finally approves Zadroga 9\/11 Health and Compensation Act - \"Just so we're perfectly clear, a month before national elections, 90% of House Republicans voted against health care benefits for sick 9\/11 heroes. Seriously.\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Potpourri"","block_context":{"text":"Potpourri","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/potpourri"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":47933,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2014\/11\/11\/questions-for-atheists-answered-by-someone-whos-not.html","url_meta":{"origin":19356,"position":1},"title":"Questions for Atheists (answered by someone who's not)","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 11-Nov-14 12:28pm","format":false,"excerpt":"I'm not an Atheist (but I've been accused of being one on the Internet).3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/11\/atheist1%5B1%5D.gifimgmax%3D660.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/11\/atheist1%5B1%5D.gifimgmax%3D660.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/11\/atheist1%5B1%5D.gifimgmax%3D660.png?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x"},"classes":[]},{"id":16857,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2010\/03\/07\/some-guy-and-prayer-some-thoughtful-considerations.html","url_meta":{"origin":19356,"position":2},"title":"[Some Guy] and Prayer – some thoughtful considerations","author":"***Dave","date":"Sun 7-Mar-10 1:06am","format":false,"excerpt":"A very nice lady of my acquaintance forwarded me (and some dozens of other people) an essay attributed to Andy Rooney on prayer and how awful it is that all those atheists are so sensitive about someone praying in public. *sigh* First (though it's not all that important) the essay\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Politics & Law"","block_context":{"text":"Politics & Law","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/politics-law"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/images\/church-and-state.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":138347,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2019\/03\/20\/how-too-many-people-learn-all-they-ever-learn-about-islam.html","url_meta":{"origin":19356,"position":3},"title":"How too many people learn all they ever learn about Islam","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 20-Mar-19 12:07am","format":false,"excerpt":"Memes can be funny. But, really, people, they aren't truly educational, let alone accurate.","rel":"","context":"In "Blogging & Internet"","block_context":{"text":"Blogging & Internet","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/03\/quran-meme.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":134105,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/10\/apparently-god-thinks-okay-trump-take-kim-jong-un.html","url_meta":{"origin":19356,"position":4},"title":"Apparently God thinks it’s okay for Trump to take out Kim Jong Un","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 10-Aug-17 3:34pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Well, not that God's made any divine declaration\u00a0on the topic, specifically. But Robert Jeffress, a Texas Baptist megachurch pastor and evangelical confidante of the President, is certain that it's okay. \u201cWhen it comes to how we should deal with evildoers, the Bible, in the book of Romans, is very clear:\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Church & State"","block_context":{"text":"Church & State","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/politics-law\/church-state"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/060609711.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/060609711.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/060609711.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/060609711.jpg?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":1274,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2002\/02\/03\/dont_know_much.html","url_meta":{"origin":19356,"position":5},"title":"Don’t know much about history","author":"***Dave","date":"Sun 3-Feb-02 10:30am","format":false,"excerpt":"Yet another state bill going through another state legislature to hang the Ten Commandments in every classroom. This one, which has cleared a Senate committee in South Carolina, at least...","rel":"","context":"In "Politics & Law"","block_context":{"text":"Politics & Law","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/politics-law"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/19356","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=19356"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/19356\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/19357"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=19356"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=19356"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=19356"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}