{"id":22347,"date":"2011-08-24T23:10:45","date_gmt":"2011-08-25T05:10:45","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/?p=22347"},"modified":"2011-08-24T23:10:45","modified_gmt":"2011-08-25T05:10:45","slug":"sorry-mitt-they-still-arent-people","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2011\/08\/24\/sorry-mitt-they-still-arent-people.html","title":{"rendered":"Sorry, Mitt — they still aren’t people"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"\"<\/a>Mitt Romney tries the warmer, personal approach<\/a>, trying to come across as a Nice Guy who (still)\u00a0just thinks the Corporations (not unlike Soylent Green) are People<\/a>.<\/p>\n

At Wednesday\u2019s town hall, Romney said: \u201cCorporations \u2014 they\u2019re made up of people. They\u2019re just groups of people that come together for work. When you say tax corporations \u2014 the steel and the vinyl and the concrete, they don\u2019t pay taxes. Only people do.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Yes. \u00a0The premium shareholders. \u00a0The CEOs and top officials. They’re “just” people. \u00a0Making very, very big bucks from the very, very big megabucks that the corporations make.<\/p>\n

But, of course, the point of corporations was to limit \u00a0personal responsibility (by people) in the liabilities of the company they formed. \u00a0The people who are receiving the largesse of the corporations aren’t actually the corporation themselves. \u00a0If Exxon-Mobil goes bankrupt, the creditors don’t get to go after the bank accounts of the CEO and the stockholders (though the company pension funds of the janitors and clerks are fair game).<\/p>\n

So, no, Mitt — a corporation isn’t just the people that work for it.<\/p>\n

Further, corporations are taxed on their profits, not their revenues. \u00a0So the “expenses” of, say, the company payroll \u00a0aren’t what a corporate tax is taking away from. \u00a0The folks most directly hurt are those who are in profit-sharing plans, and (I believe — and I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong) those who are getting dividends.<\/p>\n

Now, those profits may be saved to some later time for investment in other business-expanding capabilities, or acquisitions, etc. \u00a0But while taxes can, in fact, affect a corporation in a negative way, and through it the society it operates in, to somehow make that the direct equivalent of affecting the poor, beknighted “groups of people that come together for work” is more than a bit disingenuous.<\/p>\n

\u201cI know there are people that don\u2019t like business,\u201d he said. \u201cI like business. .\u2009.\u2009.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Business is useful. \u00a0It serves a societal role. \u00a0It serves society and the people of society.<\/p>\n

It is not, itself, one of those people. \u00a0It is not drafted. \u00a0It is not endowed by its founders with the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. \u00a0Businesses do not cry, nor laugh. \u00a0If you prick them, they do not bleed. \u00a0They cannot be imprisoned, nor do they possess a soul (or qualia<\/em>).<\/p>\n

I like what business can do as a mechanism. Not as a peer.<\/p>\n

If we go into attacking one another as Americans and criticizing and scapegoating businesses or enterprise or even the financial-services sector or banks, if we find people to go after, we will fall divided.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Really? \u00a0Do we have examples of societies or nations that fell because businesses and banks were criticized? \u00a0Really?<\/p>\n

Businesses are not people (though they are governed by people). \u00a0Businesses have no citizenship — they are not eligible to vote (yet), nor to run for office. They are governed by the laws of the nation, but hold no particular allegiance or nationality, except as might leach through from their founders or operators.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>One cannot attack a business and be rightfully accused of attacking “an American.” \u00a0Business give no pledge to the flag; they simply operate by the laws of the land (in theory) and are subject to civil (not criminal) penalties should they break those laws.<\/p>\n

On the other hand, I wouldn’t suggest “going after” Bank of America, or Goldman-Sachs, or BP, or Exxon-Mobile, or Wal-Mart, for anything in particular — because they aren’t moral agents. They act at the behest of their boards, their executives. \u00a0Those are the folks who bear the moral weight of the actions of the companies and the companies’ workers — and if there is a point to “going after” a given company, it’s to punish those who profit by it.<\/p>\n

As for taxes on corporations, I wouldn’t impose them willy-nilly — to the extent that corporations are useful to society and the people as a whole (and only to that extent), I’m happy to see them prosper.<\/p>\n

On the other hand, I think people should pay taxes, according to their ability. \u00a0And, in just that case, I would say that corporations should indeed be treated like people. If not moreso.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Mitt Romney tries the warmer, personal approach, trying to come across as a Nice Guy who (still)\u00a0just thinks the Corporations (not unlike Soylent Green) are People. At Wednesday\u2019s town hall, Romney said: \u201cCorporations \u2014 they\u2019re made up of people. They\u2019re just groups of people that come together for work. When you say tax corporations \u2014 … Continue reading “Sorry, Mitt — they still aren’t people”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":22350,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_seopress_robots_follow":"","_seopress_robots_imageindex":"","_seopress_robots_snippet":"","_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_robots_breadcrumbs":"","_seopress_robots_freeze_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_custom_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_canonical":"","_seopress_social_fb_title":"","_seopress_social_fb_desc":"","_seopress_social_fb_img":"","_seopress_social_fb_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_height":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_title":"","_seopress_social_twitter_desc":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_height":0,"_seopress_redirections_value":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled_regex":"","_seopress_redirections_logged_status":"","_seopress_redirections_param":"","_seopress_redirections_type":0,"_seopress_analysis_target_kw":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[35,77,99],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-22347","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-big-business","category-economy","category-elections-2012"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/money.gif","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":22138,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2011\/08\/13\/unblogged-bits-sat-13-aug-11-0530.html","url_meta":{"origin":22347,"position":0},"title":"Unblogged Bits (Sat. 13-Aug-11 0530)","author":"***Dave","date":"Sat 13-Aug-11 5:30am","format":false,"excerpt":"Links (most recent first) that caught my eye, but did not warrant full-blown blog entries .... How to Lose Allies and Alienate People - NYTimes.com - Being a dick has consequences. Romney defends \u2018corporations are people\u2019 remark from Political Intelligence - No, Mitt -- corporations are a legal fiction, a\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Potpourri"","block_context":{"text":"Potpourri","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/potpourri"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":28529,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/07\/11\/too-many-secrets-mitt.html","url_meta":{"origin":22347,"position":1},"title":"Too many secrets, Mitt","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 11-Jul-12 3:11pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Mitt has supporters among the African-American\u00a0leaders, but they're afraid of coming out for him. \u00a0How encouraging\u00a0that must be.Reshared post from +Talking Points MemoMitt Romney says he has secret black supporters Embedded Link Mitt Romney: I Have Secret Black Supporters Mitt Romney told Fox News Wednesday that black leaders support him,\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":22100,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2011\/08\/11\/unblogged-bits-thu-11-aug-11-1730.html","url_meta":{"origin":22347,"position":2},"title":"Unblogged Bits (Thu. 11-Aug-11 1730)","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 11-Aug-11 5:30pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Links (most recent first) that caught my eye, but did not warrant full-blown blog entries .... Attacks on Science Education Intensify: \u201cThere Seems To Be a Lynch-Mob Hate Against Any Teacher Trying to Teach Climate Change\u201d - \"You\u2019re not just instilling denial. You\u2019re creating the next generation of political dysfunction.\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Potpourri"","block_context":{"text":"Potpourri","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/potpourri"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":27563,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/04\/25\/fair-is-fair.html","url_meta":{"origin":22347,"position":3},"title":"Fair is Fair","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 25-Apr-12 10:15am","format":false,"excerpt":"Romney is harping on \"fairness\" -- which is kind of funny, because the Right has tended to always pooh-pooh \"fairness\" as being un-American. \"Life isn't fair,\" we're told, and \"this is a just, world, not a fair world,\" and \"Fairness is a code word for communism\" and other drivel.Of course,\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":23544,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2011\/11\/07\/stop-me-if-youve-heard-this-electoral-argument-before.html","url_meta":{"origin":22347,"position":4},"title":"Stop me if you've heard this electoral argument before","author":"***Dave","date":"Mon 7-Nov-11 8:27pm","format":false,"excerpt":"One consistent that has cropped up over every presidential election for the past decade or three has been the threat that The Next President Will Select Supreme Court Justices. So, with the election just one year away, cue arguments that \"we must elect X in order to protect\/change the nature\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"http:\/\/images0-focus-opensocial.googleusercontent.com\/gadgets\/proxy?container=focus&gadget=a&resize_h=100&url=http%3A%2F%2Fthinkprogress.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F11%2Fromney-money-300x234.jpg","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":28939,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/08\/09\/romney-thinks-its-cool-that-all-those-public-sector-workers-have-been-laid.html","url_meta":{"origin":22347,"position":5},"title":"Romney thinks it's cool that all those public sector workers have been laid …","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 9-Aug-12 6:27pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Romney thinks it's cool that all those public sector workers have been laid offBecause, y'know, they're inefficient.Of course, they're also non-profit. \u00a0And I think you'll find in a many\u00a0of cases that privatized services, for profit, are more costly to the person paying the bill than public services (see: Arizona's private\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/22347","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=22347"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/22347\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/22350"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=22347"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=22347"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=22347"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}