{"id":22780,"date":"2011-09-25T00:32:27","date_gmt":"2011-09-25T06:32:27","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/?p=22780"},"modified":"2014-11-10T15:46:08","modified_gmt":"2014-11-10T22:46:08","slug":"albert-mohler-is-a-dolt-death-is-life-edition","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2011\/09\/25\/albert-mohler-is-a-dolt-death-is-life-edition.html","title":{"rendered":"Albert Mohler is a Dolt (Death is Life Edition)"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"\"<\/a>
Albert Mohler, Dolt<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Albert Mohler<\/a> is the President of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, a board member of Focus on the Family, and a major figure in Baptist \/ Evangelical \/ Fundamentalist theology. \u00a0Which is why this sort of thing so seriously chaps my hide. \u00a0Because people read this, and say, “Hey, here’s the official teaching of Christianity and Christ on Topic X,” ignoring that Mohler’s a dolt and no more speaks for Christ than, oh, I<\/em> do.<\/p>\n

(No, rumors to the contrary, I don’t think I speak for Christ. At most, I try to speak to my understanding of what I think Christ had to say, as reflected in the New Testament.)<\/p>\n

In this case, Topic X is “Capital Punishment.”<\/p>\n

Christians (American ones, at least) are by no means unanimous on the morality of the death penalty. \u00a0Some are deeply troubled by the morality of state-sanctioned killing. \u00a0Some are concerned that the application of the death penalty is so arbitrary and fraught with bias that it cannot be considered just. \u00a0Some consider capital punishment a function of the state, and so outside the bounds of religion — and properly allowed, per “rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar’s.”<\/p>\n

Of course, there’s also the whole “Jesus was executed, legally, by the state, so maybe Christians might want to consider how eager they are to execute people, too” thing.<\/p>\n

And then there are folks like Albert Mohler, who attempt to justify capital punishment based on Christian principles. To argue that it is, in fact, a moral command. As described by the Associated Baptist Press<\/a>:<\/p>\n

A Southern Baptist seminary president says that according to the Bible, capital punishment is pro-life.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Yes, because there’s life<\/em>, and then there’s life<\/em>, and it is obviously up to humans to determine which killings are pro-, and which are anti-life.<\/p>\n

\u201cThe death penalty is not about retribution,\u201d Albert Mohler, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, said in a podcast Sept. 22.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Hold that thought, Albert.<\/p>\n

I’ll note, by the way, that it’s funny that we keep talking about justifying the death penalty by “an eye for an eye” or for the sake of the victims’ families getting “closure” and “justice” … if the death penalty is not, in fact, about retribution.<\/p>\n

\u201cIt is first of all about underlining the importance of every single human life.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Including the ones we decide it’s okay to end, I guess.<\/p>\n

Mohler, who has a Ph.D. in theology, …<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Well, then, heck, he must be a holy man.<\/p>\n

… said in Genesis 9, where capital punishment is mandated for murder, \u201cit is precisely because the taking of one human life by another means that the murderer has effectively, morally and theologically, forfeited his own right to live.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Ah. \u00a0We will base our theology of capital punishment on … Genesis 9? \u00a0Genesis 9:5-6<\/a> in particular, I assume:<\/p>\n

<\/em><\/p>\n

And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man’s brother will I require the life of man. <\/em>Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.<\/em><\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Which seems pretty straightforward.<\/p>\n

Of course the preceding passages have specified that every living creature is now specified for food for humans (Gen. 9:2-3, this despite later restrictions on what living creatures could be rightfully consumed), and that it’s not allowable to eat meat with blood still within it (Gen. 9:4, which is the foundation for Kosher butchery laws).<\/p>\n

For some reason, Christians reject Kosher laws of butchery, but accept that they can eat everything and that killers should be killed.<\/p>\n

Of course, Genesis 9 (as quoted above) doesn’t provide exemptions for, oh, self-defense. Or war. Or, in fact, for execution itself.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
One wouldn't think Jesus would be a huge fan of legal execution.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

One could look, rather than at Genesis 9, at the New Testament. \u00a0There might run across Matthew 26:52<\/a>, where it’s noted that those who live by the sword will die by it. \u00a0Or John 8:7<\/a>, where Jesus’ one commentary on a capital crime being that only those who are without sin should consider actually executing others.<\/p>\n

Or there’s that whole execution of Christ thing. \u00a0Granted, he was killed for blasphemy and setting himself up as king, not for murder. \u00a0But one would still think that would affect a Christian’s thinking on judicial execution.<\/p>\n

But Albert seems \u00a0to think that killing any killer is sanctioned by the Almighty Himself.<\/p>\n

Of course, the Genesis passage doesn’t differentiate between types of killing. \u00a0Vehicular homicide would seem as likely to warrant death as a mass slaughter of children … or negligent managers of mines where workers die as likely to be executed as cop-killers.<\/p>\n

Is that what you’re arguing for, Albert?<\/p>\n

\u201cThe death penalty is intended to affirm the value [and] sanctity of every single human life, and thus by the extremity of the penalty to make that visible and apparent to all,\u201d Mohler said.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

We had to destroy the village in order to save it. \u00a0We had to take life in order to demonstrate how much life is valued.<\/p>\n

Um … what?<\/p>\n

Mohler said the differing reactions to two executions carried out a day earlier illustrated \u201chow fickle we are in terms of our understanding of justice.\u201d Thousands of people protested Georgia\u2019s execution of Troy Davis, a black man convicted of murdering a white police officer on evidence his supporters said was shaky. At the same time, an execution in Texas of a white supremacist for the infamous dragging death of an African-American 13 years ago received far less attention.<\/p>\n

“It seems that even those who oppose the death penalty outright believe there are some cases that ought to be opposed more than others,\u201d Mohler said.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

It’s quite true that there was a lot of difference between reactions to the two executions. \u00a0That’s because opposition to the death penalty is not monolithic in its basis. \u00a0Some folks think it’s always wrong (or always too uncertain to justify). Others consider the individual circumstances — that, yes, there are some cases where it is justified by the crime and<\/em> by the certainty that the person on Death Row is in fact the guilty party.<\/p>\n

In this case, there was no particular question about\u00a0Lawrence Brewer being guilty of his particular heinous crime. No witnesses recanted their testimony, no jurors their judgment. \u00a0There was plenty of physical evidence. \u00a0From my understanding, to the extent that such things can be certain, Brewer’s guilt was.<\/p>\n

The same cannot be said of Davis, convicted solely on eyewitness testimony, much of it recanted afterward, in a case riddled with procedural irregularities. It’s understandable that even folks who support the death penalty in principle would have problems with the Troy Davis execution.<\/p>\n

(I hold no truck with cop killers. Indeed, I even support the idea that cop killers deserve a special circumstances punishment, as killing of a police officer may well be not just a killing, but a strike against society more broadly. \u00a0But I have no desire to see someone executed, even for cop-killing, who is not guilty.)<\/p>\n

\u201cAnd even those who support the death penalty almost always support the death penalty within certain, very clear, parameters. Even if those parameters are not defined by policy, they are defined by moral intuition. There is something within us that cries out for the fact that murder must be punished and that the lives of the innocent, in terms of being the victims of these crimes, must indeed be vindicated.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Murder must be punished. But not necessarily by killing the killer.<\/p>\n

And, Albert, so how would you differentiate between “retribution” (which you said the death penalty was not about) and “vindication”?<\/p>\n

\"Torches<\/a>
Ah, the "moral intuition" of the masses ...<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

And, with all due respect, “moral intuition” is a poor basis for criminal law. Because my moral intuition may be different from yours — or from Albert Mohler’s. \u00a0Or, say, Lawrence Brewer’s.<\/p>\n

Mohler predicted the death penalty will become more and more controversial in the years ahead because the \u201cgeneral trend of secularization and moral confusion has undermined the kind of moral and cultural consensus that makes the death penalty make sense.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

I.e., “Once upon a time, everyone agreed that we should Kill the Beast. Now we’re not so unanimous, and that’s a bad thing.”<\/p>\n

Disagreement and “confusion” aren’t necessarily an un-useful thing. \u00a0And certainly aren’t necessarily a sign of evil. \u00a0“Cultural consensus” justified slavery and the auto-da-fe, <\/em>too.<\/p>\n

He said societal attitudes about issues such as abortion and euthanasia indicate \u201cwe really do not now have the bedrock shared consensus that every single human life is a life made in the image of God and that every single human life at every stage of development is to be honored and protected and preserved.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Except, of course, for human lives that are judged guilty of particular crimes, which are magically rendered\u00a0expendable.<\/p>\n

\u201cThat more than anything else explains today\u2019s confusion about the death penalty,\u201d he said.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Which would be believable, Alfred, if even Christians had a largely unanimous position on capital punishment. \u00a0But that’s hardly true. \u00a0The Catholic Church, for one, has a long opposition in modern times to capital punishment<\/a> — they see their pro-life mission as being for all <\/em>human life, regardless of circumstance.<\/p>\n

Even the article quoted includes a Baptist dissenter to Mohler’s theological conclusion.<\/p>\n

Alan Bean, a white Baptist minister who runs Friends of Justice, an organization opposed to racial and socioeconomic inequities in America\u2019s criminal-justice system, took a different view. He accused the state of Georgia of murder.<\/p>\n

\u201cI don\u2019t use the m-word casually or for rhetorical effect,\u201d said Bean, a member of Broadway Baptist Church in Fort Worth, Texas. \u201cBut when it is no longer possible to distinguish guilt from innocence, when the state\u2019s case lies in tatters and everybody knows it, there is no civil justification for taking a life.\u201d<\/p>\n

Blogging Wednesday night, Bean said, \u201cState-sanctioned killing is never morally justified, but even those who support capital punishment in the abstract should have grave concerns about what happened tonight in Jackson, Ga.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

And, of course, I, as a Christian, object. I don’t feel particularly “confused’ about it — though doing a blog post like this lets me explore my beliefs and reasoning on the subject.<\/p>\n

So what about the premise that the system itself is so flawed that, even if the death penalty is morally justified in the abstract, its application cannot be trusted in the particular.<\/p>\n

Mohler agreed that if socioeconomic disparity makes some persons more likely to be executed than others \u201cthat certainly should be of concern to Christians.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Gee, Albert, y’think?<\/p>\n

But he said the Georgia Board of Pardons and Paroles concluded with the courts that the evidence against Davis was sufficient to prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Because, of course, the George Board of Pardons and Paroles would never be subject to political influence, nor to a desire to demonstrate that the system they are part of is correct and righteous.<\/p>\n

In such a case, what is the actual harm done by granting clemency, life without possibility of parole — where, if there is exonerating evidence, now or in the future, it can be considered. \u00a0Why should the state act to end any such consideration? \u00a0Why are we to consider ourselves without sin, to cast that stone?<\/p>\n

Mohler also said that because of advances in forensic investigation, wrongful convictions are less likely now than in the past.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

It’s lovely to think so, of course. \u00a0And, of course, in the Davis case, the conviction was not based on any forensic evidence, but on eyewitness testimony, gathered in questionable fashion, and much subsequently recanted.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
Because Jesus was all in favor of executing capital criminals, right?<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Albert, I understand the desire to think that the authorities are always right, and fair, and just. \u00a0But we know, unless we are blind, that is not always the case. \u00a0The authorities — police, DA office, parole board, etc. — are subject to the frailties of humanity, any of which can lead to an error, or even a malicious act. Would Baptist theology deny such a thing might happen, Albert?<\/p>\n

With such a possibility, Albert, on what basis can we morally \u00a0justify, particularly (but not exclusively) in cases where there are such questions raised, the ultimate sanction against a fellow human being? How can we make it a Christian imperative? \u00a0How can we possibly cast (as Jesus himself would put it) the first stone?<\/p>\n

(via ThinkProgress<\/a> and Friendly Atheist<\/a> and Stan<\/a>)<\/small><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Albert Mohler is the President of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, a board member of Focus on the Family, and a major figure in Baptist \/ Evangelical \/ Fundamentalist theology. \u00a0Which is why this sort of thing so seriously chaps my hide. \u00a0Because people read this, and say, “Hey, here’s the official teaching of Christianity and … Continue reading “Albert Mohler is a Dolt (Death is Life Edition)”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":22783,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_seopress_robots_follow":"","_seopress_robots_imageindex":"","_seopress_robots_snippet":"","_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_robots_breadcrumbs":"","_seopress_robots_freeze_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_custom_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_canonical":"","_seopress_social_fb_title":"","_seopress_social_fb_desc":"","_seopress_social_fb_img":"","_seopress_social_fb_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_height":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_title":"","_seopress_social_twitter_desc":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_height":0,"_seopress_redirections_value":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled_regex":"","_seopress_redirections_logged_status":"","_seopress_redirections_param":"","_seopress_redirections_type":0,"_seopress_analysis_target_kw":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[715,9,27],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-22780","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-crime-punishment","category-politics-law","category-religion"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/09\/dore-crucifixionofjesus.jpg","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":128454,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/10\/27\/rand-paul-is-a-dolt-albert-einstein-said-so.html","url_meta":{"origin":22780,"position":0},"title":"Rand Paul is a Dolt (Albert Einstein said so!)","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 27-Oct-15 11:45pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Actually, Albert Einstein said \"Anyone who doesn\u2019t take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either.\"(Well, more or less. See http:\/\/quoteinvestigator.com\/2014\/04\/15\/large-truth\/ for more information.)Rand Paul seems to think that it's \"pedantry\" that a quote that \"everyone know\" came from someone famous isn't actually believe to have\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":49297,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/01\/21\/bryan-fischer-is-a-dolt-i-know-true-followers-of-christ-edition.html","url_meta":{"origin":22780,"position":1},"title":"Bryan Fischer Is a Dolt (I Know True Followers of Christ Edition)","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 21-Jan-15 5:52am","format":false,"excerpt":"Bryan, you know who gets to decide who is a true follower of Christ? Yeah, that would be Christ. I think I'll wait to hear what he says.Though, in the meantime, I'd love to hear your exegesis of the Gospels that leads you to say, viz homosexuality, \"Christ and his\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":129516,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2016\/01\/20\/mike-pitts-is-a-dolt-freedom-of-the-press-edition.html","url_meta":{"origin":22780,"position":2},"title":"Mike Pitts is a Dolt (Freedom of the Press Edition)","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 20-Jan-16 9:11am","format":false,"excerpt":"Does anyone else see the irony in an ostensibly conservative politician filing legislation to create a state registry of journalists, to define what the requirements are to be a journalist before one can be hired, and to fine people and organizations who violate state journalistic regulations?Would South Carolina Rep. Mike\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":49227,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/01\/10\/bryan-fischer-is-a-dolt-blame-charlie-edition.html","url_meta":{"origin":22780,"position":3},"title":"Bryan Fischer is a Dolt: Blame Charlie Edition","author":"***Dave","date":"Sat 10-Jan-15 10:37am","format":false,"excerpt":"Bryan, all I have to say is that if God were actively orchestrating misfortune and\/or terrorists to punish those whose pride and perversity make a mockery of Christ ... you might be in a lot of trouble. Originally shared by +Ginny Gibbs: Bryan Fischer Is a Dolt: Hebdo BlasphemyHat tip\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":128305,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/10\/13\/mike-huckabee-is-a-dolt.html","url_meta":{"origin":22780,"position":4},"title":"Mike Huckabee is a dolt","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 13-Oct-15 10:55pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Mike Huckabee is a dolt And not many years of avuncular Daily Show appearances can overcome that. https:\/\/twitter.com\/PoliticalLine\/status\/654117563115393024 View on Twitter","rel":"","context":"In "~Tweets"","block_context":{"text":"~Tweets","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/tweets"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":131146,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2016\/07\/27\/donald-trump-is-a-dolt-from-russia-with-love-edition.html","url_meta":{"origin":22780,"position":5},"title":"Donald Trump is a Dolt (From Russia with Love Edition)","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 27-Jul-16 10:16am","format":false,"excerpt":"So, just to be sure I have this straight, Donald Trump, the GOP Nominee for President of the United States ...1. Hopes Russia hacked Secretary of State Clinton's official email system, so that they can release the \"30,000 emails that are missing\" for the benefit of the American press.2. 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