{"id":24935,"date":"2011-12-30T10:23:57","date_gmt":"2011-12-30T17:23:57","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2011\/12\/30\/is-discriminating-against-discrimination-discrimination.html"},"modified":"2011-12-30T16:03:20","modified_gmt":"2011-12-30T23:03:20","slug":"is-discriminating-against-discrimination-discrimination","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2011\/12\/30\/is-discriminating-against-discrimination-discrimination.html","title":{"rendered":"Is discriminating against discrimination discrimination?"},"content":{"rendered":"

Not when it's Your Tax Dollars At Work, in my opinion. <\/p>\n

'Anthony R. Picarello Jr., general counsel and associate general secretary of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, disagreed. \u201cIt\u2019s true that the church doesn\u2019t have a First Amendment right to have a government contract,\u201d he said, \u201cbut it does have a First Amendment right not to be excluded from a contract based on its religious beliefs.\u201d'<\/i><\/p>\n

Taken to its conclusion, though, that principle results in no difference between the two clauses. If the state of Illinois said, "We won't allow Catholics to bid on these contracts," that would be clearly illegal religious intolerance. But the restrictions are on actions<\/i> by a contractor that violate state law. If the Church was saying that, based on its religious code, it was only going to adopt kids out to Catholic parents in good standing, or to parents who only voted for certain candidates, or (in the case of other religious denominations) to parents who were white, or not of mixed race, or anyone but Jews, etc., then there'd be no question that the state should be able to reject their bid on that basis, or require them to change their policy as a condition of obtaining public money from all taxpayers.<\/i><\/p>\n

Which, really, is the bottom line here: the issue is not whether Catholics should be able to discriminate however they want as a private adoption agency, but whether they should be able to get government funding (i.e., money from all the taxpayers) to do so, regardless of their practices. If<\/i> the Church thinks its mission to children is that urgent and their moral teachings that inviolable, then they need to do so without asking for state funds.<\/p>\n

All of this is a fine set of arguments in favor of church\/state separation. Because here's a case where the church has become dependent on state financing ("Catholic Charities affiliates received a total of nearly $2.9 billion a year from the government in 2010, about 62 percent of its annual revenue of $4.67 billion"),<\/i> and now it's face with either trying to make the state bend to church teachings ("give us the money, whether or not it would be legal for anyone else to do what we do") or bend church teachings to obey the state. A lose-lose for everyone, it seems to me. #ddtb<\/p>\n

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Embedded Link<\/strong><\/p>\n

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\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tBishops Say Rules on Gay Parents Limit Freedom of Religion<\/a>
\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tRoman Catholic bishops see a fight over adoption rules in Illinois as part of an escalating campaign by the government to trample on their religious freedom.\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n

\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Not when it's Your Tax Dollars At Work, in my opinion. 'Anthony R. Picarello Jr., general counsel and associate general secretary of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, disagreed. \u201cIt\u2019s true that the church doesn\u2019t have a First Amendment right to have a government contract,\u201d he said, \u201cbut it does have a First Amendment … Continue reading “Is discriminating against discrimination discrimination?”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_seopress_robots_follow":"","_seopress_robots_imageindex":"","_seopress_robots_snippet":"","_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_robots_breadcrumbs":"","_seopress_robots_freeze_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_custom_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_canonical":"","_seopress_social_fb_title":"","_seopress_social_fb_desc":"","_seopress_social_fb_img":"","_seopress_social_fb_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_height":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_title":"","_seopress_social_twitter_desc":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_height":0,"_seopress_redirections_value":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled_regex":"","_seopress_redirections_logged_status":"","_seopress_redirections_param":"","_seopress_redirections_type":0,"_seopress_analysis_target_kw":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[106,109],"tags":[107],"class_list":["post-24935","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-plusposts","category-church-state","tag-ddtb"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":138767,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2019\/05\/14\/the-banning-of-segregation.html","url_meta":{"origin":24935,"position":0},"title":"The Banning of Segregation","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 14-May-19 12:10am","format":false,"excerpt":"As a nation we once stood against discrimination, even when dressed up as \"religious freedom\"","rel":"","context":"In "~Tweets"","block_context":{"text":"~Tweets","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/tweets"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":135269,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2017\/11\/02\/coming-soon-pulpit-near-vote-guy.html","url_meta":{"origin":24935,"position":1},"title":"Coming soon to a pulpit near you: “Vote for This Guy”","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 2-Nov-17 11:04pm","format":false,"excerpt":"While it didn't make a big splash in the initial analysis of the House tax reform bill, one provision in there is interesting and disappointing in both small and large ways. The GOP bill will repeal the Johnson Amendment which, back in the 1950s, basically said that a church (or\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"Trump and Bible","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/Trump-and-Bible.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":127506,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/08\/14\/cake-baker-is-still-guilty-of-unlawful-discrimination.html","url_meta":{"origin":24935,"position":2},"title":"Cake baker is (still) guilty of unlawful discrimination","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 14-Aug-15 12:51am","format":false,"excerpt":"The Colorado Court of Appeals upheld (again) the ruling that a Lakewood baker who refused to bake a cake for a gay couple wanting to celebrate their (Massachussetts) wedding is guilty of discrimination under Colorado law.'The appeals court wrote that the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act \"does not compel Masterpiece to support\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":130577,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2016\/05\/03\/religious-freedom-requires-defining-religion.html","url_meta":{"origin":24935,"position":3},"title":"Religious freedom requires defining religion","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 3-May-16 7:23am","format":false,"excerpt":"Interesting article here (if not one I fully agree with) on municipalities looking more closely at facilities owned by organizations and trying to determine which ones are legitimate religious efforts, to be exempted from taxation, vs. which ones are simple commercial efforts, to be be treated (and taxed) like any\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":134599,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2017\/09\/07\/trump-sessions-justice-dept-files-brief-favor-anti-gay-baker.html","url_meta":{"origin":24935,"position":4},"title":"Trump \/ Sessions Justice Dept. files a brief in favor of anti-gay baker","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 7-Sep-17 10:05pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Because of course they did. The case Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission will be heard before the Supreme Court. When Phillips designs and creates a custom wedding cake for a specific couple and a specific wedding, he plays an active role in enabling that ritual, and he associates\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/unnamed-18.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":27269,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/03\/28\/freedom-of-practice-isnt-freedom-of-receiving-money.html","url_meta":{"origin":24935,"position":5},"title":"Freedom of practice isn't freedom of receiving money","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 28-Mar-12 11:26pm","format":false,"excerpt":"If the federal government puts forward a contract for providing certain services, and a church that doesn't believe in some of those services bids for and loses the contract because of that, that isn't religious discrimination -- any more than if the Quakers bid on a missile contract but were\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/24935","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=24935"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/24935\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=24935"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=24935"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=24935"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}