{"id":31530,"date":"2012-11-28T11:42:55","date_gmt":"2012-11-28T18:42:55","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/11\/28\/rick-warren-gayness-and-having-the-right-argument.html"},"modified":"2012-11-28T11:42:55","modified_gmt":"2012-11-28T18:42:55","slug":"rick-warren-gayness-and-having-the-right-argument","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/11\/28\/rick-warren-gayness-and-having-the-right-argument.html","title":{"rendered":"Rick Warren, Gayness, and Having\u00a0the Right Argument"},"content":{"rendered":"

Rick Warren covers his bases here by fundamentally (so to speak) arguing that whether or not homosexuality is "natural" (like arsenic) or an impulse\/desire (like punching a guy in the nose), that doesn't make it right. \u00a0And, frankly, he's correct: arguing that something is what you want to do, or what you are naturally compelled to do — neither makes a wrong act moral or ethical or constructive or "right."<\/p>\n

But Warren can only make the argument by skipping over an important part: his\u00a0premise that homosexuality is wrong<\/i> and cannot therefore be defended based on it being either innate or a voluntary desire. Because, to apply Warren's own arguments, innate impulses or \u00a0voluntary desires are not intrinsically right or<\/i>\u00a0wrong in and of themselves.<\/p>\n

The argument should be over the question, "Is homosexuality intrinsically wrong?" Because whatever the answer is, the origin of homosexual orientation\u00a0(genetic, congenital, or simply a matter of taste) doesn't really matter. \u00a0And to make such a judgment requires proof along some objective criteria that we can all agree with.<\/p>\n

And, by the way, Rick — in such a discussion, your<\/i>\u00a0interpretations\u00a0of your particular religion's holy book serve only as a basis for your<\/i> personal moral decisions, not for public policy or law. Unless you want to let all<\/i>\u00a0religions, and non-religious, have a say in what we eat, how we dress, who we can marry, what we keep holy, etc.<\/p>\n

Reshared post from +Think Progress<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n

Stay classy!<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

\n

Embedded Link<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n

\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tRick Warren: Being Gay Is Like \u2018Punching A Guy In The Nose\u2019 Or Consuming Arsenic<\/a>
\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tMegachurch pastor Rick Warren remains as ill-informed on gay identity as ever. Unfazed by the notion that there may be a biological cause for homosexuality, Warren told Piers Morgan on CNN this week t…\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n

Google+:<\/strong> View post on Google+<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Rick Warren covers his bases here by fundamentally (so to speak) arguing that whether or not homosexuality is "natural" (like arsenic) or an impulse\/desire (like punching a guy in the nose), that doesn't make it right. \u00a0And, frankly, he's correct: arguing that something is what you want to do, or what you are naturally compelled … Continue reading “Rick Warren, Gayness, and Having\u00a0the Right Argument”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_seopress_robots_follow":"","_seopress_robots_imageindex":"","_seopress_robots_snippet":"","_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_robots_breadcrumbs":"","_seopress_robots_freeze_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_custom_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_canonical":"","_seopress_social_fb_title":"","_seopress_social_fb_desc":"","_seopress_social_fb_img":"","_seopress_social_fb_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_height":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_title":"","_seopress_social_twitter_desc":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_height":0,"_seopress_redirections_value":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled_regex":"","_seopress_redirections_logged_status":"","_seopress_redirections_param":"","_seopress_redirections_type":0,"_seopress_analysis_target_kw":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[106],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-31530","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-plusposts"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":3792,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2003\/03\/27\/taint_natural.html","url_meta":{"origin":31530,"position":0},"title":"‘Tain’t natural!","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 27-Mar-03 3:02pm","format":false,"excerpt":"A nice analysis by Eugene Volokh on why the whole \"homosexuality is wrong because it isn't natural\" argument is a bit difficult to understand. What, after all, does \"unnatural\" mean?...","rel":"","context":"In "LGBTQ &c"","block_context":{"text":"LGBTQ &c","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/gay-stuff"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":25139,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/01\/05\/why-is-rick-santorum-so-obsessed-about-polygamy.html","url_meta":{"origin":31530,"position":1},"title":"Why is Rick Santorum so obsessed about polygamy?","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 5-Jan-12 6:00pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Actually, it's not just Rick -- it's a standard slipperty-slope meme on the Social Conservative Right that gay marriage will lead to legalized polygamy, thence (as Rick is more famous for suggesting) to bestiality and, even, a single-payer medical care system.But the argument always seems to start with polygamy, which\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":27347,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/04\/10\/rick-warren-apparently-drinks-the-david-barton-kool-aid.html","url_meta":{"origin":31530,"position":2},"title":"Rick Warren apparently drinks the David Barton Kool-Aid","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 10-Apr-12 4:40pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Barton is infamously doltish for arguing, chapter and verse (poorly and unorthodoxly interpreted, IMO) that government -- that is, collective, societal -- help for the poor among us is unfair, unjust, and un-Biblical. Rick Warren, mega-pastor at the Saddleback mega-church in Orange Co., Calif., is apparently right there with him.\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":13429,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2008\/12\/17\/modern_donatism.html","url_meta":{"origin":31530,"position":3},"title":"Modern Donatism","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 17-Dec-08 11:13pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Not many people know these days about the Donatist Heresy, but the battle over it (i.e., what got it eventually officially labeled a \"heresy\") was a key development in Christianity....","rel":"","context":"In "Elections 2008"","block_context":{"text":"Elections 2008","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/politics-law\/elections-2008"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":13466,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2008\/12\/04\/casting_the_first_stone.html","url_meta":{"origin":31530,"position":4},"title":"Casting the first stone","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 4-Dec-08 8:16pm","format":false,"excerpt":"The Vatican is dead wrong on this. Unfortunately, that will mean some other deaths, too. Gay rights groups and newspaper editorials on Tuesday condemned the Vatican for its decision to...","rel":"","context":"In "Crime & Punishment"","block_context":{"text":"Crime & Punishment","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/politics-law\/crime-punishment"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":31710,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/12\/11\/antonin-scalia-moralist.html","url_meta":{"origin":31530,"position":5},"title":"Antonin Scalia, Moralist","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 11-Dec-12 10:54am","format":false,"excerpt":"Okay, I sort of get what Scalia is saying here. Maybe. If he means that all law is built on morality (even to concepts like protecting innocent life and justice), and that if moral disagreement\u00a0over homosexuality is not sufficient\u00a0for legislatures to ban it, then how do we justify banning bestiality,\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/31530","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=31530"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/31530\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=31530"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=31530"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=31530"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}