{"id":33229,"date":"2013-04-17T18:26:21","date_gmt":"2013-04-18T00:26:21","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2013\/04\/17\/extremism-about-extremism.html"},"modified":"2013-04-18T07:34:35","modified_gmt":"2013-04-18T13:34:35","slug":"extremism-about-extremism","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2013\/04\/17\/extremism-about-extremism.html","title":{"rendered":"Extremism about Extremism"},"content":{"rendered":"
So there is supposed to have been a US Army Reserve training PowerPoint deck somewhere that labeled some groups as being part of Religious Extremism. \u00a0The story appears to have first broken in the UK's Daily Mail<\/i> (http:\/\/goo.gl\/7m8D3<\/a>).<\/p>\n

The presentation identifies "extremist organizations" \u00a0as 'A group which advocates the use of force or violence, advocates supremacist causes; based on ethnicity, religion, gender or national origin; or otherwise engages in efforts to deprive individuals or groups of their civil rights.'<\/i><\/p>\n

While there are a number of groups on the list that most folks would consider extremist, more than a few evangelical Christians and Catholics (and, per Google, some Ultra-Orthodox Jews) are kind of peeved that they are included on the same list as the KKK, Al Qa'eda, and Hutaree.<\/p>\n

I'm of mixed sentiment on this one, because the facts are that (a) there are elements in all of those mainstream religions who are<\/i> extremist — against those of other religions, or gays, or women, etc. \u00a0The problem is that, of course, the average Catholic-on-the-street is substantively different from a Christian Identity zealot. And holding opinions about moral<\/i> superiority is not quite<\/i> the same as fighting a "supremacist cause", and religious freedom in this country does sort of let people seek legal legislative routes toward "depriving individuals or groups [e.g., women, gays, Muslims] of their civil rights."\u00a0<\/p>\n

(We'll leave aside that the outrage of the groups mentioned above tends to be about their own faith being included. They seemed — or were explicitly — more than happy to lump all Sunni Muslims in as "religious extremists.")<\/p>\n

"The Army Reserve presentation defines religious extremism as 'beliefs, attitudes, feelings, actions, or strategies of a character far removed from the "ordinary."' It concedes that 'ordinary' is a subjective term, but condemns religious Americans 'who believe that their beliefs, customs and traditions are the only "right way" and that all others are practicing their faith the "wrong way," seeing and believing that their faith\/religion [is] superior to all others.'"<\/i><\/p>\n

In my opinion, that probably crosses the line from useful to objectionable, if only because it's such a broad brush. \u00a0And there is<\/i> a difference between folks who think they are right and others are wrong (most humans), those who seek legal means of enforcing that (many humans), and those who turn to violence to make it so (what most folks would consider religious extremism — though that raises the question of folks like the Westboro Baptist Church). And since the presentation also says that Army Reserve members should not participate in such organizations, those distinctions should matter.<\/p>\n

The Daily Mail<\/i> (the UK's equivalent of the New York Post)<\/i> article seems to be the source of all the subsequent brouhaha, and there's not any\u00a0more to the story as to the source of the material, how widespread its use was, etc. I'd be curious as to any other substantive<\/i> information about the story.<\/div>\n

<\/a><\/span><\/div>\n

View this post on Google+<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

So there is supposed to have been a US Army Reserve training PowerPoint deck somewhere that labeled some groups as being part of Religious Extremism. \u00a0The story appears to have first broken in the UK's Daily Mail (http:\/\/goo.gl\/7m8D3). The presentation identifies "extremist organizations" \u00a0as 'A group which advocates the use of force or violence, advocates … Continue reading “Extremism about Extremism”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[106,109,110],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-33229","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-plusposts","category-church-state","category-religious-zanies"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":130713,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2016\/05\/20\/on-the-advantages-of-extremism-with-john-cleese.html","url_meta":{"origin":33229,"position":0},"title":"On the Advantages of Extremism (with John Cleese)","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 20-May-16 5:25am","format":false,"excerpt":"It's great! It makes you feel good! There are very bad persons out there -- here's a list -- and therefore it's fully justified being an extremist! Just listen to John Cleese! He'll set you straight! View on Google+","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":129144,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/12\/15\/gimme-that-old-time-religion.html","url_meta":{"origin":33229,"position":1},"title":"Gimme that Old Time Religion","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 15-Dec-15 11:02pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Zoroastrianism is staging a come-back in Kurdistan, apparently a result of both growing Kurdish nationalism, ire at the Islamic extremism of Da'esh, and disgust with the variety of contending Islamic groups clamoring for allegiance. Thanks to Islamic extremism, Iraqi Kurds revive ancient Kurdish Zoroastrianism religion ERBIL-Hewler, Kurdistan region 'Iraq',\u2014 The\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":131257,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2016\/08\/13\/on-the-terroristic-threat-of-burkinis.html","url_meta":{"origin":33229,"position":2},"title":"On the terroristic threat of … burkinis!","author":"***Dave","date":"Sat 13-Aug-16 5:55am","format":false,"excerpt":"I can understand the French being a bit sensitive about things that smack of Islam right now, but this strikes me as being a bit silly (as well as counter-productive).'The mayor of Cannes in southern France has banned full-body swimsuits known as \"burkinis\" from the beach, citing public order concerns.\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":128368,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/10\/20\/censorship-is-not-the-way-to-battle-terrorism.html","url_meta":{"origin":33229,"position":3},"title":"Censorship is not the way to battle terrorism","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 20-Oct-15 7:49am","format":false,"excerpt":"But terrorism makes a great excuse for censorship of all sorts.I vote with Jefferson: the best way to combat bad ideas is with good ideas:'Truth will do well enough if left to shift for herself. She seldom has received much aid from the power of great men to whom she\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":130952,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2016\/06\/29\/on-the-naming-of-radicals.html","url_meta":{"origin":33229,"position":4},"title":"On the Naming of Radicals","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 29-Jun-16 12:52pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Lumping together people is sometimes useful, but (especially when intended in a negative way) is more often harmful.For those who insist that \"Radical Islam\" (etc.) is the best way to refer to members of Hezbollah and al-Qa'eda and ISIL and a variety of other groups that (a) operate out of\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":131800,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2016\/10\/15\/on-the-religious-right-and-trump.html","url_meta":{"origin":33229,"position":5},"title":"On the Religious Right and Trump","author":"***Dave","date":"Sat 15-Oct-16 4:22pm","format":false,"excerpt":"I don't agree with most of Ross Douthat's points here -- that older social conservatives were more enthusiastic about Ted Cruz than Donald Trump doesn't make me think better of them; quite the opposite. But it's worth noting that he makes a few good observations. Not all religious conservatives are\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/33229","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=33229"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/33229\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":33243,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/33229\/revisions\/33243"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=33229"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=33229"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=33229"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}