{"id":4493,"date":"2003-08-21T07:36:58","date_gmt":"2003-08-21T14:36:58","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/?p=4493"},"modified":"2003-08-21T07:36:58","modified_gmt":"2003-08-21T14:36:58","slug":"wars_of_words","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2003\/08\/21\/wars_of_words.html","title":{"rendered":"Wars of words"},"content":{"rendered":"

I’m always a tad suspicious of overarching gender observations — not because they can’t be good, solid, well-thought-out considerations, but because they often come along with large axes to be ground.<\/p>\n

This book, though, looks kind of interesting: Women Don’t Ask: Negotiation and the Gender Divide<\/a><\/i>, by Linda Babcock and Sara Lachever. Its conclusion is that while women may be better at negotiating win-win situations in general than more competitive men, they usually avoid negotiations to begin with<\/a>.<\/p>\n

”Everything we know about gender is about when a negotiation is already taking place,” says … Babcock …. ”There’d been nothing asking the question: `Do women negotiate in the first place?’ My research says a resounding `no.”’
\nThe idea for Babcock’s book came a few years back when a group of female grad students came to her office to ask why the men in their program got to teach their own courses while the women had to labor as graders for senior faculty members. The dean explained to Babcock that every student who asked to teach and offered a reasonable proposal was invited to give a course. Simply put, he said, ”More men ask.”
\nBabcock soon discovered that in the public policy master’s program where she taught, men landed average starting salaries that were 7.4 percent, or $4,000, higher than those of women. Surveying newly employed graduates, she found that even though the career services office urged everyone to negotiate their salary, only 7 percent of women did so, as against 57 percent of men. How much more money did the men bargain for? About $4,000.<\/p>\n

The idea seems to be that women, being less confrontational, are more likely not to get into negotiations to begin with. As another reviewer <\/a>put it, “Men see situations as adaptable; women see them as unchangeable. Men use metaphors like ‘winning a ballgame’ to describe negotiations; women use metaphors like ‘going to the dentist.’ Women are ‘more likely than men to think that simply working hard and doing a good job will earn them success and advancement.'”<\/p>\n

Does this play a role in the gender gap in earnings? Perhaps.<\/p>\n

This does tie in, it would seem, to the Mars\/Venus idea of women being less confrontational, in general, and more relationship-building. Going in to dicker over used cars, or a pay hike, isn’t a good place to encourage folks to see things as win-win. <\/p>\n

(Is there room for research here on how many women vs. men go for “fixed price” auto dealerships, like Saturn?)<\/p>\n

That all being said, it’s worth noting that I, personally, loathe negotiations. I’m terrible at it. I’m terrible at negotiating for myself, and I’m terrible at negotiating from the “power” position.<\/p>\n

Hey … maybe that writing test thing <\/a>had something to it, after all.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

I’m always a tad suspicious of overarching gender observations — not because they can’t be good, solid, well-thought-out considerations, but because they often come along with large axes to be…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_seopress_robots_follow":"","_seopress_robots_imageindex":"","_seopress_robots_snippet":"","_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_robots_breadcrumbs":"","_seopress_robots_freeze_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_custom_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_canonical":"","_seopress_social_fb_title":"","_seopress_social_fb_desc":"","_seopress_social_fb_img":"","_seopress_social_fb_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_height":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_title":"","_seopress_social_twitter_desc":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_height":0,"_seopress_redirections_value":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled_regex":"","_seopress_redirections_logged_status":"","_seopress_redirections_param":"","_seopress_redirections_type":0,"_seopress_analysis_target_kw":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[6],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-4493","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-science"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":2792,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2002\/09\/20\/cross_dressing.html","url_meta":{"origin":4493,"position":0},"title":"Cross-dressing","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 20-Sep-02 10:56am","format":false,"excerpt":"This week's RPG WISH: What do you think about cross-gender characters (i.e., men playing female characters and women playing male characters)? What about GMs playing them as NPCs? UPDATE: Doyce,...","rel":"","context":"In "Gaming"","block_context":{"text":"Gaming","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/gaming"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":128502,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/11\/04\/men-women-boys-girls-killing-nurturing-just-like-god-intended.html","url_meta":{"origin":4493,"position":1},"title":"Men! Women! Boys! Girls! Killing! Nurturing! Just like God intended!","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 4-Nov-15 12:39am","format":false,"excerpt":"Sorry, Dennis, a lot of points in your article -- which seems to boil down to \"gender-neutral toys spell the end of civilization\" -- just don't hold water. Or testosterone.1. It would be nice if you actually linked to the NYT article in question, rather than just asserting what it\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":48389,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2014\/11\/17\/gender-in-spaaaaaaace.html","url_meta":{"origin":4493,"position":2},"title":"Gender! In! SPAAAAAAACE!","author":"***Dave","date":"Mon 17-Nov-14 4:33pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Male and female astronauts show different long-term effects living on the space station. Interesting. Originally shared by +NASA: Did you know that men and women adapt differently to spaceflight? Find out how: http:\/\/1.usa.gov\/1qQ20WO \u00a0 View on Google+","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/11\/spaceradiationgenderillustration59459.jpg.jpgimgmax%3D660.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/11\/spaceradiationgenderillustration59459.jpg.jpgimgmax%3D660.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/11\/spaceradiationgenderillustration59459.jpg.jpgimgmax%3D660.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x"},"classes":[]},{"id":133069,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2017\/03\/16\/religion-and-gender-roles-a-documented-contrast.html","url_meta":{"origin":4493,"position":3},"title":"Religion and Gender Roles: a documented contrast","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 16-Mar-17 5:49pm","format":false,"excerpt":"My daughter's flute teacher uses classroom space at a local Baptist (SBC) church. Today there were some daily devotional booklets on the table near where I sit and read while she's in her lesson. I noticed some ... differences between the materials for men and the materials for women. \u00a0\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/2017%2B-%2B1imgmax%3D660.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/2017%2B-%2B1imgmax%3D660.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/2017%2B-%2B1imgmax%3D660.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x"},"classes":[]},{"id":26626,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/02\/22\/technology-and-gender-and-why-thats-more-interesting-than-it-sounds.html","url_meta":{"origin":4493,"position":4},"title":"Technology and Gender (and why that's more interesting than it sounds)","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 22-Feb-12 8:27am","format":false,"excerpt":"Technology and Gender (and why that's more interesting than it sounds)An interesting tale of past and present and what technology we get excited about and what comes along for the ride. 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