{"id":51667,"date":"2015-07-03T18:26:51","date_gmt":"2015-07-04T00:26:51","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/07\/03\/so-what-kind-of-traditional-marriage-does-gay-marriage-undermine.html"},"modified":"2015-07-03T18:26:51","modified_gmt":"2015-07-04T00:26:51","slug":"so-what-kind-of-traditional-marriage-does-gay-marriage-undermine","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/07\/03\/so-what-kind-of-traditional-marriage-does-gay-marriage-undermine.html","title":{"rendered":"So what kind of "traditional marriage" does gay marriage undermine?"},"content":{"rendered":"

An interesting consideration of part of what's behind the "marriage equality threatens traditional marriage" argument.<\/p>\n

'It’s not because straight people won’t want to get married if gays are doing it, too. It’s because it redefines marriage as an institution of love instead of oppression.'<\/i><\/p>\n

I.e., the traditional<\/i> part that is threatened is less the "man and woman" aspect as much as the "man as husband, breadwinning and heading the house, and woman as wife, bearing and rearing children and getting dinner on the table every night" model. It's positing that being Ward and June Cleaver (or some darker version of same) is not the way things ought to, let alone have to, be. If we say, as a society, that marriage between two men or two women is actually marriage,<\/i> then those traditional and binding and biologically "natural" roles for men and women in marriage are not<\/i> inevitable, not<\/i> the norm, not<\/i> what we're teaching the next generation to line up to be.<\/p>\n

Some people think that's not a good thing. Personally, I think it's a positive for couples both gay and<\/i> straight, now and in the future.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

\n
\n
\n<\/a>
\nThe Real Reason Why Conservatives Like Ross Douthat Oppose The Gay Marriage Ruling<\/a><\/span>
\nOf all the sour grapes conservatives chewed this past weekend over the same-sex marriage ruling, perhaps Ross Douthat’s was the sourest. While other conservatives moved on to incoherent babbling about “religious liberty”, Douthat used his New York Times column to dig his heels into the argument soundly rejected by Anthony Kennedy’s opinion in Obergefell v. Hodges: that same-sex marriage is somehow an assault on traditional marriage.\n<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

View on Google+<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

An interesting consideration of part of what's behind the "marriage equality threatens traditional marriage" argument. 'It’s not because straight people won’t want to get married if gays are doing it, too. It’s because it redefines marriage as an institution of love instead of oppression.' I.e., the traditional part that is threatened is less the "man … Continue reading “So what kind of "traditional marriage" does gay marriage undermine?”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_seopress_robots_follow":"","_seopress_robots_imageindex":"","_seopress_robots_snippet":"","_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_robots_breadcrumbs":"","_seopress_robots_freeze_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_custom_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_canonical":"","_seopress_social_fb_title":"","_seopress_social_fb_desc":"","_seopress_social_fb_img":"","_seopress_social_fb_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_height":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_title":"","_seopress_social_twitter_desc":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_height":0,"_seopress_redirections_value":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled_regex":"","_seopress_redirections_logged_status":"","_seopress_redirections_param":"","_seopress_redirections_type":0,"_seopress_analysis_target_kw":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[106],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-51667","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-plusposts"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":27886,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/05\/12\/what-is-traditional-marriage.html","url_meta":{"origin":51667,"position":0},"title":"What is “Traditional Marriage”?","author":"***Dave","date":"Sat 12-May-12 9:50pm","format":false,"excerpt":"From an historic basis -- even as late as the 19th Century and the first half or so of the 20th -- there are very few of them today. Women can marry without permission of their fathers. Divorce is available for grounds other than adultery. Married women can own property,\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":49750,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/03\/02\/rt-lolgop-you-know-whats-a-threat-to-traditional-marriage-massive-drought-forced-migration-and-the-ocean-swallowing-a-few-major-cities-each-decade.html","url_meta":{"origin":51667,"position":1},"title":"RT @LOLGOP You know what’s a threat to traditional marriage? Massive drought, forced migration and the ocean swallowing a few major cities each decade.","author":"***Dave","date":"Mon 2-Mar-15 1:36pm","format":false,"excerpt":"RT @LOLGOP You know what's a threat to traditional marriage? Massive drought, forced migration and the ocean swallowing a few major cities each decade. View on Twitter","rel":"","context":"In "~Tweets"","block_context":{"text":"~Tweets","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/tweets"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":27851,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/05\/09\/wars-on-traditional-marriage.html","url_meta":{"origin":51667,"position":2},"title":"Wars on Traditional Marriage","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 9-May-12 11:34pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Oh, Rush ... you're such a zany.Reshared post from +Zachary Cooklolz Google+: View post on Google+","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":51630,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/06\/27\/in-praise-of-worldwide-traditional-marriage.html","url_meta":{"origin":51667,"position":3},"title":"In praise of worldwide traditional marriage","author":"***Dave","date":"Sat 27-Jun-15 10:54am","format":false,"excerpt":"Conservatives often decry call-outs to legal systems and customs from outside the US in American judicial proceedings. That didn't stop John Roberts from mentioning how traditional marriage has been understood across many global cultures. Though he may not have chosen the best examples to cite... Justice Roberts cited the traditions\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":13446,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2008\/12\/11\/traditional_marriage.html","url_meta":{"origin":51667,"position":4},"title":"Traditional marriage","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 11-Dec-08 4:23pm","format":false,"excerpt":"From Newsweek's article this week on gay marriage: Let's try for a minute to take the religious conservatives at their word and define marriage as the Bible does. Shall we...","rel":"","context":"In "LGBTQ &c"","block_context":{"text":"LGBTQ &c","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/gay-stuff"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":25576,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/01\/19\/hes-a-newt-but-he-acts-like-a-lounge-lizard.html","url_meta":{"origin":51667,"position":5},"title":"He's a Newt, but he acts like a Lounge Lizard","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 19-Jan-12 9:15am","format":false,"excerpt":"Okay, is it any shock to anyone that Newt sought an \"open marriage\" with his second wife, looking for her permission to sleep with the woman who became his third wife later on after his second one refused permission?Yeah, not to me, either. Nor do I think this will hurt\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"http:\/\/images0-focus-opensocial.googleusercontent.com\/gadgets\/proxy?container=focus&gadget=a&resize_h=100&url=http%3A%2F%2Fthinkprogress.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F01%2Fnewt1-300x199.jpg","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/51667","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=51667"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/51667\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=51667"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=51667"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=51667"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}