{"id":51833,"date":"2015-07-24T14:23:53","date_gmt":"2015-07-24T20:23:53","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/07\/24\/a-georgia-preacher-in-secular-scandinavia.html"},"modified":"2015-07-25T09:45:35","modified_gmt":"2015-07-25T15:45:35","slug":"a-georgia-preacher-in-secular-scandinavia","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/07\/24\/a-georgia-preacher-in-secular-scandinavia.html","title":{"rendered":"A Georgia Preacher in Secular Scandinavia"},"content":{"rendered":"

The video is worth watching, if only to see the huge cognitive divide here ("Wow!"), but +<\/span>George Wiman<\/a><\/span>'s specific comments are just as important: folk who look toward a greater mingling of church and state in our own nation always seem to do so with the assumption that the church<\/i> side will be the dominant partner. In historical reality, that's very rarely ever been the case. And even when it has, it's been a particular<\/i> church, which meant that anyone on the outside of that specific denomination was literally on the outs with the government.<\/p>\n

So all the debates and disputes and discussions we have around religion and morality and "culture wars" today that get heated but largely rhetorical? Now imagine one particular group in that debate having the power of the police and the legislature in its pocket. We've had that, de facto,<\/i> at various times in our history (ask the Mormons), but the tyranny of the majority is always weaker than the tyranny of the once-established majority.<\/p>\n

Better yet, take a look at the English history that drove the writers of the Constitution to put in the First Amendment banning established churches.<\/p>\n

But, then again, the folk who so blithely assume that the church will control the state also seem to blithely assume that it will be their<\/i> particular church that is calling the shots.<\/p>\n

Originally shared by +George Wiman<\/a>:<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

This poor guy was especially freaked out that in Denmark, the government requires the church to perform same-sex weddings. "Wow," he says. That's exactly what the gay-haters are afraid of in this country! But Denmark has something the US does not have: a state church. The Evangelical Lutheran Church there is state property. Churches in the US needn't worry about such interference, precisely because we have separation of church and state – the thing our evangelicals are keen to get rid of.
They ought to be thankful for that wall of separation that we have in this country. When a secularist campaigns to remove religion from government, they're securing religious freedom – even for this guy. When religion gets into government, government gets into religion.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

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\n<\/a>
\nAmerican Bible-Thumper Travels To Scandinavia, Freaks Out After Discovering How Secular They Are (VIDEO)<\/a><\/span>
\nA Georgia-based fundamentalist pastor had his mind blown when he took a recent trip to Scandinavia and discovered, to his horror, that nobody hated gay people or believed God created the Earth in a…\n<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

View on Google+<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

The video is worth watching, if only to see the huge cognitive divide here ("Wow!"), but +George Wiman's specific comments are just as important: folk who look toward a greater mingling of church and state in our own nation always seem to do so with the assumption that the church side will be the dominant … Continue reading “A Georgia Preacher in Secular Scandinavia”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[106,109,10,718],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-51833","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-plusposts","category-church-state","category-geopolitical-brouhaha","category-marriage-equality"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":132739,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2017\/02\/02\/coming-soon-to-a-pulpit-near-you.html","url_meta":{"origin":51833,"position":0},"title":"Coming Soon to a Pulpit Near You","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 2-Feb-17 6:00pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Trump's vow to \"destroy\" the Johnson Amendment -- which prevents churches from preaching about specific candidates or else potentially lose their tax-exempt status ...... is actually probably a good thing.Which sounds like a weird thing for me to say, since I find church-state entanglement to be almost always to the\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":7642,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2005\/01\/23\/apologies_2.html","url_meta":{"origin":51833,"position":1},"title":"Apologies","author":"***Dave","date":"Sun 23-Jan-05 8:43pm","format":false,"excerpt":"After meeting for the week, the Episcopal Church bishops have apologized to the Anglican Communion for being so hasty about gay clergy etc. In this spirit of intentional practice, we...","rel":"","context":"In "Religion"","block_context":{"text":"Religion","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/religion"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":24151,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2011\/12\/02\/church-bands-interracial-couples.html","url_meta":{"origin":51833,"position":2},"title":"Church bans interracial couples","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 2-Dec-11 12:03pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Obviously I disagree with this particular church's beliefs -- but I support their decision, as a private belief group, to define their own membership rules.The only reason I point this out is that the question all too often comes up about whether the growth of anti-discrimination laws against gays and\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":136504,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2018\/05\/20\/the-power-and-fire-of-love.html","url_meta":{"origin":51833,"position":3},"title":"The Power and Fire of Love","author":"***Dave","date":"Sun 20-May-18 11:26pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Michael Curry is the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church of the United States, my particular denomination. He was invited to give the sermon at the royal wedding of Prince Harry of England and Meghan Markle at Windsor Castle yesterday. It's ... pretty cool. View on Google+","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/michael-curry-royal-wedding-bishop.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/michael-curry-royal-wedding-bishop.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/michael-curry-royal-wedding-bishop.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/michael-curry-royal-wedding-bishop.jpg?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/michael-curry-royal-wedding-bishop.jpg?resize=1050%2C600&ssl=1 3x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/michael-curry-royal-wedding-bishop.jpg?resize=1400%2C800&ssl=1 4x"},"classes":[]},{"id":129503,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2016\/01\/15\/more-on-the-anglican-communion-episcopal-church-kerfuffle.html","url_meta":{"origin":51833,"position":4},"title":"More on the Anglican Communion \/ Episcopal Church kerfuffle","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 15-Jan-16 7:41pm","format":false,"excerpt":"So, for any of those who take this seriously, here's an update on the Grave Communique issued by the Primates at the Anglican Communion Primates Meeting in England yesterday, in which they (more in sorrow than in anger, though, really, kind of peeved) said the Episcopal Church wasn't working and\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/01\/ens_011516_primates5B15D.jpgimgmax%3D660.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/01\/ens_011516_primates5B15D.jpgimgmax%3D660.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/01\/ens_011516_primates5B15D.jpgimgmax%3D660.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x"},"classes":[]},{"id":24361,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2011\/12\/08\/kentucky-church-ends-interracial-couple-ban.html","url_meta":{"origin":51833,"position":5},"title":"Kentucky Church ends interracial couple ban","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 8-Dec-11 2:54pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Bully for them, whatever the reasons were why it passed initially.That said, this bothered me: \"Stacy Stepp, pastor of the Gulnare Free Will Baptist Church in Pike County, told The Associated Press that the vote by nine people last week was declared null and void after it was determined that\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/51833","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=51833"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/51833\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":51881,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/51833\/revisions\/51881"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=51833"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=51833"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=51833"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}