{"id":5233,"date":"2004-04-22T14:24:28","date_gmt":"2004-04-22T21:24:28","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/2004\/04\/22\/twixt-and-tween.html"},"modified":"2004-04-22T14:24:28","modified_gmt":"2004-04-22T21:24:28","slug":"twixt_and_tween","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2004\/04\/22\/twixt_and_tween.html","title":{"rendered":"Twixt and tween"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Okay, try this &#8230;<\/p>\n<p class=\"indent\"><i>I am going to force you to do something &#8212; something you consider immoral, abetting behavior you consider immoral, something that violates your conscience, your religion, your holy vows.  I am going to force you to do it.  If you don&#8217;t, I&#8217;m going to ruin your livelihood, your business, and I&#8217;m going to sue you for every last penny you own.  You have no choice.  No choice at all.<\/i><\/p>\n<p>And, on the other hand &#8230;<\/p>\n<p class=\"indent\"><i>I don&#8217;t like you.  I don&#8217;t approve of you, or of what you do, or why you do it.  So you know what?  To hell with you.  I&#8217;m not going to help you.  I don&#8217;t care if it makes you suffer.  I don&#8217;t care if it hurts you.  I don&#8217;t care if it&#8217;s my job to help you.  I just don&#8217;t care for trash like you and your kind.  Get out of here.<\/i><\/p>\n<p>Michigan&#8217;s legislature is in the process of passing the &#8220;Conscientious Objector Policy Act&#8221; and related legislation.  It shields health-care workers and insurance companies from <a href=\"http:\/\/www.firstamendmentcenter.org\/news.aspx?id=3839\">firing <\/a>or law suits if they refuse to perform a medical procedure, fill a prescription or cover treatment for something they object to for moral, ethical or religious reasons.<\/p>\n<p>In most of the debate on the matter, the focus is on abortions and emergency (morning-after) contraceptive services.  But as <a href=\"http:\/\/www.365gay.com\/newscon04\/04\/042204MichMed.htm\">this article <\/a> notes, it could also give someone an out to turn away someone from (non-emergency) medical care just because they&#8217;re, say, gay.  While there is evidently a provision in the bill to prevent discrmination based on race, deciding that homosexuals are abominations before the Lord, and therefore can be refused treatment or insurance coverage would evidently be perfectly legal.<\/p>\n<p>Yeesh.<\/p>\n<p>And yet, by the same token, should a Catholic pharmacist who believes that abortion is a sin be compelled to sell someone morning-after contraception?  I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;m willing to say yes &#8212; but I&#8217;m also not sure I&#8217;m willing to have someone be unable to get such a (legal) prescription because of it.<\/p>\n<p>(Oddly enough, ordinary contraception is excepted by the bill, which seems to fly in the face of its basic principles.)<\/p>\n<p>In other words, the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.firstamendmentcenter.org\/news.aspx?id=13224\">ostensible principles <\/a>(never mind for a moment anything about ulterior motives) behind the bills seem sound, but their application is troubling.<\/p>\n<p class=\"block\">Republican state Rep. Randy Richardville of Monroe, who introduced the main bill of the package, said the legislation is intended to protect religious, moral and ethical freedoms of health-care providers.  &#8220;Nothing in this bill, not a thing, denies a patient from receiving medical care,&#8221; he said. &#8220;This simply means a medical professional cannot violate their religious obligations.&#8221;<br \/>\nPaul A. Long, vice president for public policy for the Michigan Catholic Conference, said the bills promoted the constitutional right to religious freedom.<br \/>\n&#8220;Individual and institutional health-care providers can and should maintain their mission and their services without compromising faith-based teaching,&#8221; he said in a written statement.<\/p>\n<p>But the odd set of exceptions &#8212; the two noted above, race (can&#8217;t folks be bigotted for religious reasons?) and birth control (which, last I checked, was also against Catholic doctrine) &#8212; make this a bit less than a pure First Amendment defense.  And the breadth of what discrimination could be allowed, and the pain and suffering that could stem from that (even if emergency services cannot be denied), seems a dangerous path to take.<\/p>\n<p>And that doesn&#8217;t even get into what constitutes a &#8220;legitimate&#8221; religious objection, something I&#8217;m as loath to let the courts decide as I&#8217;m sure they are &#8212; but which I&#8217;ll be damned (so to speak) if I&#8217;m to let someone claim it as a rationale for whatever they do or don&#8217;t want to do.<\/p>\n<p>If the specific, openly-debated matters of conscience were themselves the only target of the bill, I might see it as a reasonable compromise between religious convictions (even ones I don&#8217;t share) and the public good.  I wouldn&#8217;t be happy about it, but unhappiness is usually part of compromise.  But by turning it around and making it about everything except a few sacred cows, it seems to open the door far too wide to let individual &#8212; and institutional &#8212; discrimination prevail.<\/p>\n<p><small>(via <a href=\"http:\/\/www.gamersnook.com\/blog\/archives\/002305.html#002305\">Scott<\/a>)<\/small><\/p>\n<p>UPDATE:  Subject <a href=\"https:\/\/www.hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2004\/11\/10\/moral_choice.html\">revisited<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Okay, try this &#8230; I am going to force you to do something &#8212; something you consider immoral, abetting behavior you consider immoral, something that violates your conscience, your religion,&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_seopress_analysis_target_kw":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[7,25,9,27,8],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-5233","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-health","category-gay-stuff","category-politics-law","category-religion","category-zt-pc"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":33347,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2013\/04\/26\/gay-people-are-less-immoral-than-we-thought.html","url_meta":{"origin":5233,"position":0},"title":"Gay people are less immoral than we thought!","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 26-Apr-13 10:10am","format":false,"excerpt":"Usually Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association is comparing gay people to pedophiles, Nazis, or\u00a0whatever other Great and Terrible Evil he wants to tar them with the same brush as. \u00a0So being downgraded to merely being as bad (or discrimination-worthy) as shoplifters is actually kind of tame\u00a0for him.Fischer's point\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;~PlusPosts&quot;","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":133110,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2017\/03\/20\/think-of-the-children-literally-think-of-the-children-health-care-edition.html","url_meta":{"origin":5233,"position":1},"title":"Think of the Children. Literally, Think of the Children. (Health Care Edition)","author":"***Dave","date":"Mon 20-Mar-17 2:47pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Because of Medicaid expansion under the Affordable Care Act, uninsurance rates among children have dropped dramatically. That's expected to directly reverse under the AHCA \/ TrumpCare \/ RyanCare \/ GOPcare, as Medicaid gets ratcheted back. We know (since we've been looking at it since 1965, when the program was created)\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;~PlusPosts&quot;","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":131373,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2016\/08\/27\/judging-neglectful-parents.html","url_meta":{"origin":5233,"position":2},"title":"Judging &quot;Neglectful&quot; Parents","author":"***Dave","date":"Sat 27-Aug-16 3:46pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Some interesting research described here that concludes that a lot of increased societal concern over kids being left alone isn't driven by actual risk, but by increased moral judgment on parental behavior. The more that parental behavior is seen as neglectful, the greater the danger the children being seen as\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;~PlusPosts&quot;","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":48662,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2014\/12\/05\/and-theyll-know-we-are-christians-by-our-love-2.html","url_meta":{"origin":5233,"position":3},"title":"And they&#039;ll know we are Christians by our love","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 5-Dec-14 10:35am","format":false,"excerpt":"At some point this week I read a Christian pastor defending the rejection of a mosque by a town council because, well, Muslims kill people. I guess this particular video indicates that maybe we should start rejecting applications for new Christian churches, too.And I read about another Christian pastor, an\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;~PlusPosts&quot;","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":134874,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2017\/10\/01\/arguing-rights-two-parts-semantics-one-part-cruelty.html","url_meta":{"origin":5233,"position":4},"title":"Arguing about rights is two parts semantics, one part cruelty","author":"***Dave","date":"Sun 1-Oct-17 11:15pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Is health care a \"right\"? Well, US Senator Ron Johnson (R-WI) clearly doesn't think so. Like food and shelter, he considers them \"privileges.\" Do you consider food a right? Do you consider clothing a right? Do you consider shelter a right? What we have as rights are life, liberty, and\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;~PlusPosts&quot;","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/10\/unnamed.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":128121,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/09\/21\/all-the-market-can-bear-and-then-some.html","url_meta":{"origin":5233,"position":5},"title":"All the market can bear (and then some)","author":"***Dave","date":"Mon 21-Sep-15 1:06pm","format":false,"excerpt":"When you have a relatively free market for drugs, this kind of thing is inevitable: companies buying ownership of drugs that have been long on the market and dropped to a cheap generic price, and turning around and wildly jacking up that price to make some quick bucks from the\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;~PlusPosts&quot;","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5233","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=5233"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5233\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=5233"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=5233"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=5233"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}