{"id":5479,"date":"2004-03-04T10:12:39","date_gmt":"2004-03-04T17:12:39","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/2004\/03\/04\/if-it-walks-down-the-aisle-like-a-duck.html"},"modified":"2014-11-05T15:22:47","modified_gmt":"2014-11-05T22:22:47","slug":"if_it_walks_dow","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2004\/03\/04\/if_it_walks_dow.html","title":{"rendered":"If it walks down the aisle like a duck …"},"content":{"rendered":"

John Kerry has (maybe) backed making state gay civil unions functionally equivalent to marriage as far as federal rights and benefits<\/a> are concerned.<\/p>\n

“It’s the first time in history that a presidential candidate has ever supported full and equal protection for same-sex couples,” said state Rep. Mark Leno, a San Francisco Democrat and an early Kerry supporter who attended Friday’s fundraiser and queried Kerry about his position. “He told me that he would grant all 1,049 federal rights to same-sex couples in whatever legal union their states recognize,” said Leno, who has sponsored a bill that would legalize gay marriage in California.<\/p>\n

Or maybe not.<\/p>\n

Kerry spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter did not dispute Leno’s characterization of the meeting, but said Kerry was responding to very specific yes or no questions put to him. She portrayed his answer as in keeping with his general support for “providing federal benefits for state-recognized same-sex couples. . . . He has not reviewed the over thousand benefits but stands by his commitment to equality.”<\/p>\n

The devil, of course, is always in the details.<\/p>\n

But, again, that raises the question of, if you’re going to consider it precisely the same, why use a different word for it?<\/i><\/p>\n

(One might also ask if the various federal obligations and responsibilities associated with marriage will also be imposed on gay civil unions. One would, if the bennies are to be there, hope so. After all, that’s part of marriage, too.)<\/p>\n

Kerry’s walking a serious tight rope here, trying to appeal to those who support gay rights (including marriage), while not alienating folks who are not as comfortable with the idea (or who actively oppose it). He’s previously said he’s against gay marriage, but has voiced opposition to a Federal constitutional amendment. He supports a Massachusetts state <\/i>constitutional amendment banning it, though, but only as long as it allows for civil unions. As a result, nobody is terribly happy with him on the subject.<\/p>\n

Plus, of course, it’s not as simple a position as Kerry paints it, not just a matter of executive order.<\/p>\n

Kerry might have a hard time upholding his promise. Granting federal rights to same-sex couples contradicts a major provision of the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act, said Tobias Wolff, a professor at the Stanford University School of Law and an expert on gay legal issues.
\nThe provisions state that federal benefits for married people may not apply to same-sex couples, and that judgments stemming from a same-sex union are not portable from state to state. While marriage and civil unions are not considered a “judgment” in legal terms, divorce, child support and probate are judgments. That means, Wolff said, that a legal mess could ensue if a partner who is dissatisfied with the litigated decision regarding, say, divorce, in one state, decided to litigate in another state.<\/p>\n

Stay tuned …<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

John Kerry has (maybe) backed making state gay civil unions functionally equivalent to marriage as far as federal rights and benefits are concerned. “It’s the first time in history that…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_seopress_robots_follow":"","_seopress_robots_imageindex":"","_seopress_robots_snippet":"","_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_robots_breadcrumbs":"","_seopress_robots_freeze_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_custom_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_canonical":"","_seopress_social_fb_title":"","_seopress_social_fb_desc":"","_seopress_social_fb_img":"","_seopress_social_fb_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_height":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_title":"","_seopress_social_twitter_desc":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_height":0,"_seopress_redirections_value":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled_regex":"","_seopress_redirections_logged_status":"","_seopress_redirections_param":"","_seopress_redirections_type":0,"_seopress_analysis_target_kw":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[52,25,718],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-5479","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-elections-2004","category-gay-stuff","category-marriage-equality"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":5521,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2004\/02\/26\/splitting_hairs.html","url_meta":{"origin":5479,"position":0},"title":"Splitting hairs","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 26-Feb-04 6:09pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Let's see. George W. Bush backs an amendment to the Federal constitution that would ban recognition of gay marriage on a federal level, but would allow states to define other...","rel":"","context":"In "Elections 2004"","block_context":{"text":"Elections 2004","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/politics-law\/elections-2004"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":5371,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2004\/03\/30\/the_catholic_ca.html","url_meta":{"origin":5479,"position":1},"title":"The Catholic Card","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 30-Mar-04 6:09am","format":false,"excerpt":"Some folks (mostly conservative) are crowing over potential conflicts between John Kerry (a Catholic) and the Church, based on his positions on various subjects. The last time a major political...","rel":"","context":"In "Elections 2004"","block_context":{"text":"Elections 2004","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/politics-law\/elections-2004"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":5444,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2004\/03\/10\/a_good_harvest.html","url_meta":{"origin":5479,"position":2},"title":"A good harvest","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 10-Mar-04 10:56am","format":false,"excerpt":"You would think the American Family Association would learn after their abortive (so to speak) gay marriage poll that (a) online polls are worthless, regardless of whether (b) people set...","rel":"","context":"In "Marriage Equality"","block_context":{"text":"Marriage Equality","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/politics-law\/marriage-equality"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":39251,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2013\/10\/20\/new-jersey-supreme-court-on-gay-marriage.html","url_meta":{"origin":5479,"position":3},"title":"New Jersey Supreme Court on gay marriage","author":"***Dave","date":"Sun 20-Oct-13 1:44pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Here are some excerpts from the ruling.What's interesting is something of a cascade effect. The court did not find the state had identified any harm from gay marriage, but it did find harm done to the state's plaintiffs -- including a variety of state benefits, but, more notably, denial of\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":18059,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2010\/08\/04\/a-little-rationality-creeps-into-california.html","url_meta":{"origin":5479,"position":4},"title":"A little rationality creeps into California","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 4-Aug-10 5:15pm","format":false,"excerpt":"As you can tell by the high-pitched screams from certain quarters, Federal Judge Vaughn Walker has overturned California's Proposition 8 (decision here).\u00a0 The nitty-gritty: Proposition 8 fails to advance any rational basis in singling out gay men and lesbians for denial of a marriage license. Indeed, the evidence shows Proposition\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "LGBTQ &c"","block_context":{"text":"LGBTQ &c","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/gay-stuff"},"img":{"alt_text":"Themis, Blind Justice","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/08\/blind-justice-themis-219x300.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":46066,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2014\/10\/24\/marriage-is-not-property.html","url_meta":{"origin":5479,"position":5},"title":"Marriage is not property","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 24-Oct-14 11:01pm","format":false,"excerpt":"And we're not talking here about one spouse considering the other as property, but the argument that certain (straight) people own the concept of marriage, and have materially invested in it by getting married, and therefore anyone else who wants to play in the sandbox is not only trespassing but\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5479","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=5479"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5479\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":46739,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5479\/revisions\/46739"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=5479"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=5479"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=5479"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}