{"id":6813,"date":"2004-12-27T17:12:58","date_gmt":"2004-12-28T00:12:58","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/2004\/12\/27\/comcast-dvr-and-tivo.html"},"modified":"2004-12-27T17:12:58","modified_gmt":"2004-12-28T00:12:58","slug":"comcast_dvr_and","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2004\/12\/27\/comcast_dvr_and.html","title":{"rendered":"Comcast DVR and TiVo"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>So today, aside from the usual work stuff and building a few web pages and considering what I needed to get done this week, I started doing a lot of reading and browsing about TiVo vs Comcast DVR, which former I got <a href=\"https:\/\/www.hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2004\/12\/25\/are_we_not_ging.html\" target=\"_blank\">Official Permission to Pursue<\/a> for Christmas, and which latter I got <a href=\"https:\/\/www.hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2004\/12\/09\/things_that_mak.html\" target=\"_blank\">a letter in the mail<\/a> just before we left saying it was <a href=\"http:\/\/www.rockymountainnews.com\/drmn\/business\/article\/0,1299,DRMN_4_3388341,00.html\" target=\"_blank\">now available<\/a> (and here I&#8217;d not even known it was coming).<\/p>\n<p>Part of the difficulty in this whole quest is that, despite DVRs (Digital Video Recorders, aka PVRs or Personal Video Recorders) being some years old (see TiVo), it is still a relatively immature technology.  TiVo remains the Macintosh-like leader in both interface and fanboyishness, but other products are picking up the slack (and digging into what passes for TiVo&#8217;s business model).<\/p>\n<p>So looking first at Comcast &#8230;<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Comcast has a <a href=\"http:\/\/www.comcast.com\/UserIncludes\/dvr\/index.html\" target=\"_blank\">demo page<\/a> for its service.\n<li>This <a href=\"http:\/\/www.pvrcompare.com\/featurechart.html\" target=\"_blank\">comparison<\/a> is, evidently, outdated (based on the equipment Comcast was using in 10\/2003).\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.pvrblog.com\/pvr\/2003\/12\/comcast_set_to_.html\" target=\"_blank\">This article (12\/2003)<\/a> details more about the <a href=\"http:\/\/broadband.motorola.com\/dvr\/\" target=\"_blank\">newer Motorola boxes<\/a> that Comcast is using, and has <a href=\"http:\/\/www.pvrblog.com\/pvr\/2003\/12\/comcast_set_to_.html#c2874257\" target=\"_blank\">extensive<\/a> <a href=\"http:\/\/www.pvrblog.com\/pvr\/2003\/12\/comcast_set_to_.html#c2327954\" target=\"_blank\">comments<\/a> about the two systems in comparison.  I&#8217;ve also downloaded the Motorola users guides and will peruse them.\n<li>There&#8217;s also an article on the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.tivocommunity.com\/tivo-vb\/showthread.php?&#038;threadid=210485\" target=\"_blank\">Comcast DVR vs TiVo<\/a> at the TiVo forums.\n<li>And here&#8217;s an <a href=\"http:\/\/www.pvrblog.com\/pvr\/2004\/12\/motorolas_serio.html\">up-to-date review<\/a> of the most recent hardware being used by Comcast, the <a href=\"http:\/\/broadband.motorola.com\/dvr\/dct6412.asp\" target=\"_blank\">Motorola 6412<\/a>, which refers quite a bit back to this review by an avowed <a href=\"http:\/\/www.lancearthur.com\/archives\/000914.html\" target=\"_blank\">hi-tech early-adopter<\/a>.<\/ul>\n<p>But let&#8217;s start with the business engagement part of things.  Or, as Mr Morden used to say, &#8220;What do you want?&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>(Hmmmm.  Maybe not the most auspicious choice of questioners I could have made.)<\/p>\n<p>I <em>am<\/em> looking for something that:<\/p>\n<ol type=A>\n<li>Lets me easily record and time-shift shows for later use.  That&#8217;s both for my own peculiar habits, Margie&#8217;s shows, and stuff for Kitten.\n<li>Is easy to use and maintain.  I have no desire to micromanage my TV environment the way I do my PC environment, especially since it&#8217;s shared.\n<li>Provides me with the information I need about what&#8217;s coming up, lets me flag shows for recording in advance, even if time slots change, etc.\n<li>Lets me record one show while watching another.<\/ol>\n<p>I am <em>not <\/em>looking for something that:<\/p>\n<ol type=a>\n<li>Can record or play back HDTV.  Don&#8217;t have it. Not wildly interested (this year).  Not a factor.  Unfortunately, all the reviews seem to assume that the only reason one would be a videophile is to have HDTV.  This made some of the comparisons difficult to sift through.\n<li>Can record shows to DVD.  Well, I might, I suppose, under some circumstances, though I remain leery of the multiplicity of DVD recording standards.  It would be a nice-to feature, but nothing critical or worth paying much more money for.  Yet.\n<li>Can hook up to my PC, my VCR, the microwave oven, and my blog, and that will let me share shows across the Internet by hacking into this port or that port or perhaps running this Linux program I downloaded from over here &#8230;  If I wanted that, I could follow the numerous directions on how to roll my own PVR for &#8220;free.&#8221;<\/ol>\n<p>Reading through the above, and taking notes, I find the following:<\/p>\n<p><strong>Comcast\/Motorola DVR advantages<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Significantly cheaper:  no cost for the box ($100 deposit, though?), a possible service call charge ($30?), $10\/mo.  No ownership\/upgrade costs (but stuck in Comcast&#8217;s upgrade path).  TiVo has the initial cost of the box ($100 with rebates for the basic 40Gb box, and on up from there), plus $13\/month for the listings guide (or $300 &#8220;lifetime&#8221;).  Those prices vary whether you&#8217;re talking about TiVo per se, or DirecTV with TiVo, or HDDirectTV with TiVo, or other such permutations.\n<li>Integrates the cable box with the DVR, meaning it minimizes space in the cabinet.  This is a significant concern for us.\n<li>Integrates the cable box with the DVR, meaning it minimizes inconvenience of viewing digital cable shows.  For digital cable, the TiVo evidently requires using a little IR hookup to the cable box to change channels semi-automatically.  What a pain.\n<li>Integrates the cable box with the DVR, meaning one interface to (continue) to use.  Though the old Comcast interface as sucked, the newer one* looks to be faster and slicker.\n<li>If the damned thing breaks, the cable company will (eventually, with much angst and scheduling of appointments) fix it\/replace it.  If my TiVo breaks, I have to take it in for repairs, or ship it somewhere myself, etc.\n<li>The current* Comcast DVRs appear to be dual-tuners, which means you can be watching one thing on digital cable while recording another.  This sounds like it&#8217;s not possible (or is an expensive add-on) with TiVo.\n<li>Comcast is more likely to be around in five years than TiVo.  No, really, there are a lot of concerns over <a href=\"http:\/\/www.broadcastingcable.com\/article\/CA485539.html?display=On+the+Street&#038;referral=supp\" target=\"_blank\">TiVo&#8217;s lifespan as a company<\/a>, especially if DirecTV comes up with its own DVR.  Of course, there always have been for years, just as there were with Apple.  Still &#8230;<\/ul>\n<p><strong>TiVo advantages<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.pvrblog.com\/pvr\/2003\/12\/comcast_set_to_.html#c2908463\" target=\"_blank\">Doesn&#8217;t involve<\/a> <a href=\"http:\/\/www.pvrblog.com\/pvr\/2003\/12\/comcast_set_to_.html#c3052141\" target=\"_blank\">the cable company<\/a>.  TiVo fans seem truly fanatic about the product (to the extent of reminding me of Mac fans &#8212; and, possibly, with some of the same myopias), and nobody likes dealing with the cable company (in general) or <a href=\"http:\/\/www.epinions.com\/elec-Video-Cable_TV_Providers-All-Comcast\" target=\"_blank\">Comcast (in particular)<\/a>, though Comcast has been doing some <a href=\"http:\/\/www.rockymountainnews.com\/drmn\/technology\/article\/0,1299,DRMN_49_3411426,00.html\" target=\"_blank\">heavy investment<\/a> into functionality and infrastructure.\n<li>Superior interface.  They&#8217;ve been doing this for some time.  Even if the Comcast iGuide (with the new models*) is better than it was, the TiVo appears to be easier to use, and have a better remote.\n<li>Higher-end capacities, and more resolution options available to maximize storage.  Comcast&#8217;s DVR* is a single (high) resolution, and is 80Gb\/30ish hours capacity, period.  There seem to be ways to get additional storage hooked\/hacked into TiVo, but not with Comcast; and the Comcast 30h estimate seems to be very rough and optimistic (esp. if you record analog stuff).  There are rumors of eventual upgrades to the Comcast unit, or the ability to hook in external storage, but those remain rumors.\n<li>Season Pass. This means I can say, &#8220;record this show, whenever it&#8217;s on.&#8221;  The Comcast DVR doesn&#8217;t seem to do that, or do it well, or do it consistently.  But it may do it in a mediocre fashion (not recognizing re-runs). It&#8217;s difficult to tell.  This is a key feature, though, I&#8217;d hate to do without. \n<li>Recommendations, where TiVo figures out what you might want to watch based on your viewing habits and your ranking things thumbs-up\/down.  I&#8217;m not wowed about this, especially in a multi-viewer household.\n<li>FF 30 seconds feature, to skip commercials.  There may be a way to hack the Comcast remote to do this, but it seems spotty.\n<li>May not introduce the bad digital video of analog (unencrypted) stations that folks report with the Comcast DVR.  Comcast is broadcasting more via digital, so that may not be as much of an issue in the future, but the current reports about it are pretty bad (and, no, I do not want to have to put in a splitter).<\/ul>\n<p><small>*There seem to be questions whether the Motorola tuner being distributed in Denver at the moment is the latest-greatest Motorola 6412 dual-tuner (watch and record different channels) or single tuner box.  That would definitely factor in.  Of course, reading various reviews, it sounds like it&#8217;s nearly impossible to get a straight (or, if straight, accurate) answer from Comcast as to whether you&#8217;re going to get the single- or dual-tuner boxes. There is also the variation of different controlling software, from Microsoft vs Gemstar, but the former seems only available in Seattle.<\/small><\/p>\n<p>The old problem of TiVos requiring a dial-up line has been resolved; current TiVos will download show info via broadband connection (either direct off the cable, or, presumably, off the hub that&#8217;s already by all those components).  Of course, this isn&#8217;t a problem with the Comcast unit.<\/p>\n<p>And, of course, there&#8217;s the question of whether I should bag Comcast cable altogether and get a DirectTV\/TiVo satellite hookup (I&#8217;d rather not get into that big a change, for a variety of reasons), or even look at ReplayTV (though I suspect that will entail some of the same issues as TiVo).  Or whether, for the trivial cost, I should just get the Comcast unit and see how it goes.<\/p>\n<p>*sigh*<\/p>\n<p>I was really hoping this would be relatively simple.  I ought to have known better.<\/p>\n<p>Regardless, it sounds like I&#8217;ll need to completely redo the wiring of my various components to get everything working.  Which will be a big enough cost when as it is.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>So today, aside from the usual work stuff and building a few web pages and considering what I needed to get done this week, I started doing a lot of&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[20],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-6813","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-hi-tech"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":7393,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2005\/03\/16\/im_gonna_get_my.html","url_meta":{"origin":6813,"position":0},"title":"I&#8217;m gonna get my TiVo?","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 16-Mar-05 9:18am","format":false,"excerpt":"Comcast and TiVo have inked a deal for the latter to provide software for the former's Motorola DVR platform. Which is what we have. W00t! According to TiVo's press release:...","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Hi-Tech&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Hi-Tech","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/hi-tech"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":12462,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2008\/04\/25\/most_popular_pages.html","url_meta":{"origin":6813,"position":1},"title":"Most popular pages","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 25-Apr-08 1:30pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Doing some quick review via Google Analytics. The most popular pages (aside from indexes), hereabouts, based on pageviews: ***Dave :: Comcast DVR and TiVo ***Dave :: The Rules of Jaywalking...","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Blogging &amp; Internet&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Blogging &amp; Internet","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":9760,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2006\/11\/06\/oh_come_now_its_not_that.html","url_meta":{"origin":6813,"position":2},"title":"Oh, come now, it&#8217;s not that bad &#8230;","author":"***Dave","date":"Mon 6-Nov-06 3:24pm","format":false,"excerpt":"I do enjoy a good rant, so let me give you a choice excerpt from John Battelle, Internet Search Guru, on the Comcast HD DVR: Good Lord, it doth suck....","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Hi-Tech&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Hi-Tech","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/hi-tech"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":7689,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2005\/01\/17\/feeling_just_a.html","url_meta":{"origin":6813,"position":3},"title":"Feeling just a bit off","author":"***Dave","date":"Mon 17-Jan-05 7:34pm","format":false,"excerpt":"I'd noticed this in the past, sort of casually, but have now a lot more aware of it now that I have a DVR: networks screwing around with show start-stop...","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Hi-Tech&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Hi-Tech","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/hi-tech"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":7698,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2005\/01\/17\/i_almost_got_my.html","url_meta":{"origin":6813,"position":4},"title":"I almost got my TiVo","author":"***Dave","date":"Mon 17-Jan-05 10:29am","format":false,"excerpt":"Fascinating story here about TiVo's struggles -- and about a deal that might have changed the technical landscape in my house: After months of hard bargaining, TiVo reached an agreement...","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Hi-Tech&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Hi-Tech","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/hi-tech"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":10000,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2006\/09\/27\/memo_to_doctor_who_record.html","url_meta":{"origin":6813,"position":5},"title":"Memo to Doctor Who recorders &#8230;","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 27-Sep-06 11:08pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Decided to double-check what the DVR was going to do Friday evening for the Series 2 premiere of Doctor Who on Sci Fi. Glad I did, because (a) it...","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Doctor Who&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Doctor Who","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/media\/franchises\/media-tv-doctor-who"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/images\/tardis.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6813","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=6813"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6813\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=6813"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=6813"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=6813"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}