{"id":7489,"date":"2005-02-22T13:00:33","date_gmt":"2005-02-22T20:00:33","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/2005\/02\/22\/church-and-state.html"},"modified":"2014-11-10T16:03:08","modified_gmt":"2014-11-10T23:03:08","slug":"church_and_stat","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2005\/02\/22\/church_and_stat.html","title":{"rendered":"Church and state"},"content":{"rendered":"

We are not in a theocracy<\/a>.<\/p>\n

We are not moving toward a theocracy.<\/p>\n

We do <\/em>seem to be moving toward a government and culture where majority religious beliefs (or at least the beliefs of vocal and powerful leaders) are driving more of public policy. <\/p>\n

On two levels, that’s not unusual. Most people — including political and social leaders — have ideologies and morals that inform their decisions and directions. Indeed, jokes about politicians aside, government by someone completely a<\/em>moral would be just as bad, if not worse. Principle (regardless of what it is) is often better than lack of principles (which usually translates into the principle of self-interest).<\/p>\n

The difference, as perceived in the current situation, is that the religious beliefs and ideologies seem to be driven from one particular faction of one particular religion, i.e., evangelical (or, depending on how you use the term, fundamentalist) Christians.<\/p>\n

By the same token, and on the other level, this is not a sudden change, or something completely foreign to US history. Indeed, one could argue that the last four decades have seen a remarkable and unique secularism in government and society, so subtle and yet so profound that people assume That’s The Way It’s Always Been. <\/p>\n

But while the separation of church and state was clearly a forefront principle for many of the Founders, it was also against a backdrop of a nation that was mostly Protestant Christian, where religious persecution meant Anglicans vs Puritans, Methodists vs Presbyterians, Catholics vs Lutherans, and the anti-establishment clause meant there would be no formal Church of America to go alongside the Church of England. Over the history of this nation, religious sentiment and the religious direction of those in power has ebbed and flowed, but generally stayed at a pretty high level, at least on a person (vs institutional\/organizational) level. A century ago, public morals laws, laws regardling blasphemy, and religious restrictions on any number of things, such as any literature on birth control — heck, alongside overt anti-Catholicism and anti-Mormonism, to go alongside the traditional anti-Semitism — were not only widely prevalent, they went without saying.<\/em><\/p>\n

If the Bush Administration, or its evangelical Christian allies, are driving us toward a “theocracy,” then that’s what the US has been for most of its history — if <\/em>we define “theocracy” as “government by people who are willing to let their personal and cultural religious principles direct their legislative and executive and judicial agendas.” <\/p>\n

If you want to talk about real <\/em>modern theocracies, of course, you need to look at Iran. Or, to lesser but still significant degrees, countries like Saudi Arabia, or Indonesia. Or even North Korea. Nations where there is an Official Authoritarian State Religion, and to not belong to it carries with it dire consequences, where to convert others to something different usually pulls a death penalty. <\/p>\n

We’re not there yet. We’re not even headed there yet.<\/p>\n

I’m by no means pleased by the social agenda that those on the evangelical Right are pushing. I agree that any number of the retrenchments they are pushing forward and through are harmful ones. I think that the modern principle of separation of church and state is a faboo idea. <\/p>\n

But the changes and directions we’ve seen have been tiny compared to the depths to which we can, historically and around us even today, see a national delve. Calling the US in 2005 a theocracy, even a budding one, is to debase the word (alongside, ironically, calling those same folks “fascists,” or calling folks who want to provide better national health care “communists,” or calling those who oppose the Christian Right “atheists” — or, for that matter, Sean Hannity equating liberalism with despotism and terrorism<\/a>) — and runs the risk of becoming a tired refrain that, like the Little Boy Who Cried Wolf, will eventually turn off those who need to hear it.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

We are not in a theocracy. We are not moving toward a theocracy. We do seem to be moving toward a government and culture where majority religious beliefs (or at…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_seopress_robots_follow":"","_seopress_robots_imageindex":"","_seopress_robots_snippet":"","_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_robots_breadcrumbs":"","_seopress_robots_freeze_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_custom_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_canonical":"","_seopress_social_fb_title":"","_seopress_social_fb_desc":"","_seopress_social_fb_img":"","_seopress_social_fb_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_height":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_title":"","_seopress_social_twitter_desc":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_height":0,"_seopress_redirections_value":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled_regex":"","_seopress_redirections_logged_status":"","_seopress_redirections_param":"","_seopress_redirections_type":0,"_seopress_analysis_target_kw":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[109,715,27],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-7489","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-church-state","category-crime-punishment","category-religion"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":41960,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2014\/05\/11\/give-them-an-inch-and-theyll-take-a-theocracy.html","url_meta":{"origin":7489,"position":0},"title":"Give them an inch and they'll take a theocracy","author":"***Dave","date":"Sun 11-May-14 11:43pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Christianists across the nation cheered the SCOTUS decision last week in Town of Greece v. Galloway about being able to open government meetings with an explicitly Christian prayer. After all, as Justice Kennedy, for the majority, optimistically pointed out, \"Our tradition assumes that adult citizens, firm in their own beliefs,\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":7734,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2005\/08\/25\/political_madra.html","url_meta":{"origin":7489,"position":1},"title":"Political madrassas?","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 25-Aug-05 7:55am","format":false,"excerpt":"I got forwarded an article on this from a friend, and saw that J-Walk had linked to it, too, so ... what do I think about this? Grooming Politicians for...","rel":"","context":"In "Politics & Law"","block_context":{"text":"Politics & Law","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/politics-law"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":129164,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2015\/12\/17\/religious-restrictions-on-hiring-have-limits.html","url_meta":{"origin":7489,"position":2},"title":"Religious restrictions on hiring have limits","author":"***Dave","date":"Thu 17-Dec-15 6:49pm","format":false,"excerpt":"It's pretty long-standing law that, while religious institutions have some freedoms when it comes to hiring, those freedoms have strict boundaries. To wit, restrictions on what constitutions a \"religious institution,\" and for what job we're talking about.So take the extreme case: it is considered legal (and morally defensible) that someone\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":26151,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2012\/02\/07\/the-contraception-rule-is-the-biggest-non-issue-of-all-time.html","url_meta":{"origin":7489,"position":3},"title":"The contraception rule is the biggest non-issue of all time","author":"***Dave","date":"Tue 7-Feb-12 7:14am","format":false,"excerpt":"Which is, of course, why it's getting such dramatic play on the Right, as part of some mythical \"War on Religion.\"So, just to set things straight:First and foremost, under the regulation, churches and religious institutions that employ primarily people of a single religion are exempt from this requirement. Your local\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":13240,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2009\/02\/09\/religion_morality_and_civ.html","url_meta":{"origin":7489,"position":4},"title":"Religion, morality, and civics","author":"***Dave","date":"Mon 9-Feb-09 3:26pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Pam raises some interesting questions on the blurring between church and state that takes place, not at the ballot box or city council meeting, but in the hearts and...","rel":"","context":"In "Politics & Law"","block_context":{"text":"Politics & Law","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/politics-law"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/images\/church-and-state.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":132426,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2016\/12\/23\/religious-freedom-for-atheists-too.html","url_meta":{"origin":7489,"position":5},"title":"Religious Freedom for Atheists, Too","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 23-Dec-16 11:10am","format":false,"excerpt":"I'm glad to see this 1998 US religious freedom law noted to include atheists and agnostics as well. '\"The freedom of thought, conscience, and religion is understood to protect theistic and non-theistic beliefs and the right not to profess or practice any religion.\"'Some folk like to play semantics and suggest\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7489","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=7489"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7489\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":47857,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7489\/revisions\/47857"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=7489"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=7489"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=7489"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}