{"id":808,"date":"2001-11-13T09:20:11","date_gmt":"2001-11-13T14:20:11","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/?p=808"},"modified":"2001-11-13T09:20:11","modified_gmt":"2001-11-13T14:20:11","slug":"theres_torture","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2001\/11\/13\/theres_torture.html","title":{"rendered":"There’s torture, and then there’s torture"},"content":{"rendered":"

Collin Levey notes<\/a> in the Christian Science Monitor<\/i> how talk of using torture on terrorism suspects has “in dizzying speed … gone from the province of the deranged and authoritarian to normal talk-show fodder in the land of the free.”<\/p>\n

What’s interesting is that, while Levey shrinks back from physical torture, for both ethical and pragmatic reasons, she has no compunction about psychological torture — as if lack of bruise, blood, or broken bones makes the results acceptible.<\/p>\n

Crude torture is both inefficient and degrading to both parties. Yet there are ways of getting to the truth. Americans, with all their ingenuity and a disproportionate share of the world’s clinical psychologists, ought to be able to crack this nut without lowering ourselves to bin Laden’s level.<\/p>\n

It may be more effective, but is psychological or emotional assault\/attack\/abuse\/torment\/torture really that much more defensible, morally, than physical assault\/attack\/abuse\/torment\/torture? Is it less “degrading to both parties”? I think not. After all, hasn’t that equivalence been the basis for hate crimes, harrassment laws, and various child abuse statutes?<\/p>\n

Aren’t we beginning to realize, as a society, that mental illness deserves the same respect and level of treatment as physical illness? Doesn’t that mean that, in turn, inflicting mental wounds is somehow the same as inflicting physical wounds?<\/p>\n

Taking this approach doesn’t clear up the issue of whether such pressure tactics are, in fact, justified in certain cases. I wish it did. All it does is muddy the waters by giving us the illusion that, because the injuries don’t show up on an X-ray, they don’t really count against us for causing them.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Collin Levey notes in the Christian Science Monitor how talk of using torture on terrorism suspects has “in dizzying speed … gone from the province of the deranged and authoritarian…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_seopress_robots_follow":"","_seopress_robots_imageindex":"","_seopress_robots_snippet":"","_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_robots_breadcrumbs":"","_seopress_robots_freeze_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_custom_modified_date":"","_seopress_robots_canonical":"","_seopress_social_fb_title":"","_seopress_social_fb_desc":"","_seopress_social_fb_img":"","_seopress_social_fb_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_fb_img_height":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_title":"","_seopress_social_twitter_desc":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img":"","_seopress_social_twitter_img_attachment_id":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_width":0,"_seopress_social_twitter_img_height":0,"_seopress_redirections_value":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled":"","_seopress_redirections_enabled_regex":"","_seopress_redirections_logged_status":"","_seopress_redirections_param":"","_seopress_redirections_type":0,"_seopress_analysis_target_kw":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[10],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-808","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-geopolitical-brouhaha"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":6012,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2004\/06\/07\/your_agonizer_p.html","url_meta":{"origin":808,"position":0},"title":"Your agonizer, please …","author":"***Dave","date":"Mon 7-Jun-04 9:11pm","format":false,"excerpt":"So, if you could come up with a science-fiction style ray gun that simply made someone feel a whole bunch of pain -- and thus could be used as a...","rel":"","context":"In "Hi-Tech"","block_context":{"text":"Hi-Tech","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/hi-tech"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":131873,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2016\/10\/24\/the-president-cant-declare-torture-legal.html","url_meta":{"origin":808,"position":1},"title":"The President can't declare torture legal","author":"***Dave","date":"Mon 24-Oct-16 9:30pm","format":false,"excerpt":"That should actually be a relief to everyone, even if they're really scared of Evil Muslim Terrorists. Major New Court Ruling Says \u201cEven The President\u201d Can\u2019t Declare Torture Lawful The ruling reinstates a lawsuit against a military contractor for its role in the torture of four men at the notorious\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":136408,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2018\/05\/11\/since-we-seem-to-be-having-the-torture-debate-again.html","url_meta":{"origin":808,"position":2},"title":"Since we seem to be having the torture debate AGAIN","author":"***Dave","date":"Fri 11-May-18 11:25am","format":false,"excerpt":"Guess I need to post this AGAIN. \u00a0 View on Google+","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/torture%2Bworks.PNGimgmax%3D660.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/torture%2Bworks.PNGimgmax%3D660.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/torture%2Bworks.PNGimgmax%3D660.png?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x"},"classes":[]},{"id":129664,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2016\/02\/07\/because-torture-is-cool-now.html","url_meta":{"origin":808,"position":3},"title":"Because torture is cool now","author":"***Dave","date":"Sun 7-Feb-16 8:53pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Not sure which answer was the worst:1. Trump: Waterboarding is so wimpy, I'd really torture their asses.2. Cruz: No, no, waterboarding is not torture. But we won't do it under my watch. Much.3. Jeb!: It was never really used much by my brother, and Congress has changed the law now,\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":136351,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2018\/05\/09\/dark-things-cannot-stand-the-light.html","url_meta":{"origin":808,"position":4},"title":"Dark Things Cannot Stand the Light","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 9-May-18 10:39am","format":false,"excerpt":"It would be a depressing discussion over beer as to which is worse, torture or covering up torture, because torture is a depressing subject regardless of how you approach it. But that aside, and regardless of \"just following orders\" or \"yeah, we checked with legal first\" excuses, the argument below\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "~PlusPosts"","block_context":{"text":"~PlusPosts","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/blogging\/plusposts"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/gina-haspel.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/gina-haspel.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/gina-haspel.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/gina-haspel.jpg?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/gina-haspel.jpg?resize=1050%2C600&ssl=1 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":12168,"url":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/2007\/10\/31\/an_appropriately_horrifyi.html","url_meta":{"origin":808,"position":5},"title":"An appropriately horrifying Halloween topic","author":"***Dave","date":"Wed 31-Oct-07 7:42pm","format":false,"excerpt":"Torture. Bush's Attorney General \u00a0nominee, Michael Mukasey, hailed as \"Oh my God, after an ideologue like John Ashcroft and an incompetent stooge like Alberto Gonzalez the next best thing to...","rel":"","context":"In "Geopolitical Brouhaha"","block_context":{"text":"Geopolitical Brouhaha","link":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/category\/geopolitical-brouhaha"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/808","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=808"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/808\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=808"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=808"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hill-kleerup.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=808"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}