“University politics are vicious precisely because the stakes are so small.” — Henry Kissinger
I don’t know what it is that makes political infighting so nasty in social groups, except for how Dr. Kissinger puts it.
Regardless, nasty and vicious is what we ended up with in the big Alliance Schism of 2006.
I’m certainly pleased to see some folks out on their asses, don’t get me wrong. Other folks I’m sorry to see go, and some of the groups that were booted could have remained so far as I was concerned.
The whole thing was executed horribly (though, to be fair, I’m unsure what triggered the actual timing, unless it was Bill spilling the beans), and it could have been framed and spun a lot better (and, evidently, was intended to be). But, bottom line, “freedom of association” (as well as “he who pays the piper calls the tunes”) meant that if the Phalanx leadership wanted to get rid of some groups, that was their prerogative. And, on balance, I’d rather be with the ones left than the ones kicked out. There are exceptions, on both sides, but if the line is drawn, I know which side I want to be on..
Evil clique? Whatever. I’d expect a truly evil clique to be better organized. And spend less time agonizing over this stuff. And have cool t-shirts.
I’m not a confrontational kind of guy. I would likely never have taken a step like this, and would never, ever have done it as it was done. There are people I’ll miss, people I’m sorry have left, and others who, if I won’t exactly miss, I wouldn’t have minded if they were still around.
On the other hand, there are some folks whose nattering in CC will not be missed by me at all.
And all that said — I’m not going to lose a lot of sleep over it tonight.
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***Dave Does the Game
Thank you Dave.
Er… Me too +1, excepting the bit about it affecting my sleep.
I entered semi-retirement after the last Tempest in a Teacup to preserve what remained of my sanity.
I’ve been an an utter loss as to what to post on the forums.
It did seem to me that there were people who wanted to have problems on both sides of this. I can only hope that post-schism they can all find a place where they are happier.
I definitely wish happiness and a more fulfilling gaming experience to everyone in the Alliance, before and after.
To clarify my earlier post, I did not mean to imply that this is a Tempest in a Teacup. How does that line go?
“This is not a ‘Whoops’. This is a ‘WAAAAAAUUUUGGGHH!’ ”
No, it’s certainly not a Tempest in a Teacup.
I’ll confess that I’m finding the “shrug” factor viz Alliance leadership activities increasing over time. since my interest is in having fun with my friends (which was the main reason I started the CoJ to begin with), my willingness to go through the hassle of doing much more than what’s necessary to facilitate that (selfishly or not) continues to dwindle.
I’ve got enough parlous political situations at my office to make me feel inclined to search them out at home.
It occurs to me that the problem we have in the Alliance as a whole is a lack of accountability — amongst the leadershp and membership alike.
Folks can essentially do what they want — indeed, feel entitled to do so — with little anyone can do other than sever ties with them (refuse to team, /ignore, kick them from an SG, kick their SG from coalition, lock them out of the boards).
Members can be as rude and obnoxious as they like, as lackadaisical as they like, as cliquish and conspiratorial as they like, and the actual real impact on them for their actions is minimal.
Leaders can similarly be dictatorial, absentee, permissive, controlling, etc., and there’s not much anyone can do except quit. Or kvetch.
The only thing anyone really has at stake is the money they pay to PlayNC each month.
The Alliance leadership has tried to run things as a democracy. But that’s a poor model, because there are no serious consequences to bad decisions, nothing but indirect social implications (and there will always be folks who support a given action, regardless of what it is, just as there will always be folks who criticize it).
Further, it’s not really a democracy, any more than the UN is. The national leadership represented at the UN doesn’t necessarily represent the will of the peoples represented. And the security council, self-appointed, can screw things up regardless of what the general assembly wants (either in doing something or in keeping something from being done).
We’ve spent inordinate time trying to come up with elaborate procedures and rules — and have been stymied both by folks who didn’t want any rules and by folks who demonstrated that rules are only as strong as the willingness of those with the guns to enforce them.
Fine. I’m willing to live in a relatively benign dictatorship, and even be one of the advisory council thereto. I’d rather face that reality and work with it, then pretend that there’s some grand spirit of cooperation out there willing to be tapped into by everyone in the Alliance, or that we’re all bound by a nice, neat, inviolable rule book.
*claps*
(I keep worrying at this, which probably indicates I’m not nearly as unaffected by the episode as I’d like to be.)
Pretending doesn’t make things so.
I’ve actually run into this in other groups and organizations, too (a mailing list I’m a moderator on; a parish I’ve helped edit the by-laws for).
Face the reality when putting together an organization.
Recognize that in your organization, and you won’t be disappointed or surprised.
Yes…
You hit the nail on the head Dave.
I came to that realization last month and it was painfull to acknowledge that there was nothing to be done about a problem. So I had to take the matter in to my own hands.
Last night was miserable for me. This coming on top of a 7-hour stint in the emergency room for colitis and the mixed news regarding my new job just made it that much more stressful. And you know I’d be losing sleep over it anyway.
If Bill hadn’t spilled the beans, four groups were still going to be cut out of the chat anyway, if I understand the situation. That means that no matter what, I’d have to choose which of my friends I want to RP with in that venue.
I sat there last night, watching Phalanxers log in, be told what had happened, and quit. That leaves me with a very troubling, most painful, and exceedingly difficult decision. Which friends do I join, and which do I abandon?
Yes, I can still team with the others, but it’s going to be much more uncommon. If I leave, I’ll never hear Psi-clone ask for help with a timed bomb mission, nor will Ted and Avo have more hilarious miscomms. If I stay, I won’t get to hear Cally being thoroughly confused by comments in CC, and I’ll miss out any many more calls for assistance (as, in fact, I did last night).
I don’t like what’s happened at all. It’s going to diminish my enjoyment of the game. The Alliance has meant so much to me for all these months. But it’s happened, and now I really just want people to stop pointing fingers and spewing vitriol.
You raised one point I’d like to address, Dave. You said, “The Alliance leadership has tried to run things as a democracy.” When Ulric was explaining OOC to a few of us today what had happened, we were didturbed by the fact that all these decisions had been made by the leadership without the knowledge of the rank and file. We were told then that there had been complaints about CC behavior from multiple groups, but not until after the leaders had already decided on what actions were to be taken, and not even how many people had complained. Being presented with a fait accompli is certain to make people feel impotent, and that’s never good. Frankly, however this had played out, a lot of people, in the Phalanx as well as in the groups we were going to sever CC with, were going to wind up feeling… I don’t know, betrayed? Or at least inconsequential.
I can’t shake the feeling that this is once again a case where a very vocal minority has spurred leadership into taking actions that weren’t in the best interest of the whole )and I’m not speaking here of just the Alliance, but let’s not get into national or world politics).
Anyway, I hope that, whatever decision I make for Avo, all of my friends will continue to be my friends, and not feel that I’ve betrayed them. You guys… all of you guys… are the closest thing to family I have or am likely to ever have. You know, I assume, that I never mean to alienate anybody, even though I’ve managed it more than once. We can still be friends, right? Right?
You can’t make nice with folks who aren’t interested in making nice. You can’t hem folks in with procedures and standards (especially if they have a hand in crafting them) unless you can hold them accountable for same.
Better to accept and trust in the whims of the benign dictatorship (with the recourse of leaving, yourself, if you disagree with it) then to pretend that a group of folks with no actual responsibility toward each other and no penalty for behaving badly will, in fact, all magically make nice.
The problem with pretending to a rule of law (especially when the law is so weak as to be useless) is that when it’s broken, even for the best of reasons and in the kindest of ways, the breaking of the pretense becomes a breaking of expectations (not to mention trust). Which means, in this case, that some folks are going to leave, not because they particularly like playing with Reese (just to grab an example) but because they think he was treated unfairly.
Again, better to set up expectations appropriately ahead of time. (Which is why the CoJ is, explicitly, a benign dictatorship, not a democracy, and is clearly stated to be subject to the leadership’s whims.)
Rrg.
Avo (and you posted your comment above while I was posting mine, so this one is the actual response), certainly one of the costs of this will be the breaking apart of stories and common gaming opportunities that would otherwise be available. There is, alas, only one “coalition” a given team can be in. Global channels can be used as a clumsier, less enjoyable substitute.
That’s how it goes. No good or easy answers.
Avo…
Un like some that I could mention, I will not be deleting you off of my Global Friends list….So if I am on and you need help or whatever…just let me know. 🙂
To clarify…
Others deleting me off of their list. I would not nor shall I delete anyone.
Agreed. Folks are on my global list for a reason. Anyone I wouldn’t want to talk to I wouldn’t have there.
Confluence
A combination of major job assignments cropping up like huge, carnivorous toadstools, combined with irksome levels of angst over recent CoH coalition brouhaha, not to mention my last Vestry meeting…
Me too +1.
I have no intentions of deleting anyone.
Dave, thank you for stating things so well.
Well, I’m glad I was able to state something so well today. 🙂
(quoting ***Dave:)
1. There will be some selfless people looking out for the group — its people and its goals.
2. There will be a lot of apathetic people who don’t care.
—
Fifteen months ago, I was solidly in group #1. I honestly never wanted, nor expected, to be in a leadership position in the Alliance ( much less the Phalanx ) and only really took it on because Stateswoman asked me too and because I could help get the thing off the ground.
I have to admit I am much more in group #2 these days. I just can’t work up the interest to login and even read the forums right now. It just doesn’t matter enough to me at the moment. Which is probably not a good thing at all, and leaves me wondering if I should find someone to replace me at the leadership level I am at. I’ve handed off pretty much all of my SG level stuff to the other officers already, I only have the top-level leader-crap to deal with these days and that is usually the suckiest part.
This didn’t happen the way I wanted it to. To be honest, I didn’t particularly want this to happen. But I endorsed the consideration of the idea because it was the best of several poor solutions to a problem caused by a small group of players who seemed to feel that because they couldn’t be held accountable for their behavior they were free to behave as poorly as they wanted.
There is really no need to go into exactly which group of players that is / was, it is likely pretty obvious to those people who actually still had CC on before this happened.
What this ends up meaning is that it is the start of another time of re-building and trying to bring new people ( or re-recruit people who have left ) in to the Alliance and its current SGs. Something I have never in truth been that good at doing myself.
Frustrated. Tired. Apathetic.
That about sums up my mood right now.
That’s too bad Hythian….really.
Where as last night made me want to do better and make things work….which I now see happening.
Last night saying good-bye to people was sad, but talking to PoUlric, PoMacro, PoKessa and of course the wonderful Po76 really helped my out look.
So tonight I think I have bot’s or somesuch to take on.
This whole thing continues to worry and irk me, more than I thought it was going to. In part because I hate confrontation. In part because I wonder about my own role in this and what I ought to have done differently. In part because I remain relieved that some of the folks now departed are, in fact, departed, even if they took some other good folks with them.
On the other hand, I did run across a few people last night who either haven’t been on or who have been off comms/CC for a long time. Which, to my mind, is a good sign.
Yeppers…
The talking helped with that too…
It helped me see that of the two ways I could have dealt with everything would have been valid, but that neither would have worked.
I could have done as I did and maintain my on sanity, or become like those I had problems with and yelled and screamed and taken every slight to me and others to the Tribs to be taken to the Leadership boards.
So, going with dealing with folks on a personal level and offering them solutions to the problems that they were having was what was best for me because that is how I work. The other approach would have only sped up what happened while I was off having fun.
So, in the end, the choices were becoming the “Bad Cop” manager that I was at the Flats…and all the crazy that that makes me…or…trying to be the adult and see it as just a game and that everyone is just trying to have fun in their own way.
I feel better for choosing the latter.
RL First.
Last night was awful. Quitting the Phalanx was the roughest thing I’ve ever had to do in-game, and the game is such a big part of my life that it was pretty high on my list of RL Tough Jobs too. Should I worry that I actually cried at the time? Or that I’m tearing up again as I write this? (The fact that it came a mere three weeks before the anniversary of my joining the Alliance only made it that much rougher.)
I can’t believe I’m not going to hear any of you guys on CC anymore! I really, really hate leaving all of you, but the fact is… I don’t really move in the same circle as you these days. All of the people I play with on a regular basis are in groups that are no longer part of the Alliance.
Well, as bad as the situation is, Dave and Stan helped a lot by being so gracious to me when I made the oh-so-painful announcement. Stan, thanks so much for going out of your way to reassure me, in SG chat, CC, private Tells, and also the email you sent me. I can’t begin to tell how much that means to me. You guys are great. And most of you still have me on Global, so please, please don’t hesitate to give me a shout if you ever need a high-level Blaster to round out a team. Heck, give my villains a call! Zot’s the only one I’ve teamed with on that side. (Thank you, Stan, for looking me up in CoV, too! I tend to be too introverted to seek people out, and it was really nice to be invited to join you!)
‘Scuse me now. Gotta find some more tissues.
I am sorry to see you “go,” too, Avo. But I understand in terms of the circle of regulars you hang with, and I’m not surprised (nor angry nor anything like that).
I do still have you @gfriended, and will keep my eyes out for you.
Yeppers…
NP Avo…really. 😀
I think I spent a large chunk of my time talking to folks in tells and talking to them about what was going on and letting them know that I was fine and had no hard feelings toward anyone.
Even the ones that were upset at me for unknown reasons, and then dropped me off of their Gfriends list. I think it started to become a joke with me about half way through and I would send them a tell back saying that I hoped that they would have fun now since that is the purpose of the game.
All.
About.
The.
Fun.
With people you like to have fun with.
Well heaven knows I’m not paying my $15/month to get heartburn or headaches. 🙂
Words worth remembering, BD.
Well…
Just remembering what a very Wise woman told me years ago.
“Let go, and Let god.”
Not that I am Godly in any way…but it does help put things in focus.
Avo, I’ll hope to still see you around somewhere. As I remember it, some of our best RP was when I flew over you, turned around, and came back for an impromtu chat. And that can still, and should still happen. Noelle will still be around.
And if Noelle can’t cheer you up, nobody can. 🙂
Chit-chat
More PC/A goodness last night, hunting Carnies in PI, clearing Rikti on alternate Earths, and facing down scary-looking-but-pretty-flimsy Praetorian clockwork. The latter mish was with Puck Bunny, who’s also at 45. PB’s play was erratic as Player-of-PB…
Chit-chat
More PC/A goodness last night, hunting Carnies in PI, clearing Rikti on alternate Earths, and facing down scary-looking-but-pretty-flimsy Praetorian clockwork. The latter mish was with Puck Bunny, who’s also at 45. PB’s play was erratic as Player-of-PB…
An apology has been posted from Puck on the forums of both Alliances. I hope that this will help in some way….hopefully to allow people to move on and enjoy things again. Writing the thing out made me very depressed though. Not the apologizing part…that was very cathartic, but having to look at all my failures and deal with them.
It made me feel like the entire time of being an officer was like being Scotty from Star Trek screaming “The crystals canna take any more cap’n”
So, a glorious failure or a waste of time to have even tried…I have no clue really anymore.
Well, to be honest, I really have no idea what you’re apologizing for, though it’s clearly sincerely felt.