First, the semi-liveblogging
| Event/Moderator | Biden | Palin |
| Gwen Ifill intro. Strong and well-spoken. 5 minute segments, 90 seconds initial, then follow-ups. Questions by her. | Smiling pol. | Smiles. Blow kiss. “Can I call you Joe?” “Thank you.” mic carries. |
| Bail-out bill and Congressional mess. Worst or best of Washington . | 1. Thanks. Pleasure to meet you, Governor. Ties back to this Administration, lack of Administration. Lots of looking at notes. Palin is looking down at her notes while Biden speaks. Gives Obama’s stance – what he called for. Voice sound hoarse. He was coughing after he came on. Middle Class! | 2. Thanks. privilege. Looking at the camera! Go to a kid’s soccer game – how are you feeling about the economy. Fear, I’ll betcha! Fear about losing investments. Biden is watching her. Government hasn’t been giving firm oversight. Looks nervous. John McCain has been all about warning bells and reform of financial markets for years. His bipartisan efforts to bring folks together this past week, even suspending his campaign! |
| Being VP? How reducing polarization? | 1. Been doing that whole career – VAWA, more cops on street, genocide inBosnia . Have been able to reach across the aisle. Then returns to previous question. McCain “fundamentals are strong” and “made great economic progress” – then backed down within hours. Doesn’t make him bad, just out of touch. | 2. John in referring to fundamentals talking to/for the American work force. They’re spiffy! As a mayor and governor, record of reform, team of mavericks, putting partisan politics aside. Obama has only voted along party lines – 96% of votes. Tired of the old politics, with all due respect, respect your years, but people are craving something new and different. Maverick of the senate. |
| Subprime lending meltdown/ Who’s at fault? | 2. 2 years ago Obama warned about subprime problem. McCain said at the same time he was surprised by it. McCain was saying that he was always for cutting regulations. McCain thought lettingWall St running wild was right – deregulate. Republican response. And wants to deregulate the health care industry like he did the financial industry. High prices of gas – anecdote about someone. 4. Charge not true. McCain voted the same way as Obama, didn’t raise it. Standard by governor, McCain voted 477 times to raise taxes. But she didn’t answer questions of deregulation and John McCain supporting it. | 1. Starting. Predator lenders deceiving, greedily. Corrupt Wall Street. We have that commitment to stop that. Still looking at camera. Blink. Blink. Blink. Joe Sixpack, Hockey Moms, resolving we’ll never be exploited again. And we need to be responsible about not getting into debt, too. 3. Darn right we need tax relief. Obama and Biden are in favor of largest tax increases inUS history, siding on the people’s side, 94 times voting to increase or not support decreases. Government has to live with less. Increasing taxes for families making $42K. 5. I’m gonna talk straight to the American people. Reduced taxes every year as mayor, and reduced taxes as governor. McCain is known for pushing for stronger regulations. Biden smiling. |
| Taxes. Dems raising taxes on those over $250K. Class warfare? GOP taxing health benefits, taking it out on the poor? | 1. It’s about fairness. The middle class is struggling under McCain’s tax proposals. Households get no break in taxes. Nobody under $250K will see taxes increase. And most under $150K will get a tax break. middle class is the economic engine. Now he looks at the camera. McCain wants to cut taxes for the wealthy and corporations, but nothing for middle class. He looks a bit pale. People will pay no more than. 3. Where to start. It’s not redistribution of wealth to not give Exxon a $4bn tax credit, that’s fairness. 95% of small business make < $250K – no increase in taxes. Giving, but also taking. McCain pays for his $5K by taxing as income the health care benefits. $5K plan will go straight to the insurance company, replacing a $12K plan for the 20mn who will be dropped from health care. Ultimate bridge tto nowhere. | 2. Redistribution of wealth principle. Obama’s plan to tax increase – forgetting the millions of small businesses that will be hit by those taxes. You said that paying higher taxes is patriotic – middle class disagrees, government is the problem, Joe Sixpack says. Increased tax formula and trillion dollars of spending. And McCain’s health care plan is detailed, and here are some talking poins. $5K tax credit, while Obama will mandate universal government run program. Evil Feds! Evil! Laugh. McCain suggestion is budget-neutral. Artificial lines between states, competing between states. |
| What promises – given the bailout plan – will yo not be able to keep. | 1. May have to slow down commitment to double foreign assistance. And will nto go forward with McCain tax proposals and the existing ones ($130bn this year alone), and all the other bns of tax cuts. Will not hold up on incentives by new jobs with an energy policy, education, nor affordable health care. Stumbling in speech to cover all his points. Oh, yeah, $100bn tax dodge to move post office boxes offshore to avoid taxes, and *that’s* unpatriotic. 3. Obama voted for an energy bill that had support for alternative energy. He voted to eliminate tax breaks, while McCain did not. Why is McCain adding into his budget more tax cuts for ExxonMobils? Yeah, Palin supported a windfall profits tax. We want to do the same thing. McCain does not. he wants to give tax cuts on top of their profits. Hope she can convince McCain to do it. | 2. McCain doesn’t tell one thing to one group and another thing to another group. Back to the energy plan. Obama voted in 05, that’s what gave those energy companies those tax breaks. And I had to take on those oil companies, no greed in my state! Corporate CEOs are not my favorite fans! The people come first! Value to the people ofAlaska ! No tax breaks to multinationals when it affects the people who live there. I had to undo what Obama did in my area of expertise, energy. No, there’s nothing that I’ve promised I’d have to give back – because I haven’t had time to do more than to promise to be a paragon of virtue and a hard fighter. And McCain will keep all his promises, too. Yay! |
| Congress passed bankruptcy reform. McCain supported … | 2. [Moderator: Biden voted for it, Obama against it.] Only 10% of people affected from Chapter 7 to 13 … we disagreed on it. But Obama pointed out 2 years ago that there was a subprime mortgage crisis, and warned treasury. McCain just last year said he was surprised by the crisis. What should we be doing about bankruptcy? The bankruptcy courts should be able to adjust the rates and principal owed. They don’t support that, nor does Bush, even though it would help people. | 1. Yes, I would have supported it. But there have been such changes and revelations of corruption onWall St . McCain was calling for reform even back then! We have him to tank for warning people, and bringing in a bipartisan effort, putting the campaign aside, to fix the problem, the crisis, the toxic mess onMain St affectingWall St . 3. No, that’s not true. But … energy! I want to talk about energy policy plan! We have to consider how we let this nation become energy-independent. We have domestic supplies of energy, and east coast politicians keep patriotic Alaskans from tapping into those resources, helping those foreign countries that don’t like us to mock us! Evil! Energy independence! Energy plans are not just about tax breaks. |
| Energy issues. Climate change. What’s true and false? | 2. Clearly manmade. Biggest difference between all of us. If you don’t understand the cause, you can’t come up with a solution. It’s man-made. That’s the cause. We have 3% of the reserves, we consume 25% of the oil. McCain has voted against alternative, clean energy sources. By investing in clean coal and safe nuclear we can build wind and solar and export that stuff – but we could export that technology toChina to help that pollution, and it would create jobs. McCain has voted 20 times against alternative energy sources. Drill we must, yeah, but 10 years for any of that oil to flow. 3. Clean coal. My record is supporting it for 20 years. I was talking about exporting that technology toChina . If the only answer is oil, how does that cap carbon emissions? | 1. As the natoin’s only arctic state,Alaska sees the impact moreso than any other state, we know it’s real. I won’t attribute the changes all to man, but part is cyclical climate changes, but there are real changes. Don’t want ot argue the causes. How do we “positively affect the impacts”? First governor to have a climate change impacts. McCain agrees with this. We have to be energy independent. We rely on other countries that pollute more than we do! Tap into alternatives, conserving petroleum products and hydrocarbons so we can babble babble babble. 2. Caps on carbon emissions, McCain supports. Chant is drill baby drill. People are hungry for those domestic sources. Even inAlaska we have millions of barrels of oil. Clean, green natural gas. (!) Pipeline. Obama/Biden — offshore drilling is raping the continental shelf?! It’s safe to drill! McCain also voted for alternatives. Nucular! Clean coal – you said no! Yes, I support capping carbon emissions. |
| Support same-sex benefits to couples as in Alaska ? | 1. Absolutely, positively. No distinction form a constitution and legal standpoint between same-sex and hetero couples. constitutional issue. It’s only fair. We do support that committed couples and same-sex marriage have same constitutional benefits for insurance, visitation, etc 2. We do not support gay *marriage*. That’s a decision for faiths. Take the governor at her word that there should be no civil rights distinction. If that’s the case, we have no disagreement. | 2. Not if it goes closer and closer to “marriage.” I would certainly be tolerant of people choosing their partners and relationships. I have diverse family and friends, and some dear friends don’t agree with me. but nobody would ever propose in our administration to prohibit visitations in hospitals. But I don’t support defining marriage etc etc etc. Being straight-up (ha!) with Americans. 4. Yes, I don’t support gay marriage. |
| Foreign policy. Sons in or on the way to Iraq . Clear plan to exit strategy. | 2. I didn’t hear a plan. Obama has offered on. It’s what the PM ofIraq and Bush are negotiation. The only one left out is McCain. And Obama not funding? McCain voted the same way, when it had a time table in it, and he voted against funding for it. Barack and I agree that you need a time line to draw down troops, shift responsibility, spending tons of money. We will end this war. For McCain there is no end in sight. 4. John McCain voted against funding the troops – he voted against a bill I had put together that had NRAPs for protecting troops because it had a time line. McCain / Cheney, when I was saying that this war would be a mess, were saying that everything would be happy there, we’d have oil to pay for it, he’s been dead wrong, I love him, but he’s been dead wrong, and Obama has been right. | 1. Glad we have a good plan. Surge! Yay! Petreus! Yay! Mccain! Surge opposed surge! Opposed funding troops! Respected Biden when he called him out on it. Obama said he would not, and he turned around and voted against it. We have a plan for withdrawal. Not early! No, we have to win! But the surge thathas worked, we are at pre-syurge numbers, and we can put more troops inAfghanistan , and we have to grow our military, and fight Shia extremists, and we cant’s quit! 3. Um … your plan is a white flag of surrender. Our troops don’t need ot hear that! You opposed the surge, and won’t admit it worked. We’ll know when we’re finished whenIraq can do it themselves, and our commanders will tell us when. And Biden said you’d be willing to run on McCain’s ticket! You also said Obama was not ready to be C-in-C. Respect for your family having a son in the national guard. Any one who can cut off funding for troops, evil! |
| Iran andPakistan – nuclearIran or unstable Pakistan ? | 1. Both dangerous. I;ve focused for a lon g time onPakistan because they have nuclear weapons. Iran would be dangerous, but not close to getting it. Both would be dangerous. John keeps saying the central front on terror is inIraq – but if another attack happens, it will come from alQuaeda inAfghanistan andPakistan . We need to support those governments. We should be building them schools, not madrassas. And we’ll get Osama. | 2. Petreus said that the central front inIraq . Believe him. So does alQaeda. Nucular-armedIran is toooooo dangerous. Cannot allow. Israel in danger! Iran is mean! Can pronounce Akmandinijad. But not nucular. Obama will meet with preconditions. That’s not naïve, that’s dangerous! Those bad guys should not be met with without preconditions. |
| Baker, Kissinger, Powell, etc., have all advocated engagement with enemies. Are they wrong? | 2. This is just not true. obama didn’t say he would. McCain is goofy saying Akmandinijad controls the security apparatus. It’s nifty that they want to bring our friend sna allies along, but they’ve been saying we should sit down and talk, and Mccain will go along with an agreement but won’t sit down and talk down and talk with our enemies. Even Bush is doing that! And Mccain said he wouldn’t even sit down with the government ofSpain ! | 1. I had a great conversation with Kissinger recently. His passion for diplomacy. We’d do that. But with these dictators who hateAmerica and freedom and women’s rights and stuff. They cannot be met with as Obama said he would be willing to do, etc. etc. etc. But diplomacy is hard work, sanctions lined up, friends backing up. |
| Israel ? What has this administration done right or wrong? | 2. Nobody has been a better friend ofIsrael than Joe Biden (3rd person). Obama is the same. This administration has been an abject failure; Rice is trying to turn around a bad series of policy decisions by the Administration. Iran is on the march, including inLebanon andGaza . We will backIsrael in negotiating. 4. Past is prolog. How different will McCain policy will be different than Bush onIran , orIsrael , orAfghanistan , orPakistan . (Great lines!) And we know where that has taken us. We will make significant change so that we are the most respected nation in world. | 1. Two state solution ins the solution. Secty Rice is trying to forge that peace. That needs to be done. And that will be a top of the agenda item. We need to assureIsrael there will never be a second holocaust, despiteIran . We want a two state solution, and building an embassy inJerusalem . That commitment is there. 3. No, this Admin hasn’t been an abject failure. But glad Biden loves Israel. Lookning backward and blame game, people will get tired of that. Yeah, blunders in the past, but change means looking forward, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Government on the side o the people, no partisanship, McCain rah! Maverick! Biden loves him! Change is coming! |
| Interventionism. Nuclear weapons. When? | 2. Afghanistan . Facts matter. Our commanding general there said today that the surge Will Not Work There. That’s not Biden. That’s the commander there. We need more troops, spending. We spend more money on combat iniraq in 3 weeks than the last 7 years inAfghanistan . Repeat. Arms control and weapons – nuclear weapons require an arms control regime. McCain voted against the test ban treaty. He’s opposed inspections in the treaty. Obama, first thing he did, raced across the aisle to Dick Luger about preventing nukes to terrorists, they put together legislation, and McCain oppoed. 4. Yes, he did say that. And while we’ve been calling for more money fand troops forAfghanistan , McCain says we’ve succeeded there. | 1. That would be be-all, end-all of too many blather blather incoherency. We have a deterrent, safe, those country likeNorth Korea , we need to put economic sanctions, friends, allies, to make sure they don’t acuiqre, proliferate, use nukes. Afghanistan . The surge principles ofIraq need to be implemented inAfghanistan . Reckless comments from Obama – we’re doing keen things and helping children and puppy dogs and we’ll win. 3. McClellan did not say the surge principles wouldn’t apply. The conditions are different. But the counterinsurgency principles could work. [Yes, he did.] [Could not hear what she was saying because Margie was yelling at Palin.] |
| Biden – interventionist in Serbia, Iraq, nowDarfur . Will American public back? | 1. America will support success.Bosnia saved 10Ks of lives. McCain opposed it. People didn’t believe it would work, but it has. InIraq , I voted for the power to let Bush have the power to continue sanctions, etc., but argued against the war, but McCain said it would all be okay. Darfur – we can impose a no-fly zone, we can lead NATO, I’ve been there, horrible suffering, we should rally the world to act, and demonstrate it by helping. | 2. I’m aWashington outside, obviously – you voted for it, but now you’re against it. Americans want straight talk. You supported McCain’s war strategies before this candidacy. And Obama cut funding for troops! I agree onDarfur . What I’ve done is we’ve taken a fund and divested funding fromSudan … or will, once the legislation has passed.. |
| When do we decide to go in? | 1. When we have the capacity to act. When a country does these evil things, that country forfeits right to not be intervened on. But I never supported McCain’s strategy on the war, which were the same with Cheney. I said that war would be a real mess. I said all these things. McCain wa sin lockstep with Cheney. Not just whether to go, but support for the conduct of the war. | 2. Disagree. Did you support Obama or McCain … we listened to the debates and we’ll have some fact checking in the morning. McCain knows how to win a war, he’s had the experience, etc. he will now how t implement strategies, listening to commanders, taking the politics out of war issues. |
| Heartbeat away. You disagree on some things with your principles. How would your admin be different. | 1. God forbid. A national tragedy. I would carry out Obama’s policies. Supporting middle class, even break, health insurance, etc. etc etc. Energy policy, jobs, foreign policy to ends war and gets bin Laden and engages our allies, rejecting the Bush Doctrine (and what it is, nice!). This is a critical election, most important since 1932. I believe in every major initiative he is suggesting. 2. Go downUnion Street , folksy stuff. Ask about economic and foreign policy has helped them, and if McCain really differs from them, and they don’t think so. People in my neighborhood get it. Walk with me in my neighborhood,Scranton , steel town. Middle class has gotten short end, wealthy etc. | 2. Heaven forbid, for either party. Team of mavericks will not agree on everything. I will keep pushing on ANWR. He wants healthy debate. I would continue the good work he is commited to, government on the side of people, ending greed and corruption,Wasilla Main Street . Every-day working class Americans, get out of the way, don’t take my money and tell me what to do. Support a ticket that creates jobs and end war. Vs. a party that increases taxes. 4. Looking backwards! Not Bush Administration! Look ahead. Education, yeah, important, love your wife, yeah we need to focus more, ramp up funding in schools, pay teachers more. My family was school teachers. We need to increase standards, we need flexibility in No Child Left Behind. Public school. Need to ramp it up. |
| Palin – what does VP do? Biden – would not be VP. So, what is it worth now. | 2. Education. John isn’t supporting any funding for anything. Role of VP – had a long talk like the governor did. I have a history of getting things done in the Senate. I’m the point person for legislative initiatives. Want help with governance to give best advice. He’s president, not me. Wants someone with independent judgment and freedom to disagree, and that’s my reputation. 4. VP Cheney is most dangerous VP in Americna history. Article I defines the role of the VP, he’s in the executive branch. The number one role is to support the president, and to preside over the senate to break ties. That’s the only authority for legislature, the whole idea is bizarre to aggrandize the power of a unitary executive.e | 1. It was a lame joke, so was yours, too. Preside over Senate (thankful). And John and I have had good conversations about how to lead in his agenda, government reform, energy independence, special needs families. That’s where John wants me to lead. 3. [Is the VP not executive?] The founders gave the Constitution a lot of flexibility to the VP. We will do what’s best for the etc etc etc – lots of flexibility, will do what we have to do, my executive experience as a governor and mayor and regulator and business owner. |
| Conventional wisdom. Lack experience (Palin) or discipline (Biden) | 2. I’m not going to change. People can judge who I am. I will place my and Barack’s record of change against anyone. Crime bill, VAWA (McCain voted against), intervention inBosnia . Single parent. I know about a family . I am well off, I have a nice house, but (choking up) I understand. People are looking for help, not more of the same. 4. Love McCain, but he’s been no maverick on meaningful thigns. 4 of 5 times for Bush budgets. Voted against SCHIP. Not supporting college funding. War. No maverick in anything that really affects what people talk about around the table. He voted against heating oil support! yeesh! | 1. my experience as an executive willb e put to good use, a governor of a great energy producing state, energy independence, etc. Connection to heartland, a mom, son in the war, paying for tuition, etc. etc. etc. we know what other Americans are going through. That world view with John McCain –America is a nature of exceptionalism, shining city on hill as Reagan said, and unapologetic as a perfect ideal of democracy and tolerance and freedom and equal rights, force for good, rah rah rah! Team! Making a difference! Track record! 3. People are looking for change. Consumate maverick! Me, too! Bipartisan state governor. Look at McCain’s supporters – Lieberman, Giuliani, Romney, etc. These are tumultuous times. Etc. Repeat. Etc. Cannot allow partisanship inWashington , regardless of who’s in charge. |
| Single issue you changed to accommodate changed cirucmstnaces | 1. On judiciary committee. Only thing that mattered was wheathr a presidential nominee was simply not a criminal. But realized that ideology makes a difference. Led charge against Bork. First chair of the judiciary that it’s important to know judicial philosophy. | 2. As mayor and governor passed judgement and didn’t veto, but realized had to work with legislature and needed to move along. Wanted to cut taxes, budget. But no major changes in principle, compromise, bipartisan, but working together, no matter who gets credit. |
| Bipartisanship? How do you change the tone? | 1. I have been able to work across the aisle and work to change my party’s mind and the Republicans. Anecdote. Never question motives, just judgment, and so have been able to work so well with others. Fundamental change that Obama and I will bring. | 2. You appoint people regardless of party affiliation. My family is diverse politically. As long as we all work together. But the policies nad proposals have to speak for themselves. And now here’s a political generalization and attack on the other ticket. |
| Closing statements | 2. This is the most important election in our lives. Eight years, deep hole in economy and foreign credibility. Fundamental change. Progress isn’t based on how well CEOs are doing or how well we cut regulations, but based on whether people can pay for their mortgage or send kid to college, etc. etc. etc. My neighborhood – dignity and respect, belief in self, work hard, you can accomplish anything. That’s why we’re running to make that possible. It’s time forAmerica to get back up, and we are ready, and etc. God bless American and, selfishly for both of us, our troops. | 1. Thanks! Such an honor, and chance to meet you, Joe. Like being able to answer these questions without the MSM filter, just want to talk to the people. [So why haven’t you?] We will fight for American family, we are a great country, etc., proud to be American, need to fight for freedoms. Reagan! Freedom! Need to fight for that freedom every generation. Future without freedom! There is only one man in this rece who has realy fought for you! McCain! |
| After | Thanks! Thanks! Nervous chuckles. |
Post-debate … it was interesting that both families got up there, chatted, shook hands. Very different from McCain’s terse handshake with Obama and immediate shifting to hugging his wife and gladhanding the crowd …
Overall assessment:
The questions were okay. They hit most of the major points — but didn’t hit much on any controversial points (at least viz Palin). I mean, yeah, we got the gay marriage and the global warming questions … but no actual challenges to legitimacy, to experience, to creationism, to abortion …
Palin did okay, presence, glib. Not very strong on policy, more talking points … she didn’t blither too much at too many points. Lots of McCain rah-rah-rah. Some odd points (expanding the power of the VP, putting the US embassy in Jerusalem, facile answers, more than a few fact-checkable items). Shifted subjects at will, rather than reliably answering the questions (which she freely admitted). Didn’t talk much substance, much more rhetorical. And, of course, lacking (or dodging) direct challenges, she was able to let her coaching carry her along.
Good presence — none of that deer-in-the-headlights fumbling from the past interviews. Folksy (sometimes so much I could spew), and that will play well with some. What was funny is that she was willing to criticize Bush when she was being all “mavericky” (thank God that word wasn’t in the drinking game, or else I’d be on my way to the hospital), but whenever Biden did so, she chided him for dwelling on the past (in a Rovean fashion that was immensely irritating).
She talked to the camera, thus the audience.
Never really talked about about the specific differences between McCain and Bush — just that McCain’s a maverick, except for all the things on the war that McCain has always supported and is right about because Petraeus! Surge! Yay!
Nobody challenged her directly for not answering the questions more often than not.
(And for all the discussion of the Maverick Reformer, and despite her promise to Couric, I don’t think we heard any actual, specific, reforms that she was attributing to McCain.)
So if Palin wants to “avoid the MSM filter” and “just talk to the American people,” how is she going to do that? I mean, it’s not like either Gibson or Couric were shouting questions at her rat-a-tat. If that means she just wants to dialog without people following up with further questions — well, yeah, that I can believe.
Biden did a sober, calm, workmanlike job, growing stronger at the end. Policy-wonky, and a traditional debater. Sometimes stumbling over himself to hit all the points he wanted to get. I suspect there will be some fact-checking (less than Palin). He did focus most of his attacks on McCain, as advertised — but I almost wonder in retrospect if that was an error (the attacks on McCain were to be expected, and though reasonable will not change any minds); with Palin doing better than expected, he left that part of the field to her.
He spent too much time looking at the moderator, not the camera.
So, who won? Hrm.
For the Democratic faithful, Palin will not impress any further. Biden was reliably solid, not saying anything particularly goofy.
For the Republican faithful, Palin’s lack of self-destruction will probably be a huge sigh of relief. Some folks will probably be a bit fired up, others will simply be glad she didn’t embarrass the GOP ticket any further.
For the undecided, though … I don’t think this will shift many votes in one direction or another. Those who were worried about Palin will be marginally reassured, but I don’t see this adding any bump to the McCain ticket; at best (and this is non-trivial), she prevented any further losses based on her.
If nothing else, short of future melt-downs, she may have just saved her future political career. But any assessment of this as a “win” is only because it was less of a “loss” than practically every other interaction she’s been shown in since her ghost-written speech at the convention.
Palin’s Bogus Sudan divestment claim
Palin was asked (by Sens. Brownback and Durbin) to support divestment from Sudan while she was still governor-elect. It took her 16 months to support the legislation.
http://swingstateofmind.com/?p=663
Yeah, I’d not heard that particular claim earlier, and the “aha” moment was when it went from “see, here’s what I’ve done” to “well, it will be when the legislation is passed.”