Bizarro story from Colorado Springs:
Springs church, school clash over proselytizing – The Denver Post
COLORADO SPRINGS — Representatives of a local Christian church tried to lure a seventh-grader at Russell Middle School into a church van last week, school district officials said.
As a result, the principal sent students home with a letter to parents asking that they instruct their children not to talk to strangers, and the district has beefed up security around the property at 3825 E. Montebello Drive.
The letter to parents did not identify the church, and the district — acting on the advice of its attorney — has declined to name it. But sources told The Gazette that it was Cornerstone Baptist Church, which is about 2.5 miles from the school and has gotten into trouble in the past for baptizing children without parents’ permission.
Students at nearby Keller and Fremont elementary schools also have been approached by church members, and church proselytizing has been escalating in recent weeks at Russell. Still, officials were unprepared for what happened Thursday, district spokeswoman Elaine Naleski said Friday.
Y’know, people that try to lure kids into vans to take them away, even out of “love,” are generally considered pretty darned dangerous. Police usually get called.
A few weeks ago, officials at the school met with the church’s leader to complain about members coming on school property to preach the Bible, Naleski said. But rather than stop, church members started proselytizing from public sidewalks outside the school.
The school will seek a no-trespassing order if church members resume harassing children on school property, Naleski said. But it will be up to parents to take legal action against the church if their children are approached in public areas outside the school.
A few law suits definitely sound like what is needed.
Assistant pastor Ford Glover said Friday that Cornerstone would have no comment.
The church website’s “doctrinal statement” that “we believe the church is a local, separated body of believers who are sent forth into the world to get people saved, baptized, and added to the church.”
I understand (though disagree with) the church’s concern over folks not being baptized. In the tradition of Jonathan Edwards and all that, some people believe that immortal souls are at stake. To call this sort of activity, though, highly inappropriate, not to mention harmful to the public image of Christianity (and of dubious utility to boot) would be to understate the case.
The Mormons may “baptize” people in absentia, but at least it’s all just on paper. I don’t think God cares what magical list I’m on without my knowing about it (or consenting to it).
Or let me put it this way. I consider myself Christian, I am a regular church-goers and my daughter was baptized as a child. Approach my kid to proselytize your particular faith, and I will more than just raise my voice. And try to lure her into your church to be baptized, and it’s not holy water that’s going to get spilled.
Disgusting.
(via Margie)
The Mormons have gotten themselves into a lot of hot water over the years for doing things like Baptizing Hitler and the rest of the NAZI’s and Baptizing the people murdered by the NAZI’s.
Now, it will be very amusing if this becomes a Freedom of Religion case. I am sure the Church’s Lawyers can and will argue that they have the right to Proselytize on Public Property (the sidewalks around the school at the very least) and being the Springs and the power of such things as Focus on the Family, this could become very interesting.
Well, for that matter, both some Nazis and the victims of Nazis were baptized Lutherans, too. Before or after the fact is of questionable difference.
Regardless, I see it more as bad publicity for (and impoliteness by) the Mormons than as any specific moral no-no. I don’t think it affects any afterlife issues — but, then, I wouldn’t.
Yeah, maybe. But the Springs is also a strong libertarian culture. Poking your nose into the religious upbringing of someone else’s kids is going to rankle a lot of folks, too.
Yeppers, or for me and thinking that once you are dead, nothing else matters (Though, being the grandchild of a Mormon, there is a high probability that I’ll be rebaptized as a Mormon by someone after I am dead). But, to folks that it does matter to, sued the Mormons to force them to stop baptizing victims of the Holocaust (and remove folks like Hitler from the list as well).
Again, this is why it will be so amusing; this, like most 1st Amendment challenges where the whole rule of the Majority with the protection of the Minority concept come to the forefront. Or for that matter all the Anti-Westboro Baptist laws that are currently being challenged around the country. Right now I would say that it’s even money that the courts will back the Church Proselytizing on Public Property (Since the School is not promoting Religion, and it is on Public, not Private Property) or at the very least the Sidewalks (many court cases that I have seen have always backed the sidewalk, parks and streets for Proselytizing).
Which leads to the second part of the amusement on my part and that is if the ACLJ decides to sue the Springs of all places.
Now, I have no idea what the courts will decided on the whole kidnapping thing and it would depend on what argument the Church decides to go with (“Child X Begged us to baptize them right now, and we have it on tape!”), but right now I figure that they’ll not even bother to defend it and move on to the evil government is persecuting us and we are the victims for simply trying to save the poor souls of the lost little lambs.
So, in the end it all comes down to if you are going to have Freedom of Religion, and it is decided that Proselytizing is acceptable and protected behavour**, then there is nothing you can do about it (Unless it makes it to the SCotUS and they rule that you cannont Proselytize children, which would be a *good* thing in my view).
It may be worth looking into really. I know that People in Positions of Authourity in schools can’t Proselytize, share material, pamphets (unless approached by the student, or part of a club, “history or Literature” class, etc.) and what not in the schools, but Students can. Though, I can’t seem to remember a ruling on folks from *outside* the school being able to or not.
**I know this from personal experience from the Flats where the DOE/EEOC ruled that my cube mate was allowed to Proselytize me, and that being an Atheist meant that by definition that I had no belief system and thus not protected.
I would argue that prosetylization between individuals (as opposed to sponsored by an employer or a government entity) is protected speech to the degree that any speech is, including regaling someone with tales about “the game over the weekend” or the joys of Sarah Palin. The only restrictions would have to do with whether it’s interfering with job duties.
Of course, I have door to my office.
~wishes he had a door to his office~
Then again, my view on Proseltyzing in general.