We’ve slowly but surely been paying off the Saturn (a ’95 SC2), so that I’m in a new car come next winter (since the Saturn behaves on snow and ice with only slighly less control than a saucer sled). Since I’ll probably be doing more nattering on the subject, I’ve created a Cars category here on my blog, to collect these priceless thoughts. Try not to get too excited …
Here are the criteria we’re looking for. (I think Margie and I have pretty much agreed on these. On the one hand, it’s the car I’m going to be driving most of the time. On the other hand, Margie will be driving it sometimes, and definitely has a stake in what we get. We’ve discussed it on and off, but have never come up with the definitive list. Here’s a start.)
- A comfortable and economical commute car. I put 40-50 miles on it per day, so good gas mileage and maintenance records are important.
- Capable of holding four adults for short (local) distances. Capable of holding two adults and 1-2 kids for longer distances.
- Good all-weather handling, ABS, all-wheel drive or some sort of traction control.
- Sporty and zippy, handling and performance-wise.
- Not much (if any) longer or wider than my current Saturn SC2. The margin for error (and access to the fridges) in the garage are pretty slender.
- Something about the price we paid for the van, i.e., not increasing our monthly payments. Since that’s currently for the van, that provides a little leeway for something nicer in a car. Say, under $30k.
On the list of nice-tos …
- It would be convenient if there were a dealership close to home, or to either of our offices. It would make service calls a lot more convenient.
- Disc-changer. Hell, a CD player would be nice, but is assumed.
- Sun/moon roof. If I can’t have a convertable (which would be silly in this clime) …
- Decent cargo capacity. (I am not averse to a hatch-back.)
- Not a Boring, Dull, Gosh-I’m-Getting-Old Sedan. (That’s one of my criteria.)
My “catching my eye” list of cars is varied. I like the VW Passat. I like most of the Audi line (which are, by and large, outside the price range, not unlike Volvos, another eye-catcher). I like the MINI Cooper. There are some Subaru models I like. Like I said, all over the board.
Another consideration will be the purchase vector. When we bought the van, we went through the Costco fleet sales process, which was inexpensive and painless. I despise bartering down prices, absolutely despise it. So what’s available that way may have an influence.
The subject’s been brought up about used vehicles. By and large, I’m inclined to shy away from a car whose previous treatment I’m not aware of, even if it comes with all the service guarantees. Further, while I’m not likely to be buying something with all the top-end bells ‘n’ whistles, I’d rather have something that has the latest tech I’m willing to buy.
Last consideration is transmission. I like manual. I really do. I like the control.
On the other hand, hands-free shifting has much to recommend it. And from what I read, manual transmission is on the way out, except for sports cars …
So. Here we go …
For the record, the pertinent ’95 SC2 specs are:
Length: 173.2 in.
Width: 67.5 in.
Cargo: 10.9 cu-ft.
Front Head Room: 37.5 in.
Front Leg Room: 42.6 in. max.
Rear Head Room: 35.0 in.
Rear Leg Room: 26.5 in. min.
Engine: 1.9L DOHC, 124hp, 25/35 mpg. (I got around 29)
Well, I can recommend the Prius (prius.toyota.com) from personal experience. And the 2004 model, coming out soon, is moving to a more hatchback-like design that will increase cargo space, which is the only area where mine falls a bit short.
It’s a bit squat on the front end, but it could carry 4 (I’ve done so) despite the short overall body length. And the milage is, of course, quite strong (I’ve averaged 44.6 mpg in the 14 months since purchase).
Wow. I’ve been a bit reluctant to get into the new hybrid technologies. The folks who’ve have such vehicles so far have been very happy with them, but I’m still concerned that the tech is changing too quickly for my comfort.
I figure whatever car I get, I’m going to have for about 6+ years (through its loan payoff, and the other car’s replacement’s, too), so I want something that has a relatively stable track record.
Still, I might do some test drives …
Toyota is going to a “2nd generation” hybrid design with the 2004 model (and also with a Lexus later this year)… but they have enough confidence in the design that they’ve publicly dedicated the company to be all-hybrid in the near future (can’t recall if it was by 2007 or within 7 years). That’s quite a bit of confidence, but they do have 4 years of experience with the base design now.
And they warrenty the hybrid/electronic part out the wazoo, just to reassure people like you (and me!) that it won’t give out in 5 years or, if it does, that they’ll be there to fix/replace it.
Also…
There are tax rebates/deductions for buying hybred cars.
Well, it’s worth a test drive, at least. And, as a former Honda owner, I do have a degree of confidence in their work.
On the other hand (and looking at a bit more gas-consuming of a vehicle, though not ridiculously so), the Subaru Forester doesn’t look half-bad, spec-wise.
Not at all. And Julia and Lou are quite happy with their Matrix (and the back seat isn’t all that bad), on the more cargo friendly side.
(and yes, the tax deduction is real and not to be ignored… got it this year myself. essentially gives back $800-$1000 of the car price.)
Mmmm. Manual.
Automatics are dogs when you need to get around someone on the highway, or need to zip up the ramp to merge.
This last escort wagon will be the last automatic I own. I bought it when I had a knee injury and the clutch was a problem.
Metro Detroit area dealers (Ford and Chevy, anyway) nearly always have a low-end stick or two on the lot. Might be a regional phenomenom. Don’t let a sales guy tell you that you can’t order one.
Better gas mileage!
(‘course, I also have driven in rush hour traffic with both and admit an automatic causes less headaches in the stop-and-go kind of traffic)
I like the compression I get with a manual, even in stop-n-go.
I love my 1999 Passat with a passion. Built like a tank, smooth, comfortable, perfect size for me. Plus it doesn’t look just like every other car on the road. Expensive, but I think they hold their value well. You can get 4-motion 4WD for the traction you need. Beautiful car. I actually like my year’s model better than the newer ones, which I think have too much chrome and fussy details.
I was going to mention the Matrix as well — there’s a few versions of them I really like.
The subaru’s are pretty much all in the price range and certainly roomy/good in snow.
As much as I love the Mini (and you know I do), I can’t recommend it to you. The “two adults, 2 kids for longer distances” just isn’t there if you need ANY kind of luggage — I’ll be the first to point out it has FIVE count-it FIVE feet of cargo space, which is basically like saying none-at-all.
Will *I* still get one? Heck yes. 🙂
I am certainly determined — for the purpose of fairness, mind you — to test drive a Mini. Heh.
I’ll have to give the Matrix a whirl, too.
I need to go back and look again, but the Passat stats I saw had it coming in a foot longer than the Saturn, which is a definite minus. (The Forester, OTOH, is just an inch or two longer). Still, worth looking at.
I need to plan a “car shopping day” soon. Er, soon in July.
Dave…
Test drove the Forester…D-O-G….WOOF.
It can barely get out of it’s own way. Very under powered. If you are going to get a Subaru take the hit and go for the 3.0 Outback. A great ride. My mom’s will do 70, loaded to the gills, up floyd hill and the tunnel approaches. Great in town and good gas mileage.
Stats/Specs:
Wheelbase/Length 104.3/187.4
Width/Height 68.7/63.3
Track: front/rear 57.9/57.7
Minimum Road Clearance (at curb weight) 7.9
Headroom: front/rear 38.5/37.2
Legroom: front/rear 43.3/34.3
Shoulder room: front/rear 53.9/53.6
Curb Weight (lbs.) 3715
EPA Interior Volume (cubic feet) 95.9
EPA Cargo Volume: Rear Seat Up (cubic feet) 34.3
EPA Cargo Volume: Rear Seat Down-SAE (cubic feet) 68.6
Maximum Towing Capacity (lbs.)* (Class One) 2400
Hmmm. The Forester, as reviewed, sounded pretty peppy. I’ll try the Outback, too. I know of other folks who like them.
I drove a 96 Passat for a number of years, and had to trade it in. The thing had…well, a lot of problems. In the 6 years I had it I had to: Replace both front doors, the passenger one twice (The locking mechanism failed), replace the water pump twice, the clutch once (all be it at 95,000 miles), replace most of the oil caps in the car, and found that general maintenace was very pricey. The tires, while they gave great traction and the performance was fun, were quite expensive. I don’t know if they’ve fixed it, but the size is not a common one, and the tires would usually cost about $160 each. Made replacing them a pricey thing to do.
I now own a Nissan Sentra, and am enjoying the good gas mileage and the cheaper parts/labor.
I had a VW Jetta back in the late 80s/early 90s, that I was very pleased with, though even at that time, Consumer Reports was claiming various problems with them. We’ll have to see.
The only car of yours I remember is “Miniver Cheevy.” That was back when I was driving the “Green Goblin.”
Sometimes I worry about us.
Oh, well. Just don’t drive like my brother!
For the record, “Miniver Cheevy” (“child of scorn”) was my old ’71 VW Super Beetle (license 625 CHV).
The “Green Goblin” was Scott’s old green AMC Gremlin.
Hmmm…
Dave’s cool rating is going way up. Was it a black plate?
Scott’s on the other hand, is dipping ever so slightly.
My mom had a Gremlin…Levi Edition…Bad idea. The interior was done in a Levi denim motif, including buttons and rivets. Nothing like getting into a car with bare legs on 90°+ day and getting a button brand on the back of Your leg.
Bad idea.
My VW (which was a most excellent first car, aside from its tendency to stall when it got rainy) was, alas, a blue plate, as both the coding and the year indicate.
Hmmmm. It had a sun roof, too.
I can definitely recommend the Matrix, as mentioned above. We love our little car. It has 4 wheel drive (all wheel drive) with the higher end models, plus you can get a moon/sun roof as well. 6 disc cd changer is an option; since ours was used it has the one CD player plus the cassette, but since we both have iPods that’s not a huge issue for us anymore.
There isn’t a TON of cargo space if there are four adults. It’s NOT a wagon, more like a mini-wagon. But the back seat splits 60-40 (or 80-20? I forget) for extra cargo room.
Definitely take it for a drive and see if you like it.
Will do.
Why not relive your youth and test drive one of the new Beetles? I’ve ridden in a 2001 that had a turbo diesel and it was very comfortable. The new turbo diesels are not the dogs that they were in the not to distant past. An added bonus is it gets, at least according to the literature, 42/49 mileage.
All model choices seem on the wise side (even the Mini). Don’t forget to try the Ponitac Vibe, too. It’s a Matrix clone and you might be able to save a little dough since it doesn’t have the pretigious Toyota name (who ever thought I’d write a statement like that 20 years ago).
Something to consider however – as much as I like my PT Cruiser, I think the local Chrysler dealerships suck! (or maybe its all local American car delearships) They don’t stay open late, they don’t make appointments except for regular maintanence (but not oil changes, and the oil change bay closes for lunch), and they are not open on Sat or Sun. Toyota, on the other hand, has done a lot for me while I have owned two of their cars, including free loaner cars, half-hour oil changes at any time no appt. necessary, being open 7 days a week, etc.
A car is only as good as the organization that services it.
Worth considering, certainly. I’ve been pretty happy with the service at our local Toyota dealerships (and their convenience, too).
We have a 2000 Passat. We love it. When the lease is up in March, our plan is to trade it in and actually buy a new one with 4-Motion. Consumer Reports did a deal about the Audi in comparison to the Passat, and basically said that the Passat was a better car for less money.
The Passat just has a lot of extras that we couldn’t find in any other car, and we test drove EVERY SINGLE car in the class….at which point, I told Rick to pick one that wasn’t American. YMMV.
Heh. She said, “YMMV,” in a post about cars. Heh.
Anyway … wonder if I can talk Margie into some weekend car browsing …
We considered the PT Cruiser, but the mileage was just awful for a car its size. My mother-in-law has one and it’s really a great little car, but obviously too heavy or something to get that low mileage.
If Lou wasn’t driving so much every day, it would have moved up higher on the list.
Went by a Subaru dealership on the way home yesterday. Was not initially impressed by either the Forester or the Outback. Did think the Baja was cute, though. Still want to go back with Margie.
Stopped by the Toyota dealership adjoining. Was very impressed by the Matrix — though I’m still unclear on whether the traction/ABS/WD combos I want are available. Less impressed by the Rav4, which I looked at simply because I was there.
Need to hit a VW and BMW (Mini) dealership RSN.
re: PT Cruiser mileage. Though the numbers are not as good as some in its class (like the Matrix), my car (non turbo) has outperformed the mpg specs since the day I took it home. On the freeway I regularly get 25 mpg, which is more than I am supposed to expect.
Not sure if you care or not, but I just returned from a GM presentation. The Saturn VUE is being released with a hybrid power train – two electric motors to propel the vehicle at slow speeds and a small displacement 4 cylinder for higher speeds and loads. There are also several other GM cars, and one truck, in the FlewPower line. These are the vehicles that turn off the engine while at 13 MPH or lower speeds. A battery gang is used to power accessories while the engine is off. I believe all are considered for EPAC credits.
Interesting. The VUE has been recommended to me by a few folks. I’m still hinky about the hybrids, though. I’ll have to give it a try.
I own a 97′ Outback 2.5 and would’t be without it here in the State of Washington. We have some of the most danderous weather there is due to the fact that you can go from rain,to black ice, to snow in less than a couple of miles in winter. The power from stop to 60 is very good and mileage on the highway is still 27 to 28. I’ve been hauling gasoline for 21 years and you rarely see a Subaru broke down and never stuck in heavy weather. In fact you rarely see chains on them in the snow.
That’s good to hear, thanks.
I am driving my second Saturn since 1993 and am sold on their performance. I have had VERY few problems with either car. I am looking at replacing my 1998 SL next year (my neice is needing a reliable car) and I am very anxious to see the hybred VUE. Saturn of Louisville gives me GREAT service and I would not consider buying another car from any other dealership. The VUE is a nice looking vehicle and when the hybred provides the gas mileage I have heard it will, I WILL be driving one!
I’m still of the same thought on hybrids — but acknowledge that, were this another year or two in the future, I’d be giving them much more attention.
Have 03 Passat GS. 6 cylinder..manual. Refined and quiet engine and trans. WIDE POWER BAND. Good quality interior and of course the guages are a pleasure.Leather, Moonroof and airbags all around. Monsoon stereo (better than average). $26,500
25,000 miles and no problems….I recommend the car.
Well, I’m very happy with my Subaru Impreza WRX, but the Passat continues to gets passionate support from others, too.