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Don’t know much about history

Yet another state bill going through another state legislature to hang the Ten Commandments in every classroom. This one, which has cleared a Senate committee in South Carolina, at least…

Yet another state bill going through another state legislature to hang the Ten Commandments in every classroom.

This one, which has cleared a Senate committee in South Carolina, at least uses the excuse of trying present historical documents of some assumed import in the legal foundation of the US. Thus, it also mandates hanging of the Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution (sans the Bill of Rights, one would assume), and the Magna Carta.

State Rep. Lewis Vaughn, R-Greer, chairman of the Greenville County Legislative Delegation, said he strongly supports the display of the Ten Commandments, the Declaration of Independence and the U. S. Constitution in schools.
“I don’t know about including the Magna Carta because that is English, and I think we should keep it American,” Vaughn said.

Yeeeaaaah … like that All-American document, the Ten Commandments.

“We’ve taken an important first step toward improving character education in South Carolina schools,” said Sen. John Hawkins, R-Spartanburg, the bill’s sponsor. […] Hawkins said his proposal would survive a constitutional challenge by portraying the Ten Commandments in a historical perspective.
“They say you can’t teach religion, but you can teach about religion,” Hawkins said. “It’s impossible to teach about the history of Western law unless you discuss the Ten Commandments.”

Really? Actually, I’d be very interested in seeing something scholarly on the influence of the Ten Commandments on US law.

Doing some quick analysis (these are all from Exodus 20, v2ff, KJV — other translations, and other instances of the Decalogue in the OT, have some differences in phrasing — plus the other instances where the Decalogue is recounted in the OT, and, of course, different groupings in different faiths) …

I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

While there seems to be plenty of debate about the devoutness or theological beliefs of the Founding Fathers, I don’t believe that US law is founded on or has demonstrated (particularly given the First Amendment) this particular commandment.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

I’m unaware of anything in US law that this commandment applies to.

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

This has played a role in obscenity laws, I suppose.

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Government offices are usually closed on Sunday. Does that count? I guess so.

Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Is there a particular unique aspect to this commandment that has played a role in US or Western jurisprudence? I’d welcome examples.

Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

All of these are (or have been) laws in US. Were they derived from the Decalogue? What did Roman Law have to say about murder? Or Sumerian? Or Egyptian? What about theft? These four — particularly the admonitions against theft and murder — are common in societies both within and outside the Christian world. I do not think you can argue that the Decalogue is the reason why we have laws against murder on the books in the US.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

I’m not aware of any law on the books now, or in the past (save, perhaps, some fringe communities during the settlement of New England) that tried to enforce this admonition.

So, with what are we left? Not much. The principles and dictates of the Ten Commandments, while strong religious admonitions, do not seem to have made, to my eye, much of an impact on US law.

So why post them up with other documents that have (including that damn furriner document, the Magna Whatsis)? Surely not as an end run around the prohibition of establishment of religion, right?

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5 thoughts on “Don’t know much about history”

  1. I usually avoid listening to any media that might pummel me with soundbites of our ‘elected’ officials mouthing off… but I did chance to hear our boy Bush speaking on how much he supports the acts of charity put forth by the religious community – he never used the word ‘christian’ but something in the word he used turned my gut every time he said it.

    I wish I could remember the exact phrasing…

    After 9-11, when everyone was waving flags to show their shock and grief, someone in our sub went around and (illegally) put a flyer in the mailbox of every house that did not have a flag in evidence. In it, they said how dissappointed they were in the ‘poor showing’ of our subdivision. (I was not aware that grief was a float in a parade.) And of course, they ended the letter with a note saying that at the very least we should post a sign that said ‘In God We Trust.” I was livid. I have a full-sized plotter, and my response to that jibe was to post the quote from the Statue of Liberty in text as large as I could make it across the front windows of my house.

    After that, I got the resounding sound of crickets…

    “Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”

    Emma Lazarus (1849-1887), inscription on the Statue of Liberty

    Can you expect history to be known from people who have such a narrow spiritual and world view that they can’t concieve that God might have created the world as it is… Evolution and all???

    sorry… major rant… hope it was at least mildly entertaining…

  2. Good comment, and not that huge of a rant. I liked the turn of phrase about grief (or patriotism, for that matter) being a float in a parade.

    I’ve no problem with the Prez using the bully pulpit to encourage folks to donate to the charities of their choice, or noting that many charities have done fine work in the days since 9-11. But Dubya, of course, supports federal funding provided to “qualifying” charities — opening a can of church-state worms about what would qualify a charity (and the inescapable conclusion that it would entail being comfortably mainstream, and most likely Christian).

    As to the knowledge of history (let alone geology and biology) of certain of our legislators … the less said, the better.

  3. “This book [speaking of the bible] is the secret of
    England’s greatness.” Queen, Victoria Windsor

    “My daily advisor and comfort is the impregnable rock
    of the Holy Scriptures.” Gladstone, architech of
    American law

    “You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of
    life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ.
    These will make you a greater and happier people than
    you are. Congress will do every thing they can to
    assist you in this intention.” a message to the
    Native American Indians, May, 12th, 1779 by, George
    Washington, 1st US President

    “Religion and virtue are the only foundations, not
    only of republicanism and of all free government, but
    of social felicity under all governments and in all
    the combinations of human society.” John Adams, 2nd
    US President

    “I have always said, and will always say, that the
    studious perusal of the sacred volume will make us
    better citizens, better husbands, and better fathers.”
    Thomas Jefferson, 3rd US President, 1st Washington
    D.C. school board president

    “Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil
    Society, he must be considered as a subject of the
    Governor of the Universe… Religion… is the basis
    and foundation of government.” James Madison, 4th US
    President, chief architect of the Constitution

    “The Declaration of Independence first organized the
    social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer’s
    mission upon earth and laid the corner stone of human
    government upon the first precepts of Christianity.”
    John Quincy Adams, 6th US President

    “The bible is the rock on which our Republic rest.”
    Andrew Jackson, 7th US President

    “I am profitably engaged in reading the Bible. Take
    all of this upon reason that you can, and balance on
    faith, and you will live and die a better man.”
    Abraham Lincoln, 16th US President

    “I am sorry for the men who do not read the Bible
    daily. I wonder why they deprive themselves of the
    strength and the pleasure. I should be afraid to go
    forward if I did not believe that there lay at the
    foundation of all schooling and all our thought this
    imcomparable and unimpeachable Word of God.” Woodrow
    Wilson, 28th US President

    “Almost every man who has by his life work added to
    the sum of human achievements of which the race is
    proud – has based his life work largely upon the
    teachings of the Bible.” Theodore Roosevelt, 32nd US
    President

    “Religion is the only solid basis of good morals;
    therefore, education should teach the precepts of
    religion, and the duties of man towards God.”
    Gouveneur Morris, scribe / handwriter of the
    Constitution

    “Whoever is an avowed enemy of God, I scuple not to
    call him an enemy to this country.” John
    Whitherspoon, Continental Congress, Declaration of
    Independence

    “Providence has given to our people the choice of
    their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the
    privelege and interest of our Christian Nation to
    select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” John
    Jay, 1st Supreme Court Justice

    “It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often
    that this great nation was founded, not by
    religionist, but by Christians, not on religions but
    on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this reason
    peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum,
    prosperity and freedom of worship here.” Patrick
    Henry, Continental Congress

    “…convincing proofs I see… that God governs in the
    affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the
    ground without His notice, is it probable that an
    empire can rise without His aid?” Benjamin Franklin,
    Constitutional Convention,

    “Of all the dipositions and habits which lead to
    political prosperity, religion and morality are
    indispensable supports… . Reason and experience
    both forbid us to expect that national morality can
    prevail in exclusion of religious principles.”
    Alexander Hamiltion, 1st Secretary of Treasurer

    “The moral principles and precepts contained in the
    Scriptures ought to form the basis of all our civil
    constitutions and laws… . All the miseries and
    evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition,
    injustice, opppression, slavery, and war, proceed from
    their despising or neglecting the precepts contained
    in the Bible.” Noah Webster, American Revolutionist,
    Constitutional Convention, Dictionary

    “There is not a community which cannot be purified,
    redeemed and improved by a better knowledge and larger
    application of the Bible to daily life.” W.J. Bryan,
    Democratic Orator and statesman, ran three times for
    presidency and failed, nicknamed the Commoner

    “I suspect that the future progress of the human race
    will be determined by the circulation of the Bible.”
    Dr. R.A. Millikan, 1923 Nobel prize winner in physics

    “Our ways; through a Christian President, finally
    outlawed slavery in America with the world soon
    following its lead. The great freedoms we enjoy are
    the direct result of the Christian faith of our
    predecessors. No great civilization or religion from
    the world did it; it was our Christian Forefathers and
    Foremothers and their open faith in God through the
    Jesus Christ that did.”
    William M. Cooper
    Kingsville, TX
    coopr2000@yahoo.com
    http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/8857

  4. Yes, and Jefferson found “studious perusal” of the Bible so valuable that he created his own version of it, studiously cutting out the miracles of Jesus’ ministry as non-historical.

    “And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?” I would submit to Dr. Franklin Hitler’s Reich, Soviet Russia, Communist China, and, in fact, the vast majority of empires to have dotted the planet.

    I believe there is value in faith, in religious study, in belief in a higher power, and in my own spiritual pursuits. I don’t have the hubris, though, to assume that my path is the path everyone else should be taking in order to be good citizens or have a healthy nation.

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