1. Margie is a Southwest frequent flyer. In fact, she's 4 points from making "A-list", the automatic "you always get a great seat queue" status, due to her regular travel back to the corporate mothership in California this past year.
2. Margie booked round-trip tickets for this weekend's journey from Denver to Orange County and back for herself, me, and Kay. Knowing she was only 4 points from A-list, she only booked "Early Bird" (get automatically checked in, thus get a better spot in the seating queue) for Kay and me on the flight back. She reasonably figured figured after the initial leg out here, she'd be A-list.
3. After all this happened, I ended up with business travel that meant canceling my Southwest flight here and (sigh) home today.
4. Margie checked by phone yesterday, to confirm her A-list/early check in status. Hey-presto, it turns out that Southwest only updates the A-list status after an entire (round) trip is booked. Oops! (Okay, I understand enough about systems and processes to understand how that might be the case — it's inefficient, even slightly counter-intuitive, but I understand it.) But, no worries, she was assured — she had Early Bird status on her flight. (This was less than 24 hours before the flight, so the agent telling her this should, you'd think, be able to tell about her check-in status, but that communication didn't come across.) So Margie, assured that she'd have an early seat queue alongside Kay, didn't worry.
5. Fast forward to this afternoon. While Margie's getting packed, I checked on her check-in. And, lo and behold, Kay is checked in at seat queue A60 (and is flagged as Early Bird), and Margie (once I go through the process) shows as C20 (and is not flagged as Early Bird).
6. As we're driving to the airport, Margie calls Southwest to explain the situation and ream them a new one. The agent really wants to focus on explaining about the A-list thing, but Margie keeps his attention on the whole Early Bird / Not Early Bird thing. "Oh, but you show as Early Bird," she's told. She demurs, noting that she checked in as C20 and not flagged as Early Bird. The agent's response is largely, "Huh," but he claims he can't do anything, but offers her a customer service number to complain to. Which, which Margie presses, he admits isn't being manned right now. Margie demands to speak to his supervisor.
7. Same song, second verse. She's now been told multiple times that she has Early Bird, and yet there she is with a seating queue assignment, without Early Bird, of C20. The supervisor says there's nothing he can do and, upon being pressed, says there's nothing anyone can do. The supervisor does suggest that Kay can hold onto a seat for Margie; Margie notes that's against formal Southwest policy (no seat holding), but apparently that's what will have to happen.
And then we're at the airport. And Margie's not a happy camper.
Note that all of this was done to someone who has flown so much with Southwest this past year that she'll be A-list once she hits the ground in Denver (and all the systems catch up). But apparently nobody in Southwest is empowered to do anything to resolve what's clearly a mess-up on their part (apparently her reservation shows as having Early Bird, but it didn't trigger and it doesn't show when we look at her check-in docs), and the only people she can complain to … aren't working until Monday.
So that qualifies, in my mind, as a customer service fail.
Well played, Southwest — so much for all that good word-of-mouth Margie's been giving you the past couple of years. So what are you going to do to demonstrate this is not only an anomaly, but that you actually are interested in what a customer thinks about you? #southwest #southwestairlines #southwestfail
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Whereas what happened after is certainly on Southwest, the “we post your points after you fly” is something I’ve known for quite a while. Most airline perks require you to complete your travel to get the perk. With as many people who spend their days just trying to gain the system, I can’t blame them for that.
The other- they better make amends!
@Mary – But it’s not just “we post your points after you fly” but “we post your points after you fly the entire round trip.” But, again, that wasn’t the main point.
Learned this back in April…. Welcome to the club! Southwest is still best domestic option period….
Yes, a list preferred here with over 140,000 that I need to blow….
Southwest Airlines is, in the usual scheme of things, better than many of the alternatives we have going out of Denver (United epitomizes the Big Airline mindset, while Frontier has gone from being customer-oriented to discounts-and-fees-oriented). Given a choice, Southwest has been where we've spent our money, counting on a decent experience along with decent value.
This sort of thing makes me question that strategy.
southwest is the bvest
]
We learned the same thing when we made it to FL this past August. However, I've flown every airline. Won't fly anything but Southwest because they really do a good job. Continental was horrible! Treated me like dirt. American was hateful, and down right mean. Others haven't proven to be any better. So, these past 4 years I've totally flew Southwest. If at all possible, I took them over anyone. Their deals are the best. Sadly had to learn (the hard way) I wouldn't A-list until the flight back from FL. That was ok with me though. They did not give us the things we expected going down. However, it was all worth it on the way back. I hope they can make this good with her on Monday. Even though it should have been done right then and there. #southwest
Sorry mate, have to say a touch of ‘First World Problems’ here.
When the system was designed the programmers obviously weren’t thinking of this happening, and getting the person who does the job to tell you what the process is, as opposed to what they think they do is two separate things (that goes for anything where you need a description, not just computer programmes).
The poor buggers at customer service were probably trying to get the message through, but the communication system wasn’t designed to do that.
@LH – I have to confess, the choruses of “first world problem” here has been remarkable. I mean, I didn’t call for a federal investigation, or threaten to sue, or rend my clothes, or write my Congressman, or declare war. We had a crappy customer experience and we bitched about it, which makes up about 25% of the Internet.
And, that said, the _process_ of the whole A-List booking is incidental (or at most, preliminary) to the tale. Southwest personnel told us something wrong on at least two occasions (that Margie had EarlyBird status), the result of which was an unsatisfactory experience. End of story, unless SW does something to make good in some fashion — or if someone from SW sees this and says, “Huh, wonder why the computer showed that — maybe we better fix it.”
+Dave Hill …just for future reference, and this is with any airline. The people you were talking to on the phone was reservations, and they really don't have much manipulation power. Once boarding passes are issued, they cant be retracted and reissued over the phone, nor can anyone be just slotted in when boarding passes are already issued. The thing to do in cases like that is to bring it up at the airport, where they can allow her to board early; they are the ones that can make exceptions. Unfortunately, Southwest Airlines does use computers which are subject to errors, but it is something that can be fixed with the right people. As far as the a-list is concerned; every airline requires travel to be completed before those points are counted and status is updated…purchases alone do not qualify because the money doesn't transfer to SWA usable bank accounts until travel is completed. Unused funds are held until flown, or for one year. Do call Customer Relations Monday, and they will make things right, they want to, but please do it with a reasonable mind, and not so defensive. Being calm and listening will get you more. Remember, it is another human on the other end, and strong emotions can push them away.
I second dat
Quit your bitching, best airline in the country.
I have flown Southwest aka Air Tran. It is a little confusing when you book your flight with SouthWest and receive tickets printed for AirTran.I receive Emails all the time in reference to double and triple bonus points if you travel within a certain time frame.How are the points calculated when you want to purchase a ticket or tickets?Is there anyone in customer service able to explain?Thanks A South West Flyer!
+Michelle Ralls And I think that's the main issue here. As I said, that the A-list thing was delayed until the overall trip was completed was okay. That she was told by multiple people that she had Early Bird status, which turned out not to be the case, and that there was nothing to make it right in any fashion, was where they failed.
+Dillard Martin Yes, the A-list thing was procedurally reasonable (or not wildly unreasonable), and was not something we expected them to fix. In many ways, though that was the root of the issue, it was also a distraction. The Early Bird thing was more problematic, and I don't believe that there was no way, in the scheme of things, for them to not figure out a way to resolve it.
Your point of raising it with the folks at the airport is a good one. If nothing else, they could have provided her with an early boarding card.
I agree that follow-up on Monday is appropriate, and doing so in a calm, firm, but non-badgering fashion is almost always the way to deal with customer service folks
+Curtis Smith "Don't complain about that fly in your soup, this is still a better restaurant than the McDonald's down the street." Um, okay.
My wife informs me that my 13yo daughter was able to hold a seat next to her just fine and that they arrived home without any further problems.
Waaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh
+jay kirschner Your point?
Margie needs to relax.
my point is that folks who are posting on issues like the vagaries of what airline perquisite award issues include or disinclude may have a bit too much time on his or her hands.
so if you are asking what the purpose of my point was, perhaps now you have a better idea.
+Mike Canfield Yes, she does. Your point?
+jay kirschner In the cosmic scheme of things, or in terms of profound issues of justice, human life, or great values, yes, this is a relatively trivial thing. I think everyone involved would agree.
On the other hand, as a circumstance in one person (or a few people's) life that causes stress, that violates expectations, or that just feels wrong, it's quite worthwhile to bitch about.
If your waiter walked to your table and spat in your soup, well, heck, worse comes to worse, you're out a bowl of soup, or even the cost thereof. That doesn't mean it's not worth complaining to the manager, or to other potential customers.
Or, put another way, folks who are commenting to complain about what people get upset about probably have too much time on their hands, too.
Margie need to biy her own plane.
Southwest is fine as long as everything goes according to plan. Any bump along the way and customer-service is at best worthless but usually hovers around infuriating.
+metal gear Yeah, unfortunately, we're not quite in that percentile.
First, this has got to be the epitome of a First World Problem.
Second, Margie wasn't the only person getting on that plane. Everyone else getting on was assigned a boarding pass and you can't simply re-issue everyone else a boarding pass so that Margie can cut in line. The fact that she assumed she was going to be instant A-List without bothering to check isn't the airline's fault. I have been A-List Preferred with a Companion pass for the last 4 years, and if my flight gets re-booked within 24-hours (after boarding passes have been issued) I stand in the back of the line with everyone else (the back of the A line, anyway). Even if I had been holding an A-1 boarding pass on the previous flight.
So, yes, as noted, #FirstWorldProblem , +Gerald Hines. Certainly nothing worth going to war about, or court about, or hurling oneself off a cliff over. If those are the only things one is allowed to complain about, well, then, allow me to retract the complaint, and complements on your ability to shoulder anything short of a profound moral or civil dilemma before you feel the need to complain about it on the Internet (aside from complaining about what other folks complain about).
The A-list thing is, as noted, a red herring, primarily for background, understood and acknowledged and, whelp, live and learn. The "Don't worry, you're on Early Bird" when that's not the case is not just a matter of grin and bear it, but a more on of "So why are you getting this wrong, repeatedly, and why should I bear the burden of your doing so?"
FWIW, I agree that if would be unreasonable to change everyone's boarding number. Fine. So what is to be done with Southwest's own system and agents have erroneously led to someone ending up in the C-queue rather than the A-queue they should have been on had the correct information been provided? Is it just a matter of, "Well, hey, no starving children were eaten by sharks, so no cause for complaint"? Is there nothing Southwest can do (or even offer to do) at the time to address this?
Yeah, no puppies had their heads bitten off, no children starved to death from malnutrition, and no grotesque violation of human rights occurred. Fine. If that's the criterion for offering complaints, I'm great with that. When Southwest does anything that doesn't result in similarly awful results, I'll be sure and comfort people by noting that no crippled baby whales were further harmed by the airlines actions today.
Even with early bird, some folks still end up in the B section… When every one buys it on a flight no one ends up being special. But to reference what was said earlier, bringing it up to a supervisor at the airport would be the best way to resolve the issue. Southwest gives front line employees a lot of power to do what's right for the Customer. I'm really sorry that this was so troubling, but Southwest does want to make things right when a Customer has a bad experience. I hope they find a way to do that for you.
business select are allowed to save seats, fyi
You Southwest fliers need to get a life…bitching about boarding queus???
Yeah, +Rex Jackson, we should bitch about … um … sports? Wow, hated to see the Broncos lose to Indy, what's with that?
+Sanura Moja Interestingly, on consideration, neither of the folks Margie talked with on the phone offered that as a suggestion. But, as noted above, I agree it makes a lot of sense.
found this really interesting. i always fly southwest when in the USA as I have found them to be the most reliable and the cheapest as well as the friendliest…. hope they find a way to make it right!
By and large, +selina jackson, that's been our experience, which made this particular fumble more maddening.
+Dave Hill
Glad to hear that everything turned out ok.
Just being me my adult beverages , I will sit on the floor.
I can see why you're ticked – but i'm A Preferred and I fly with people who aren't all the time. You either board early and save them a seat or just have them board with you. The agent couldn't care less if a c is boarding with the a group. I've seen it happen 25+ times. Bottom line – If this is all you have to complain about on the internet – your life is going pretty well. They're still the best airline in the US by a long shot.
+Jeremy Webber I've been turned back by a gate agent who walked halfway to the plane just to ensure I boarded in the proper order. You'd think he should have been more interested in getting the (delayed) flight boarded.
On a side note, it seems Southwest is not active on G+. Maybe their social media team thinks it's too much work to engage in real conversations.
Eight years ago, I was in the middle of a multi-leg itinerary on US Air and they recognized in the middle that I had obtained tiered status, upgrading me on the rest of the flights. It is interesting that SW isn't doing the same. Maybe the problem is that it would cost them money up front. They would surely gain it back through loyalty.
+Dave Hill Question is…"when" did she purchase the early bird? Was it within 36 hours of her flight? If it was the early bird ONLY applies to the return trip, for it needs 36 hrs prior to check in the A-listers first, then the early birds. Everyone else is 24 hrs prior. Have her check her receipt..was she only charged for the early bird once?
The only thing I got out of your diatribe is that " Margie is not a happy camper". My question is why you're spending hours writing this non-sencical dribble when it seems Margie is just going on with her life.
Complaining is what the internet is for, I just think the rant is disproportional to the actual issue. I've just flown too many miles on Southwest (I actually earned my Companion Pass for next year in September this year), and had people go out of their way for me too many times to rant over what looks like a misunderstanding.
I was at a college football game at Montana this weekend and one of the other parents there was at the game when his son was actually back home nursing an injury. Why was he there? Primarily because he had booked a long time ago on another airline using points and they were going to charge him $150 worth of points just to refund his trip. One of the other parents there said she had done the same thing recently.
On Southwest, the points just go back into your account. No drama. In fact, I usually book a flight now when there's just a hint I may need to travel just so I get the lowest fare. And if my wife is traveling on my Companion Pass with me and there's a chance I may not be able to make the trip, I book her a separate reservation with points just in case I need to cancel mine. Because I know I can just get the points back, and Southwest doesn't care that I book her two reservations on the same flight.
My wife and I are spending the fall chasing our son all over the western US for football at the rate of $10/trip. No restrictions, no blackout dates, no seat by the bathroom. Southwest isn't perfect, but they ain't bad.
Ummm…. Aren't there worse things in the world going on? Hardly see the urgency or point of this…
if I could summarize this post
1 – person was close to A-list (very close)
2 – person made bad assumptions when booking travel
3 – person annoyed when southwest a-list system worked as designed.
4 – person still had a friend reserve a seat, so it didn't really matter
Basically, if someone $itches loud enough even if it isn't SW fault should their agents be allowed to give up some of those expensive A1-15 or whatever seats.
They aren't empowered to do that.
hell even if you buy early bird, you could get bumped to. . .B or C if everyone else does too
I couldn't have had my burger this noon if I had 14cents short. LOL
Cattle truck of the sky!
+Jeremy Webber Certainly my life is blessed that this was the biggest irk I had to complain about.
+Klaus Guenther Yeah, I noticed a lack of G+ presence (otherwise I would have flagged them in the post).
The A-list non-mid-trip-upgrade is technically doable, but I can also think of reasons from my own development background why it wouldn't fit without some other major system tweaks. Not that big a deal, just expectations having to be readjusted.
+KT Lathan The flights were ordered several weeks ago. My daughters' was fine. My wife didn't order one on the return leg because of expectations about the A-list thang — but the key item was that she was told by two different SW agents on two different calls that she did have EarlyBird, which she therefore assumed had come across from my (cancelled) ticket. Those assertions turned out to be incorrect, thus the complaint.
i've heard instances of southwest actually screwing up and not giving up the A1-15 (which I think would be the only solution).
Don't care Dave really don't care, the airlines… Worst place to fly
+DAVID FIALKOFF Well, for one thing, Margie being a happy camper is one of my goals in life. For another, there was the off chance that someone from Southwest might see it and act to avoid these problems in the future. And for another thing, it's hardly been "hours."
+Gerald Hines No, they're not. But they could be better, and, I suspect, would like to be.
Margie was quite un happy when this occurred. My "rant" was a reaction to that.
+Traci Morris And the urgency/point of commenting that there's insufficient urgency/point to the original post, given all the bad things going on the world is …?
+Chris Graber The point you miss in your summary (call it 3.5) is that the person was assured by Southwest that she had Early Bird, so she didn't have to check in 24 hours beforehand on the pip. And that in fact when she called up to complain about that, she was told, again that she had EarlyBird, clearly in the face of not having it. And then was told there was nothing that could be done except for another passenger to violate Southwest's own policy on holding a seat.
The A-list stuff is incidental, more to demonstrate why she didn't order EarlyBird in the first place.
This is certainly not the post I would expect to blow up, but you never know. Agree or disagree with +Dave Hill , complaining about the content of the post, especially with snotty snark is just ridiculous. It's not like there's never been another post here with these same ideas being brought up.
You came here to read; if you don't like the post, move on just like you might if a song you didn't like came up on the radio. This isn't your living room, and you shouldn't poke your finger in the host's chest and make him change the conversation to your liking. I've had many conversations in +Dave Hill 's actual living room about many topics, some quite divisive, and I've never seen anyone be that rude.
Many folks online seem to think the internet is a place where they get to score points in some cosmic battle of 'rightness' – "Ooh, snarky comment on a blog post; I leveled up in life." Really, please stay in your mom's basement if that's the case.
Points aren't awarded until AFTER a reservation is complete. That's what makes sense, and as much as she's flown Southwest (and, obviously, keeping track of her points), it's hard to believe she didn't know that. If she had booked two one-way flights (booking the second after completing the first), her life may have gone differently.
24 hours before the flight they start issuing boarding passes and, even is you're at the top of the A-List, you have to book 72-hours (I think) in advance for being A-List to actually mean anything. If I book within 24 hours, my A-List means nothing. People have boarding passes in hand for their spot in line already.
So, regardless of what she was told, within 24 hours of the flight, they couldn't have done anything anyway, except tell a whole lot of other people to get in line behind Margie because she assumed that she was going to get a better spot in line. I don't understand why you would make the effort to actually make a phone call to check your Early Bird status instead of just checking in.
The one thing they will do, if you're A List, is allow you to board after the A group, same time as family boarding.
+Dave Hill so this complaint is regarding
1 I was told I had early bird
2 I didn't have early bird
You can try writing the CEO (my favorite complaint resolution) but you would be lucky to get drink coupons
1 early birds are a20 or so later
2 by the time you checked in early birds are gone
3 only opens are a1-15, for those business fares…. And they won't give those up
Personally, this is a 1-2 drink coupon issue.
+Gerald Hines I don't know that it "makes sense" that miles are awarded only after all legs in a round trip have been flown more than it would "make sense" that they are awarded after each leg is flown or that it would "make sense" they would be awarded after the credit card is charged. At any rate, it was unclear and (to the point of the tale) just a lead-in.
The booking was made weeks ago.
We were away from computers, and Margie's new phone didn't have the SW app on it yet to check the check-in. Since we've found in the past that calling Southwest is a faster way of dealing with these kind of issues, that what we chose to do. And since she was told by the agent on the line that she had EarlyBird, there was no reason to check any further.
Being offered the opportunity to board after the A's would have been a soft answer that would have made for a satisfied customer.
+Chris Graber In summary, yes, that was pretty much it.
And nothing wrong with drink coupons.
Ok, it makes sense to me. And since I see it happen that way every time I travel on Southwest, I know it's how it works, and don't assume otherwise.
Not trying to be an ass, but you're on the internet pointing fingers without assuming responsibility for your part or acknowledging that a allowing you to cut line (even if somebody on the phone told you something different) affects everybody else.
+Gerald Hines Since is the the first time one of us has been in this kind of observed situation, it wasn't obvious to us. Now we know. No problem.
I'm not quite sure where my responsibility comes in when I'm given incorrect information by Southwest. If they had said, "sorry, you're not A-list yet, and, no, you're not EarlyBird, either," then that would have been that.
It's true that letting Margie in ahead of others would have had an incremental harm to them (though effectively no more than the supervisor suggesting that my daughter hold a seat for her). On the other hand, if she'd actually had Early Bird, as she was informed, or if she'd learned she didn't but acted swiftly to check in at that time, others would have been bumped back, too.
To me, the issue is (a) Southwest's personnel, relying on their system, provided incorrect information that harmed (to the extent that getting a poor seat is a harm) my wife, and (b) were unable or unwilling to do anything about it. Not trying to be an ass, but I think that's a fail on their part.
If having Early Bird status and getting a good seat on the plane was this important to her, before she took the affirmative action to deliberately skip adding it to the return trip, she could have checked the policy.
http://www.southwest.com/html/customer-service/faqs.html?topic=rapid_rewards_program_terms_and_conditions
"The estimated Rapid Rewards Points to be earned that are displayed during the flight booking process are an estimate only and are based on the advertised one-way fare (segment fare multiplied by the fare coefficient plus the excise tax multiplied by the fare coefficient then rounded at the fare component level and at the excise tax level). The resulting totals are then added together to arrive at Rapid Rewards Point accrual. Rapid Rewards Points are earned and deposited into the Member's account after action has been taken on the entire ticket (i.e., flown, used as payment toward another ticket, refunded, or a combination thereof). The actual number of points earned for each individual flight is calculated after completion of the entire ticket and is based on the final dollar amount paid for the fare and fare product purchased for that flight. Airport-assessed Passenger Facility Charges (PFCs), federal segment fees, government-imposed September 11th Security Fee, and other taxes and fees are not eligible to earn points. Any changes to the original booking that result in a change in fare will result in a change to the number of points earned."
Note that the portion that is in bold, is in bold on the website. And if you didn't want to check there, I'm sure she could have just called and asked someone. Either way, before she made the decision not to add it, she probably should have checked. If she had, we wouldn't be talking now, would we?
It's a mix-up, and I don't think anybody was or is trying to screw you over. I guarantee you if you write them a letter you will receive a response and some sort of compensation. I have done so in the past. Not being an ass 🙂 but this all started from a decision your wife made, not something Southwest did.
So, yes, +Gerald Hines, if we had researched how the point bumps are done, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Subsequent to that, if Southwest had not incorrectly noted ("mixed up") whether Margie had EarlyBird status (twice, it turns out), we wouldn't be having this conversation, either.
For that matter, if, subsequent to that, Southwest's agent had been able to figure out something to say other than "No" and do other than providing a customer service number that (as was only found out when explicitly asked) was not manned until the next day, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation, either.
I agree with all of that but the last part. I'd hate to be someone who actually paid extra for a place in line, or someone who took all the right steps to secure their place in line (actually paid for Early Bird status or checked in right at 24 hours) who watches other people walk ahead of them in line, simply because they tell the gate agent that somebody promised them something on the phone. What happened to you isn't their fault and shouldn't become their problem.
There are enough people walking to the front of the line with a blue sleeve on their pass that don't actually need to pre-board, please let's not add anybody else.