So, assuming this isn't some temporary brainwashing or quirk from the recent Cosmic Cube zaniness, this is probably the stupidest idea that Marvel has ever had. And I include the Hypno-Hustler and Secret War 2 in that category.
If, as it seems (see more with Marvel executive editor Tom Brevoort on all of this here: http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2016/05/25/captain-america-comic-book-reveal/84896522/), this is actually, really, truly intended to be a fully-retconned-to-the-1930s edgy updating of Steve Rogers to have always been an Hydra agent, to reflect the zeitgeist of the Trump era or something like that, and that, yes, for the last 60 years everything Cap has done has been as a closet devotee of Hydra, whether it was punching Hitler in the face or punching the Red Skull in the face or punching Baron Zemo in the face, or punching Hydra agents in the face, it goes beyond anything that DC did (and is now apparently retracting) with their New 52 big hero tear-down.
And that leaves aside (a) the nastiness making the creation of two Jewish comics creators (Joe Simon and Jack Kirby), who were explicitly creating an opponent to the Axis powers, into a Hydra agent, and (b) the silliness of blowing the image / good-will built up about the character in the most recent Captain America movie[1] — it still remains just a triumph of "shock value" over "good story telling."
We will see.
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[1] I can't imagine it will benefit movie sales, if nothing else.
I mean, really, my first impression was, "Oh, this is just some short-term twist that Cap will have to be snapped out of." But the Brevoort interview really makes it sound like this is how Marvel continuity (such as it is) is meant to be. And it's just really, profoundly, awful, akin to "And, oh, I molested Bucky, too," in terms of really just badly jerking around a character that means an awful lot to a lot of people.
I will read Issue #2, where more, we are told, gets explained.
I always knew that slimy jingoist was up to no good.
My favorite quote in the Mary Sue article –
"Sure, you want them to feel and react to your story … but what exactly do you want them to feel? A good writer knows exactly what they want to say and evoke, and it isn’t just strong feels for the sake of strong feels."
Too many people have forgotten that last bit. It's like they sat down and said they needed something BIG to compete against DCs rebirth, and after realizing they already had Cap walk away from the Captain America ideal and strike out on his own, get assassinated, and suddenly become an old man, they realized the only new place to go was to make him a HYDRA agent.
Linking it to the Cosmic Cube is their parachute. After they milk a dead-end storyline for way longer than they should, they'll simply use the Cube to correct all the things.
Doesn't really excite me either way. Obviously sales are flagging and new writer thinks they can boost them. Brainwashed/false memories would be my guess, because nothing else fits into any sort of continuity.
And the writers have succeeded.
Captain America: Civil War 2 be like… Bucky, Cap vs Marvel Universe
If stomping on the ideals of a character that has been built over decades is what the writer was going for. I'll just stick to the MCU and sorry Cap, I'm done with the comics…
I'm not much of a comics guy. Nowhere near the folks who identify as comics-people, anyway.
But here's the thing…
Even if this is brainwashing; even if it's just an act; even if it gets retconned; even if it's nothing more than a publicity stunt…
It's still part of an ongoing trend at Marvel that shows an appalling lack of respect for Jewish characters and creators and the bizarre romanticizing of a Nazi organization.
Even if this "twist" ends up being reversed or made into an elaborate ruse, the upshot of this is we know Marvel's willing to screw with that legacy for publicity.
And going beyond Cap for a second; Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are actively having their Jewish heritage erased by Marvel higher ups who say thing like “can you point me to a single story, just one, in which the ‘fact’ that Wanda and Pietro come from a Jewish background is in any way relevant?” In the MCU, their Jewish identities are being erased and replaced with Christian identities (Wanda has a cross hanging in her room), while also re-imagining them as Hydra volunteers.
So here's Marvel, glamorizing Hydra, playing up the hail hydra memes, having their employees wear hydra merch and describe themselves as hydra in their twitter bios. Or writing a slice of life comedy with a hydra soldier as the protagonist.
They're trying to make Hydra cool, and that is, put simply, kind of disgusting.
Wouldn't be the first time that a character in a mainstream comic with minority affiliation or characteristic got rewritten so that the affiliation or characteristic is eliminated. See Shvaughn Erin (http://comicsalliance.com/lost-in-transition-legion-of-super-heroes-shvaughn-erin/) who became a different species and plain straight after several rewrites.
It'll probably be a short term thing. That he was zapped by some lost weapon of Zola's design and caused him to think he's loyal to Hydra. Kinda like when Frank Castle was hypnotized and started killing more criminals than usual, such as litterbugs and jaywalkers.
Its a shock value marvel gimmick. I've seen it many times.
In the long term, when you read comics over more than a decade, everything seems short term.
I like it
I still hated cap
+Vince H
glares
I don't know what you are all talking about. Except for Vince here. I personally think this is the best plot twist in recent years, except for Doctor Manhattan in DC Rebirth.
+Billy Domalik If it is a short-term thing, then it's no different from a series of other, similar type plots. I'd have no problem with that (and even assumed it was), except for the bits where Brevoort hints that this is, actually, the retconned reality since the beginning. That is particularly egregious, both for the character and for the long-time readers who absolutely know that hasn't been true.
+Marty Shaw That the Cosmic Cube is involved does create the possibility of Reality Changing, which may be an out. And a way back in. But it's dangerous to play that way.
(The Pleasant Hill storyline was way too truncated for all the impact it is supposedly having in the MU.)
+Ali Paloba The Doctor Manhattan twist in DC's Rebirth was, IMO, pretty sketchy. Trying to fold the Watchmenverse into the DCU is not a good fit, even leaving aside Alan Moore.
+Dave Hill I have faith in Geoff.
+Doyce Testerman FWIW, I've never considered Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch to be Jewish, though technically they arguably are/were as part of being parented by the Jewish Eric Lensherr (Magneto) and his wife Magda. Their cultural identity has always been much first with the Romany and then later with the Mutants. I don't think I've ever seen them identify as Jewish in the comics.
The irksome change to make Q&SW no longer Magneto's kids was more irksome from the whole "hey, mutants are no longer
profitablecool" side of Marvel. I had not heard anyone before now protesting that it meant that they were no longer Jewish.To the larger aspect of making Hydra "cool" — honestly, I don't see it. Making Hydra amusing (as part of #HailHydra meme), yes. But, yes, by progressively using Hydra to mask the Nazis (in the movies, for reasons that are driven as much for commercialism as anything else), and then stripping away much of their fascist aspect to simply become "bad guys organization people," it's certainly problematic.
+The Judgemental Nut hm?
Now I had decided to to quit social media for the day, feeling low in energy, but after reading a library copy of Superior Iron man: Infamous, I was motivated to comment.
I don't read DC and Marvel directly on a current basis as I just can't afford it. Instead I read public library copies of the comics and many of those are months or years behind and generally out of order (which oddly matches my reading experience in the 60s when my mother would buy bundles of remaindered DC reprints from jumble sales).
Anyway, I read the hardcover trade paperback mentioned above, and in the bonus material at back was a section called Behind the Iron Curtain mentioned AVENGERS & X-MEN: AXIS, where the heroes become bad guys and the bad guys become heroes. That was the case with Spiderman wasn't it, but it wasn't permanent. Clearly it's been the case with Iron Mann Man as well, so why not Captain America?
It will of course mean that this is only temporary, though for example in Spidey's case that was January 2013 – August 2014! So who's next after Cap? Thor? The Fantastic Four? It does explain some X-Men comics I've read recently, with Scott being a world class arsehole, and Magneto being more or less honourable.
+Laura Ess The Axis storyline was a bit oddball, and something of a "shock value" play, but was very obviously temporary (with a couple of odd exceptions, like Sabretooth). And, yes, the Hero Goes Bad (or, more rarely, the Villain Goes Good) is a hoary trope, explained by hypnotism or some other form or mind control, or sometimes magic, or even someone screwing around with the time line.
And it is altogether possible that's what's going on here. Except that there are hints from Brevoort that, if taken on face value, indicate that, no, that's not the case. Which, if true, is just plain stupid on multiple levels.
(Scott becoming an arsehole I pin mostly on Warren Ellis, picked up by succeeding talent, who decided that playing Scott as the overly-stick-up-arse straight arrow was boring so it would be fun to make him a jerk. That's been the case for probably a decade now, alas. Magneto being "more or less honorable" first cropped up in the Claremont era of the X-Men, at least three decades back; it's come and gone at times, but has generally turned into a "Magneto is an inherently noble protector of mutants who, pushed too far by the persecutions of humanity, becomes lethally overzealous about it, generating much bad PR for mutantkind.")
What captain America into S&M? When did this happen? 😀 lol.
Did you know Captain America is a under cover spy for hydra
+Pablo Galicia NO SHIT SHERLOCK
and what about this?
http://www.sbs.com.au/topics/sexuality/article/2016/05/26/comment-giving-captain-america-boyfriend-taking-things-too-far
I think he'd be better off with Sam instead of Bucky.
+Laura Ess lol 😀