Velvet Respec Redux

22 thoughts on “Velvet Respec Redux”

1. Hey, like your site. My wife and I enjoy duoing in CoH, too, so much to the point that we joined a SG in Guardian for married couples. Not very active yet, but it was fun and promising.
   Anyhow, I’ve got an INV/SS up to 27, and he’s a blast to play. Unfortunately, stamina is necessary, but you could save yourself a lot of powers and slots by skipping the fighting pool. Between 6-slotted Unyielding and TI with 2 slots toward Damage Resistance (or you can even skip TI if you’re going towards heavily slotted RPD), you’ll max your caps on Lethal and Smashing damage, and with Invincibility, defense is not an issue.
   That way, you’ll have more room in your build for Haymaker, Knockout punch, (or, if you want another vertical travel power, Air Superiority, the best pool power attack in the game–same damage as jab, but with an auto-knockdown feature that meshes well with SS’s other attacks.)

2. …whoops, just read the “DOs” part. Still, I’d stick to the slotting I sugggested because by the time you hit low-level 30s, money is no longer an issue (to the point you can start feeding your lower level toons on the server so that they won’t have to worry about sacrificing slots because of lacking enhancements).
   Consider Velvet your trailblazer for the rest of them. 🙂
   So slot with single origins in mind, because it’s easier than having to respec again.

3. So things went faster with a Blaster? Well, the same was true on my side of the fence. Being able to swoop in and spread the joy among a whole group was much nicer than my solo “pull one, eliminate, retrait, wait for regen” routine.
   And speaking of CoH Planner, anybody have any idea why the Inisibility I just added to my build is being figured into the Cumulative Endurance Worksheet? I’d sure like to figure out how I need to slot my Invis/Fly combo without resorting to in-game trial & error.

4. Thanks for the note, CurBludgeon.

   1. As I said, I’m running mostly green DOs, but I do have green SOs in some key places right now (what comes to mind is Accuracy in my SS attacks, but also I think I have dual SO recharges on Dull Pain). I expect I’ll be getting more, but won’t be going to an all-SO/all-the-time build quite yet.
   2. I do think I’m going to drop the Fighting pool at the moment. I’m also thinking (on respec) that with Invinc and a TH bonus, I can drop the Acc slots in my SS attacks.
      Interesting, I just noticed that I had the Fighting pool set up for Lynn Calodo (my MA/INV scrapper) — but she’s a bird of a different color.
   3. I’ve been seriously thinking about Air Superiority. That knockdown sounds pretty keen. I wouldn’t be doing it for another travel power, though — I like SJ just fine. Though that does chew up another power pool (saved, alternately, by not taking Fighting).

   Avo:

   1. Interesting. Invis should be a one-shot 1.5 End cost, not an ongoing (at least that’s how it describes it). Might ping the writer.
   2. The trio last night was balanced — control (Velvet + Avo), damage (Avo + PS), defense (PS + Velvet). Worked well.

5. Okay, so here’s a question:
   What attacks (since I’m respeccing) should I really go for? Given that I have to take at least one of Jab or Punch …
   All of these have a TH base of 75%. SS powers (which add aggro) are marked with (*).

   Power       DMG   END ACT RCHG   D/T  D/E Lvl Pool Notes
   
   Brawl       1.0   5.0   1   2   0.33 0.20  1  SS
   Jab*        1.9   5.0   1   2   0.63 0.38  1  SS
   Boxing      2.1   5.0   1   3   0.53 0.42  6  Fi   Disorient
   Jump Kick   2.8   6.5   3   3   0.47 0.43  6  Lp   Knockback
   Kick        2.3   5.5   2   2   0.56 0.56  6  Fi   Knockdown
   Punch*      2.8   7.5   1   4   0.56 0.37  2  SS   Knockback
   Air Super   2.8   7.5   2   4   0.47 0.37  6  Fly  -Fly
   Flurry      3.2   6.5   3   3   0.53 0.49  6  Spd  DoT
   Haymaker*   4.6  12.5   2   8   0.46 0.37 10  SS   Knockdown
   Knockout*   9.9  19.0   2  25   0.36 0.52 20  SS   Disorient+
   Foot Stomp* 3.9  26.5   2  20   n/a  n/a  38  SS   PBAoE, KB.

   Air Superiority is highly touted for its anti-flying, and is comparable to Punch; I’ve seen different comments as to whether it does KB/KD or not for folks on the ground (CoH Planner doesn’t indicate it).
   The D/T is (DMG/(ACT+RCHG)). That’s not altogether fair, since it assumes that’s the only attack you have. However, it would seem that if you focused on the powers with the highest D/T as your “chain,” you’d maximize your attack damage, right? (I’m sure Margie will quickly correct me, being the scrapper girl she is.)
   Looking purely at D/T wouldn’t factor in other things, like secondary effects (AS’s anti-fly power, or using Knockout as a disorienting alpha strike) or power pool usage (I have only two left free).
   D/E is (DMG/END); if you were going for the most efficient use of endurance, you’d want the highest values.
   More research!

6. This is what I get for commenting early in the moring. You’re right, AS is comparable to punch, not jab. I wouldn’t bother slotting jab at all, using it for its punchvoke effect only. Your big guns will be haymaker, KOB, and Foot Stomp, but you’ll want to slot the last 2, maybe all of them, with one end reduction.
   With 2 or 3 to hit buffs in Invincibility, you won’t need to slot accuracy in your attacks (although speculation on the forums has it that this will be nerfed soon).
   I’d suggest playing with Velvet on test server, and see which attacks you prefer. Once I hit 28, I plan on respecing my toon so that he goes with fully slotted punch and AS, and an occasional KOB and taunt thrown in. (Foot stomp and Haymaker to be added later). However, he’s got perma-hasten, so that the recharge between them will be small.
   Plus, my wife duos him with a katana/regen scrapper, so the killing duties really fall toward her. I just knock em down.
   Oh, and AS does indeed knock down grounded opponents. Seen it firsthand, which is why I want to respec into it.

7. Two things
   1) Have you concidered Hasten? It will increase your damage over time as your big attacks cycle faster. It will NOT help your endurance trouble.
   2) The best measure of damage is damage per second for the entire attack chain. Map out the chain with activation and recharge time taken into account. Then you can calculate the damage, endurance and time for the entire chain. You can then find the best chain for your toon. (Not that I’ve done the math on this. I just used someone else’s work on the boards for dark melee.)

8. My playtime is so limited (it feels like) that I hate investing in test server stuff. I would hate to burn the respec I have on something that doesn’t work, but I’m also willing to take a gamble.
   That said, I need to consider the above attacks and decide what I really want. 🙂

9. Okay, latest-greatest:
   Exported from version 1.5A of CoH Planner
   http://joechott.com/coh
   Archetype: Tanker
   Primary Powers – Ranged : Invulnerability
   Secondary Powers – Support : Super Strength
   01 : Jab dam(01) dam(3) dam(17) dam(37) dam(40)
   01 : Resist Physical Damage damres(01) damres(5) damres(7) damres(11) damres(31) damres(29)
   02 : Punch dam(02) dam(3) dam(13) dam(19) dam(39)
   04 : Dull Pain recred(04) recred(5) recred(7) recred(19) recred(15) recred(15)
   06 : Combat Jumping jmp(06)
   08 : Unyielding damres(08) damres(9) damres(9) damres(11) damres(13) endred(17)
   10 : Taunt tntdur(10)
   12 : Swift runspd(12)
   14 : Super Jump jmp(14)
   16 : Health hel(16) hel(37) hel(37) hel(39)
   18 : Invincibility endred(18) thtbuf(27) thtbuf(27)
   20 : Stamina endrec(20) endrec(21) endrec(21) endrec(23) endrec(23) endrec(25)
   22 : Temp Invulnerability endred(22) endred(25)
   24 : Haymaker dam(24) dam(31) dam(39)
   26 : Resist Energies damres(26) damres(33) damres(34)
   28 : Rage recred(28) recred(29) recred(33) recred(36) recred(40)
   30 : Hasten recred(30) recred(31) recred(33) recred(34) recred(36) recred(36)
   32 : Knockout Blow dam(32) dam(34) dam(40)
   35 : Unstoppable damres(35)
   38 : Tough Hide defbuf(38)
   41 : Conserve Power Empty(41)
   Not 100% sold on the attack powers, but …

10. Margie:
    1. As you’ll see above, I’ve added Hasten in (around 30). The endurance issues, and other survivability prerequisites (and the importance of hitting really fast) dictate a later taking of it than, say, a scrapper would have. 🙂
    2. Extending the question of best attacks out to a chain … doesn’t really change the equation.
    That said, I’ve charted out a chain with the above attacks:
    HAY-JAB-PUNCH-(1sec)-JAB-(2sec)-PUNCH-JAB …
    rinse, repeat.
    Not a good chain, with those gaps. With those powers, I can’t juggle things any better, though.
    With Air Superiority rather than Punch, I could do:
    JAB-HAY-AS-JAB-(2sec)-JAB-AS …
    Except there would then be a (1sec) before the next AS.
    Rrg. This is like project planning.

11. >Interesting. Invis should be a one-shot 1.5 End cost, not an ongoing (at least that’s how it describes it). Might ping the writer.
    Well, that’s why, then! I thought it was a toggle. I upgraded Stamina to 3 SOs at +1, but my endurance seemed to be draining like crazy when Flying with Invis, but not with Stealth. Have to pay more attention to what’s going on.

12. I’d expect Flight to be more expensive with Stealth than Invis. The latter is just a cast status (sort of like Haste) which you spend End on at the front, the former is an ongoing toggle.
    I find with Psi-clone that Flight doesn’t cost that much — as long as I don’t use powers during flight, or don’t maneuver. Either case will start sucking End like my fuel tanks got strafed by Zeros.

13. Are you sure? I’m ingame now, and Invis is a toggle. I just turned it on and it exerts a constant drain on my End. Combined with Fly, it drains faster than I can recover with three SOs in Stamina and one EndRed SO +1 in Invis.
    Where did you get the info on the cost? That makes more sense for Grant Invisiblity, which affects others.

14. Aha! According to Warcry http://coh.warcry.com/index.php/content/compendium/powers.php?pid=373 the End Cost of Invis is 0.8. So why doesn’t CoH Planner account for it?

15. Sorry to keep adding, but I just checked CoH Planner, and in the default view it lists an End cost, but doesn’t take it into account in the End worksheet. Frustrating.

16. You’re correct, it is a toggle. The CoH planner info for it says toggle, but it has a fixed End cost in there, as you note. Need to find how to contact Joe Chott to get that fixed.
    Also noticed the info for Tough Hide is incorrect (doesn’t add any Defense in the Cumulative Defense worksheet).

17. I’ve raised the respec question on the CoH forums, too.

18. And the biggest problem with posting build queries to the boards is:
    a. 90% of the responses are from level 40+ folks who forget that
    b. Not everyone has +3 SOs in all of their enhancements.
    *sigh*
    I’m presently thinking the following (with planning beyond 25, which I dinged to last night, btw):
    01 : Jab dam(01) dam(3) dam(17) dam(37) dam(40) dam(39)
    01 : Resist Physical Damage damres(01) damres(5) damres(7) damres(11) damres(31) damres(29)
    02 : Punch dam(02) dam(3) dam(13) dam(19) dam(39)
    04 : Dull Pain recred(04) recred(5) recred(7) recred(19) recred(15) recred(15)
    06 : Combat Jumping jmp(06)
    08 : Unyielding damres(08) damres(9) damres(9) damres(11) damres(13) endred(17)
    10 : Taunt tntdur(10)
    12 : Swift runspd(12)
    14 : Super Jump jmp(14)
    16 : Health hel(16)
    18 : Invincibility endred(18) thtbuf(27) thtbuf(27)
    20 : Stamina endrec(20) endrec(21) endrec(21) endrec(23) endrec(23) endrec(25)
    22 : Temp Invulnerability endred(22) endred(25)
    24 : Haymaker dam(24) dam(31) dam(39) dam(37)
    26 : Resist Energies damres(26) damres(33) damres(34)
    28 : Rage recred(28) recred(29) recred(33) recred(36) recred(40)
    30 : Hasten recred(30) recred(31) recred(33) recred(34) recred(36) recred(36)
    32 : Knockout Blow dam(32) dam(34) dam(40) dam(37)
    35 : Unstoppable damres(35)
    38 : Tough Hide defbuf(38)
    41 : Conserve Power Empty(41)
    Remaining open questions:
    1. What attack powers to respect to. With this, I’d be currently fighting with Jab, Punch, Haymaker (which I got to see Phed-X using last night — it was interesting fighting with another INV/SS, esp. since I could see how *his* endurance was sucking wind all night). Can’t get a fourth right now (besides, bleh, Brawl) with all the other things I think I need. (As it is, I’m uneasy about my lack of REL, and only getting REN next time out, though Unyielding assists in that; I know what comes at the end of the Hess TF …)
    2. Tweaking the slot order a bit, maybe.
    3. Add EndRed to the attacks? I’ll have to play her to find out.
    To which end, I’ll probably do this tonight, so I have a couple of days to play with her before the TF.

19. Now here’s an interesting idea for Attack Powers. All I have to do is figure out how to get them.
    Jab, Flurry, Air Superiority, KO Punch
    Now, Jab and KO are both part of SS, so no pool impact. And KO Punch, the last, is available at 20. Both provide Tanker punchvoke (which Flurry and AS don’t, aside from their basic damage).
    Flurry is part of the Speed pool. I’m taking that for Hasten soon enough. It also has a Disorient possibility (as does Jab, slightly, and KO, majorly).
    AS is part of the Flight pool, which I really don’t need anything from. But it has a high knockdown, and can take down fliers. That gives it the edge on Punch, even if it’s one tick slower.
    One bonus: I’ve mapped out an attack chain with this of KO, Jab, AS, Jab, Flurry, AS, Jab, Flurry
    that has *no* downtime (constant attack animation, as long as I target consistenly; no waiting for powers to come up).
    This attack chain is close to the Cuddles one, so I’m not entirely insane.
    This doesn’t get me Haymaker … but, looking at the stats, Haymaker actually kinda sucks. It’s an endurance hog with a looong recycle; Jab is actually a better attack than Haymaker (except for the latter’s knockdown), and gives the rapid-recycle flexibility.
    I did a bunch of number crunching and comparisons of the SS powers and all the other punch/kick pool powers, and these four came up on top (with Kick and Boxing from the Fighting pools contending). A visual review of the raw numbers confirmed it for me.
    Thoughts? Bueller?

20. This does represent four attacks at a time when I only have three available. Would need to decide whether to hold off on KO punch (as in the above proposed build) or drop something else instead.
    (The Anti-Toggle Gods keep whispering, “Drop TI, Drop TI …”)

21. The “Weathering the Storm” guide has some good stats on the SS attacks.
    “Power Pool Attacks” gives good stats (dmg, end) on the pool attacks.
    Using KO as a yardstick, the best total damage chain I can come up with is with Jab, Punch, A/S, and KO. Punch’s shortness lets me fit things together more tightly, even though Flurry looks keen.

22. Ended up, after a bit more analysis (and some quick tries on the Test Server), going with Jab, Punch, Air Superiority, and KO. The latter of which I’ll actually pick up at 26, next level.
    Final build (note, only at 25 at the moment):
    01 : Jab endred(01) dam(3) dam(17) dam(37) dam(40) dam(39)
    01 : Resist Physical Damage damres(01) damres(5) damres(7) damres(11) damres(31) damres(29)
    02 : Punch endred(02) dam(3) dam(13) dam(19) dam(39) dam(39)
    04 : Dull Pain recred(04) recred(5) recred(7) recred(19) recred(15) recred(15)
    06 : Combat Jumping jmp(06)
    08 : Unyielding damres(08) damres(9) damres(9) damres(11) damres(13) endred(17)
    10 : Taunt tntdur(10)
    12 : Swift runspd(12)
    14 : Super Jump jmp(14)
    16 : Health hel(16)
    18 : Invincibility endred(18) thtbuf(25) defbuf(27)
    20 : Stamina endrec(20) endrec(21) endrec(21) endrec(23) endrec(23) endrec(25)
    22 : Temp Invulnerability endred(22)
    24 : Air Superiority dam(24) dam(27) dam(31) dam(34) dam(34) dam(40)
    26 : Knockout Blow dam(26) dam(33) dam(37) dam(42) dam(42) dam(43)
    28 : Rage recred(28) recred(29) recred(33) recred(36) recred(40) recred(43)
    30 : Hasten recred(30) recred(31) recred(33) recred(34) recred(36) recred(36)
    32 : Resist Energies damres(32) damres(37)
    35 : Unstoppable damres(35)
    38 : Tough Hide defbuf(38)
    41 : Conserve Power recred(41) recred(42) recred(43)
    44 : Foot Stomp kbkdis(44)
    Did a bit of playing around and discovered I really needed the EndRed in my attacks (did in in just two, since there are no slots in A/S yet).
    Got invited into a pick-up Malta game, SKed up and all. Even though there was major healing and End buffing going on, I could see that:
    1. With everything cranked up, I may be hittable, but I can absorb a *lot* of damage.
    2. The attack chain works faboo — Jab, Punch, Jab, A/S …
    3. If all my toggles are down, I can still go down quick in an ambush against +4 enemies. Of course, so can most of the other people in the room.
    So … pretty happy. Need to do some test work, but I feel pretty good running the TF (with Tons o’ Council) this weekend.