But true! And what does it do?
A. Keep all the cool things from Obamacare that people say they like. (E.g., insurance companies can't deny coverage based on a pre-existing condition.)
.
B. Shift all the costs back to individual insurance purchasers or, optionally, their employers, putting things, de facto, back where they were before the ACA. (E.g., insurance companies can't deny coverage based on a pre-existing condition, but they can charge extortionate rates for it.)
In other words, just about what I'd expect.
GOP Obamacare Replacement Plan Calls for Higher Costs and More Poor People Dying
The CARE Act is a return to the days of higher insurance premiums and less coverage.
127 view(s)
This is where the line between "Republican" and "Conservative" becomes even more defined.
Not everyone is on board with this but, either way, Obamacare needs to go.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/gop-obamacare-alternative-114820.html#.VM-14WjF-Wb
And Jindal's plan….
http://americanxt.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/The-Freedom-and-Empowerment-Plan.pdf
I agree it needs to go…
… and be replaced by a good government run national healthcare system similar to every other post-industrial democracy.
For what reason does the ACA "need to go"? The lower health care costs? The millions of people now having insurance who didn't before? Or just cause it's referred to as Obamacare and anything from him must be bad?
I haven't read the article on the Jindal plan in depth, but a skim indicates the ACA needs to go because … well, things didn't work out perfectly with it, which would be okay in any sane world where discussions could be had about tweaking the identified problems but which can't be fixed in Washington now because the GOP House, and now Senate, are only interested in getting rid of it.
It certainly isn't perfect and tweaks and changes could be made, but scrapping the whole thing would be a disaster. And I have yet to see an alternative plan that is any good, including Jindal's.
The ACA is a good start, all that needs
To happen is the next step which would be going full Bismarck and force the health providers and insurers to be non-profits.
I’d be happy to scrap Obamacare in favor of a sane, single payer healthcare system, like most every other industrialized nation has. Of course, that would both lower cost and have better outcomes. Note, for example, that the U.K pays less than half of what we do per capita, yet manages to have a longer average lifespan, with a single payer system. But no way is our government going to let that happen.
I read the proposal, it is the aca. It is no different. This is what we in insurance call smoke and mirrors and what everyone else should call it. The only immediate effect repealing the aca would do is make everyone's insurance bill become due immediately.
+Les Jenkins totally agree. For once I would like to have medical decisions not require a bean counter. I do have a bias i admit. The ACA saved my life because it erased a '"pre existing condition" excuse to avoid paying for a genomic scan.
That IS their plan – "DIE FASTER!!!"
mindless drivel.
I doubt any Libtards bothered to read it…
+Milton Ragsdale
why would they? They didn't even read their own.
+Milton Ragsdale Intelligent comment – I read the whole thing and Jindal is an idiot.
Just a note for conversation: There are two plans that have been mentioned here, the GOP "CARE" plan, and Jindal's "FEP" plan.
+Milton Ragsdale I see you are keeping it civil… I read it. It undoes everything that is good about the ACA.
But why do you conservaturds hate any American that does not march in lock step with you?
+Milton Ragsdale I have no doubt that you are afraid that they will. The childish term "libtard" is just an attack from irrational fear. Grow up
my Favorite quote from this entire article.
"In other words, when Republicans vote for the 60th time to repeal the ACA, they will be saying to America that the poor and the very sick will die and that is perfectly okay because that’s how the free market works."
How about no government in health care, They never fix anything and they make stuff more expensive.
+Myron D Yes, let's have separation of commerce and state.
Yes let's be one of the only industrialized nations in the world without health care for its people. And while we're at it let's deregulate everything so that commerce can just rule. They wouldn't take advantage of the citizens would they?
For those of you "wanting gov out of health care" I recommend checking out Health Care Triage YouTube series on government health care systems around the world. He covers quite a few countries with public private mix that have much better care than the US and for much lower costs.
https://www.youtube.com/user/thehealthcaretriage/videos
Spoiler alert: France is not completely socialized care, in fact few countries are. Most have a good mix of public private systems.
The ACA is great for people who can't afford health insurance. But here's the problem. If you had health insurance before the law, your plan is now ruined.
+wayne foutz Are you speaking from experience or just spewing Fox News rhetoric? Because most people I know who had insurance previous to the ACA saw very little or no increase to their plans.
+Scott Jacobs I'm paying pretty much the same. But I didn't have this humongous deductible before. $45 co-pay, 60% of the bill was covered. Now I have to spend this ridiculous amount before ANYTHING is covered. In other words, on all three of my required doctors visits per year, I get billed full fare, the same as I would if I had no insurance at all. I'm paying $60 a week for my plan. Poof, out the window it goes, and I get nothing in return. I have had a live in girlfriend for three years. I'd love to marry her. When I do, my premium triples and the deductible doubles.
+wayne foutz But that is the insurance companies doing, not the ACA. And if the GOP hadn't refused the single payer plan the competition would have brought those costs down. Like I said, the ACA is definitely not perfect but that doesn't mean we should get rid of it. We need to bring costs down for everyone, but we also needed to get the uninsured people paying their fair share because before the ACA we were all covering for them too. The fact that about 27 states haven't joined in on the government's program also hurts everyone. Idiot GOP Governors need to quite making it political and allow those who are uninsured to have the option to buy in. Free market rules, supply and demand. More competition and more customers would bring the cost down.
+Milton Ragsdale
your post at 21:26 UT
GOPers need to be strong. They need to nominate a candidate who will sign the repeal of Obamacare. They need to extract a pledge from each candidate that the candidate will sign the Congressionally approved repeal of Obamacare. Will Jeb Bush sign the repeal? Will Marco Rubio sign the repeal? Will Chris Christie sign the repeal? This is where the rubber meets the road. Not pledging to repeal is grounds for a GOPer candidate not to be nominated
In other words, when Republicans vote for the 60th time to repeal the ACA, they will be saying to America that the poor and the very sick will die and that is perfectly okay because that’s how the free market works.
Dems out of touch with real world. Wait till they loose the White House the house and Senate gone already.
+Gary Richardson I'm not a Democrat but I don't see a single GOP candidate who would be worth voting for from the current group. Sanders/Warren 2016
+Scott Jacobs to early try to make pic. I don't think future prez in the field yet
+Reggie Grant According to the CDC, despite the ACA, the US mortality rate is on the rise. I'd say health care is declining due to ACA because hospitals and clinics are shutting down due to the law.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/12/rural-hospital-closings-federal-reimbursement-medicaid-aca/18532471/
+Gary Richardson Good point. I can see that. Hopefully the candidate will not come from too far to the right. And hopefully Hillary will not be the other candidate.
I just think dems putting all their eggs in one basket and underestimate the American people
+Scott Jacobs you know if Hillary was such a good candidate why they drop her like hot potato last time.
What's good for the rich is good for America. Bush is the richest and, therefore, the fittest. Bush speaks the language of his fellow rich people.
+Milton Ragsdale My comment was a direct quote from the article so save your breath arguing with me about that point when the repubs actually come up with a realistic plan that makes not only fiscal sense but ethical sense they might actually improve something.
And Ya Bitched about the OC. Get the Lube or NOT?
+Mark Hart Obama was speaking it to! bail out to the banks and Obamacrap care! No regulatory commission to protect us from inflated pricing and profiteering from the medicash industry. Have you noticed them building more clinics? Guaranteed money baby!!!!@@#$@#$@##$@#%
+Milton Ragsdale It's kind of ironic complaining about how, under the ACA, small rural hospitals "rural hospitals the federal government first established beginning in the late 1940s" are struggling or going under due to "low Medicare and Medicaid reimbursements," while at the same time pushing for a "separation of commerce and state."
Aside from a substantial part of the problem being state governments that didn't expand Medicaid as anticipated (and as allowed to not due based on a SCOTUS ruling, not by design of the ACA), this is yet another area where the problem could be solved legislatively, if the Congressional GOP were willing to do anything related to the ACA other than repeal it.
It's like complaining that the new car is making a rattling noise, but insisting the answer is to get rid of the car, rather than let a mechanic fix it.
Same thing Obamacare just did to the middle class and elderly.
How come we haven't heard Sarah Palin cry about "Death Panels" yet?
+Dave Hill
Also, tons of hospitals have been struggling BEFORE ACA, mostly because they're top heavy, mismanaged, and typically replicate services which other nearby competitors also provide. In countries where healthcare is more managed, for example, one doesn't find multiple CT machines in a single town (I live in Poughkeepsie, we have at least 6 within a 30 minute driving radius), nor does one find abnormally high use of such expensive technologies for relatively benign causes (reference Consumer Reports article of past month).
I live minutes from a major hospital going through bankruptcy – they were acquired by another group a little while ago. The words some insiders are using are "it was a zoo – a free for all", with the top managers making millions of dollars in salaries to manage nothing more than weekend golf tournaments.
ACA is a healthy (pardon the pun) dose of reality for lots of members of the healthcare community: Hospitals which are primarily concerned with profit rather than health care, insurance companies who siphoned off 40% or more of health dollars to share holders and executives, and patients who still think that "more money = better outcomes". This isn't just me saying this. It's not just anecdotal. Hundreds of studies over the past few decades have confirmed this, and Europe – in particular – which spends a much smaller percentage of GDP on healthcare and is much more directly involved in health management and cost management is also much more successful: On average Europeans live 8 years longer. I could get into the bible belt states (bastions of conservatism, as they are) which are even more dismal – delete another 6 years for them, plus add things like higher teen pregnancy rates and how they treat elderly "1950's style", but I digress.
Hospitals are not only stuggling after Obamacare they are closing. And good luck seeing a doctor…now you get to see PA's because the doctor will charge 3 times more.
+Dsherm1 Really? My doctor isn't charging three times more than before the ACA.
+Dsherm1 •looks at the 3 emergency care facilities in the neighborhood either built or are under construction in the past year and the doubling in size of the nearby hospital•
Please, do go on, and show your work.
And this is a problem, why?
CARE Cover Anyone Rich Enough. All hail the 1%!
+Dave Hill Maybe not in your part of the country but as soon as they see you have insurance…up goes the price. If you switch doctors there is now a new patient charge….around $200. Doctors are making sure they are getting a piece of the pie.
+Stan Pedzick Exactly…doctors closing practices and becoming part of the hospital=expansion. Some doctors are moving to smaller healthcare/emergicare type places and smaller hospitals are closing.
Since the beginning of 2010, 43 rural hospitals — with a total of more than 1,500 beds — have closed, according to data from the North Carolina Rural Health Research Program. The pace of closures has quickened: from 3 in 2010 to 13 in 2013, and 12 already this year. Georgia alone has lost five rural hospitals since 2012, and at least six more are teetering on the brink of collapse. Each of the state's closed hospitals served about 10,000 people — a lot for remaining area hospitals to absorb.
The Affordable Care Act was designed to improve access to health care for all Americans and will give them another chance at getting health insurance during open enrollment starting this Saturday. But critics say the ACA is also accelerating the demise of rural outposts that cater to many of society's most vulnerable. These hospitals treat some of the sickest and poorest patients — those least aware of how to stay healthy. Hospital officials contend that the law's penalties for having to re-admit patients soon after they're released are impossible to avoid and create a crushing burden.
6-out-of-10 doctors retiring early.
+Dsherm1 Nice copy/paste from a USA Today article.
But what you left out from that article is the hardest hits states are those who refused to expand medicaid (23 of them, including Georgia). Blame your state government for using political BS instead of caring about helping their people.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/12/rural-hospital-closings-federal-reimbursement-medicaid-aca/18532471/
+Scott Jacobs The GOP and their voters simply can't handle the WHOLE TRUTH. Ever.
+Harro Penk
Pretty blanket statement from someone who supports the biggest liar in history. Everytime Obama opens his mouth a lie comes out. there is nothing worse than a liar….they will do anything to get their way. the facts are we haven't been told the truth in the last 7 years.
+Scott Jacobs You're correct because Obama is punishing those states for not following the sheeple.
+Dsherm1 LOL. Right, because he's interested in seeing those states fail – it'll make him look good?
Let me guess, you wear aluminum foil on your head when you step into your house…..
+Dsherm1 No, the state governments of those states are being complete idiots by not helping the poorest people in their state receive medicaid and have health care. What the ACA (approved by Congress, not just Obama) has done is provide insurance for MILLIONS of people who never had it before, which was making the rest of us pay higher premiums to cover those who were uninsured.
+Dsherm1 Bigger than Vietnam?
Bigger than Iraq?
Bigger than "we'll get warrants from court after we search"?
Bigger than "Iraq is manufacturing WMD's"?
We haven't been told the truth in more than 50 years, dude.
Where should we start – Cuba? WWII? WWI?
LOL. You probably still believe that Gulf of Tonkin was an attack on the US too.
ok now you're reaching….we aren't talking about history we are talking about the last 7 years.
And I'm not a "DUDE"
Anyone who believes that the government running healthcare is good for us has not talked to a veteran about their health care.
Obamacare is an authentic disaster. Liberals are individuals playing checkers at a chess game.
+Dsherm1 Right, because if we look back in history at some of those big whoppers, then all of a sudden "keeping your insurance" doesn't sound like the worst lie anymore. I see, we can ONLY discuss the last 7 years because that somehow makes more sense then.
Alright then, dudette: How about those supposed death panels? Or how we were going to lose hundreds of thousands of jobs to Obamacare? Or perhaps the one about Obama not saying the word "Terrorist", which then promptly was changed to "not saying Terrorist enough", which then changed to "not saying Islamic Terrorist", and now became "He never stops talking about Islamic terrorists to instill fear in everyone". How about the nonsense about "the Obama administration is going to take your guns", the one about "the Ebola debate isn't a political agenda timed for the election", "Obama's administration keeps cutting funding for veterans", "Obama is outspending every president", and my personal favorite: "Obama has broken the constitution and should be impeached". We could get into the nonsense about "Bengazi", the silly debate about his "birth status", or maybe even the fact that he's black, but… you know….
WHY LIMIT OURSELVES TO JUST THE LAST 7 YEARS?
LOL……
He's also white. Liberals love throwing that card around…must be the only one in your deck.
No you can keep your insurance is way worse..it hit Americans where it counts most…In their homes and wallets. So say what you like…there is a reason Obama's ratings are so low. It's called lying while he looks you in the eye.
The deficit….can't lie his way out of that one. $18.1 Trillion and will be $23 Trillion by the end of 2015. he just keeps spending…thank God Republicans are in control so they can try and stop some of the bleeding.
The fact is Obama has made things worse for a lot of people try talking to your neighbors.
Get your lips of his butt so you can see.
+Dsherm1 Can you point to the line in the law that stated that any insurance which doesn't fulfill AHCA requirements gets shut down by the government?
Hint: There isn't one.
Those insurance companies closed those programs VOLUNTARILY, just so they would be listed on the exchange. BTW, those "requirements"? Considered the MINIMUM STANDARD FOR HEALTH CARE BY MOST DEVELOPED COUNTRIES.
For some strange reason, lots of folks in the US appear to think that those minimum standards are too much, though. I wonder how many of them watch Fox news?
+Dsherm1
WOW ! Thanks, I hate being the one who says this ALL the time.
+Dsherm1
Also ma'am, my 'neighbor' was devastated by this pres., and I am getting hit hard too. We both (he's actually my neighbor) were doing just fine. I had to switch careers, but I handled my transition, but he took a direct hit.
Thanks again.
+Harro Penk
Doesn't matter…people lost their policies because of Obamacare.
Insurance companies are in Obama's back pockets.
And there ya go:
"people lost their policies because of Obamacare"
+Dsherm1 Well aren't we the selfish one. You are what makes this country a failure. Its all about you. You could give a rats ass about others. You whine about higher costs and hospitals closing. We were in such a fucking mess with healthcare. Are you really that inept that moving to a system that will work better and be more efficient would be without a little pain?
You conservatives just spent your decade trashing this country and now when we try to clean it up you complain. Sorry bitch we need to vacuums the carpet. If you cant see the TV too bad. If this process is making it worse for you then maybe its your turn to be in desperate times. Maybe you need to feels like to be in a desperate situation with no solution.
the ACA is much better for me. I don't have to have my insurance company tell me no when my doctor wants to try something new to cure my cancer. I don't have to get the letter that says "Sorry that this could save your life but we don't cover experimental procedures"
You want me to talk to my neighbor? The lady that delivers my mail lived with a perforated spleen for 4 years after her husband threw her through a patio door. She left him and got new insurance. "sorry but the perforated spleen is a pre existing condition". She had her surgery because of the ACA and is now walking around without a time bomb inside of her.
And if there is any room left in your "cold self centered" and "all about me" heart, maybe you could realize that some people have been helped. I know that from your posts that there is little chance of room in that simple brain of yours for new information. But just in case you can delete some selfish cunt information wasting space.
The deficit is not 18 .1 Trillion. that is the debt you ignorant cow. Yeah I am insulting you and using vulgar terms for you. But what else do you do when people like you are screaming LIAR LIAR the president is a LIAR and you cant even get your facts straight. All president lie but you don't even have the integrity to investigate or educate yourself on the topic before you go bash the president? And this time it bit you in the ass. Not hard as "ass": is 99% of your body mass. Obama's approval rating is 47%. Higher than Either Bush at this point in his presidency and even Clinton. So sit down and shut your trap before you embarrass yourself even more.
The fact is, Obama has made things a lot better for the majority of the people in the country. Try taking your lips off of your own asshole and swallowing shit all day and learn something.
I am glad you are having problems with the ACA.
I hope that you find yourself in the position where something is wrong and you cant get the care you need.
Maybe is some of you spoiled people can experience what it is like walking around with a time bomb in your body that could go off at any time only because an insurance company wont help. Maybe if you were terminal but a new procedure could save you but your couldn't have it because someone said no. Maybe then you would not complain so much when we try to fix those problems. If some people have to sacrifice a little bit so others can at least have some, that is a good compromise.
I guess in short. stop being a SPOILED COLD HEARTED IGNORANT [Redacted by the site owner]!
Wow!…………And the douche nozzle weighs in.
+Dsherm1 Really, they are in his "backpockets"? Is that why they lobbied like crazy against it?
You might want to read the list of top contributors to the GOP reelection fund of the 2012 campaign. I read it – the medical/insurance companies were all "investing" with the GOP. Don't take my word for it – read it yourself.
+Moderate Atheist
I care less about EVERYONE, I worked for what i had, now it is gone.
'Nuff said bud.
Watch your mouth, this may just be a lady, pussyboy.
If you are in need, go to your mom's nightstand, I left two dollars there.
+Dan Matansas Nice, telling someone to watch their mouth, and then calling them names.
As usual – nothing new here. Conservatives LOVE to tell everyone how to behave, without any fucking regard for their own behavior.
"MY GUNS".
"MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH"
"MY RIGHTS".
No shit. Everyone's got'em. It's a perfect storm of a group of people who are too self-righteous to notice that they spend half the day trampling all over their own rights, all the while crying "F R E E D O M" as if that comes from calling people names or bullying someone in a conversation.
You don't even have the decency to attack him, but instead whine at his mother?
Now I know why I stopped voting GOP again: It's all the witless idiots who keep voting GOP no matter how senseless their policies are. Everyone knows more about Obamacare than the GOP's plan for health care, even though noone stops talking about it. Guess why?
NO WIT. NO PLAN. NO FUTURE.
+Dan Matansas You worked for everything you had but now it is gone, and that's because of the ACA?
The economy in this country is so much better off than when Bush was President. Almost every economic indicator out there has done better since Obama has taken office.
If you've lost everything you had it certainly isn't the President's fault. Maybe you should consider changing your Ayn Rand perspective of the world.
Obama left people with no future.
There is no reason to have to pay for everyone. Get a job! I don't care what you have to do to support your family. Quit sponging off of everybody else.
+Scott Jacobs Sure. He's a doctor!!! LOL.
No, it's because he bought a house with a variable loan rate and counted on his job to pay him more each year, when GOP "trickle down" policies have a PERFECT RECORD of keeping pay rates stagnant. It's absolutely impressive, how even though EVERY OTHER MARKET – stocks, bonds, commodities including gold, oil, and grain, real estate, etc – have seen ups and downs. AND YET THROUGHOUT ALL OF THIS, INCOMES HAVE BEEN STAGNANT. And what is the GOP answer to that problem?
They want more trickle-down. Give the 1% even more tax breaks. Take away your right to vote. Give you more opportunity to fail and blame yourself in the process (except no GOP voters ever do).
Funny you like to blame the GOP for everything when the Democrats have been in charge of congress for the last 8 years. It's their policies you have been living under for the last 8 years not Republicans.
This mess is created by the Democrats.
+Scott Jacobs
You really should look at the statistics…before you say our economy is better now. And don't forget that the Democrats were in charge of the last 2 years that Bush was in office. Things have gone down hill since.
Obama tripled Bush's deficit and now it's out of control. Oh I forgot debt is the way of Democrats….spend spend spend even if you don't have the money. Print it. Like writing hot checks.
President Bush expanded the federal budget by a historic $700 billion through 2008. President Obama would add another $1 trillion.
President Bush began a string of expensive financial bailouts. President Obama is accelerating that course.
President Bush created a Medicare drug entitlement that will cost an estimated $800 billion in its first decade. President Obama has proposed a $634 billion down payment on a new government health care fund.
President Bush increased federal education spending 58 percent faster than inflation. President Obama would double it.
President Bush became the first President to spend 3 percent of GDP on federal antipoverty programs. President Obama has already increased this spending by 20 percent.
President Bush tilted the income tax burden more toward upper-income taxpayers. President Obama would continue that trend.
President Bush presided over a $2.5 trillion increase in the public debt through 2008. Setting aside 2009 (for which Presidents Bush and Obama share responsibility for an additional $2.6 trillion in public debt), President Obama’s budget would add $4.9 trillion in public debt from the beginning of 2010 through 2016.
+Dsherm1 The democrats aren't what caused banks to bet 100 Trillion dollars on a failing real estate market (and that's not even an exaggeration – they now have nearly $130T in that same market). Don't go there, it just makes you sound ignorant, especially in light of 25 years of banking deregulation started by Reagan and furthered by every other (literally – every other) President, Congress, and party. About every 2 years they found interesting new ways to make banks more reliant on their own "good business sense". Since that started, we've endured two stock market crashes, a savings and loan scandal, two real estate collapses, and the bond market. I could get into the rollercoaster ride with commodities like oil and gold, but what for: You'll just blame that on the "evil liberals".
They are also not responsible for the banks creating a situation whereby they KNEW that they were going to fail, and yet continued to sell these products to all kinds of investors (including those with retirement savings), while HEDGING against their own product. This isn't some best "guess" of what happened: The banks have admitted fault and paid (are paying!) the largest fines in the history of the world for their decisions in that regard. This is now a matter of history and FACT, not opinion and guess anymore.
The $700B anti-poverty program you speak of, is FACTUALLY $840B of spending which Bush and a bilateral Congress (50/50) spent in order to prop up those "too big to fail" banks. I guess you forget that part? That was 2008, i.e. just before Obama took office.
Guess where that money went? The first place that money was spent wasn't to help create new loans for businesses. It didn't go to factories or mortgages. It didn't go into social programs and unemployment benefits. It – FAMOUSLY – went to make sure that all those people who caused the world-wide financial melt down of 2008 would get the CHRISTMAS BONUS ON TIME. Then they hung onto the money and loaned it back to the various governments worldwide, including our own. They collected a ton of interest on those payments, and used all of that profit to fill their shareholder's pockets. As far as anyone can tell, not one business loan or economic stimulus of any kind was generated by any of this. Instead, to make us all feel better – they repaid the loans (after benefiting greatly, and paying fines which amount to pennies on the dollar).
The "health care" subsidies you speak of were put in place in 2003, and were actually voted into being in the previous administration (I'll let you look up who that was, since I doubt you can remember back that far). It took an additional 2 years for those prescription laws to actually start to make any difference. FAMOUSLY – they are what is now known as the "DONUT", i.e. whereby people who actually need lots of healthcare to stay alive first must dish out several thousand dollars in order to receive the first dollar for medical coverage. BTW, this is exactly what AHCA is supposed to fix – a Bush era mistake which was well studied and reported, and which you appear to completely dismiss.
The Trillions of dollars you appear to cry about didn't come from increases in health care, public programs, construction, education, science, or social programs. That would at least led to building some level of industry. No, Ma'am. That's the cost for starting a war in two countries without having a plan to finish it. Iraq alone cost in the area of $1B per day, and Afghanistan was so expensive that a single bottle of water, delivered to troops, cost over $100. Guess what – they shipped a lot of water bottles, and everything else. And yet, exactly how many roads/projects can we point to in those two countries today and claim to have lasted more than 2 weeks?
But you can easily prove me completely wrong:
Just name the "antipoverty" programs, and what they supposedly cost the US taxpayer. I can tell you exactly what they were: Two wars and a bank bailout.
I find it amusing when people spew about the "illusion" of a two party system.
Yes, take sides. Does it really matter?
Where did you stand on the war? With the 93% who supported going to war or the 7% who didn't know? Those were different desperate times for a lot of people. The Democrats also voted to go to war. Kerry, Reid, Clinton and Biden all gave the thumbs up along with several others.
According to Obama on the stump we got all that bank bailout money back.
Not all of the banks who received TARP money have repaid the loans. In fact, 400-plus banks are still on the government’s red list — more than have completed the payments — and, according to the GAO, some may never pay the money back.
Yes I do remember the bailouts well and do remember all the Christmas Bonus's.
And believe it or not I don't blame only the liberals…it's a collective mess, but why not try and fix it instead of throwing money at it. Quit bailing them out.
+Dsherm1 You are an idiot who has been brainwashed by GOP rhetoric and Fox News analysts. Add a single (respectable) reference to any of your ridiculous claims and I will read it. Again, I am not a Democrat but I know which party has caused the most problems for this country. I have looked at a ton of economic statistics and our economy is far better off than it was during any of the years Dubya was President.
I do have issues with many things Obama has done too, but he has certainly been a far better President than Bush. And that's with a GOP who has refused to work with him at all during his two terms in office.
+Scott Jacobs
Don't call me your family names…I'll quit talking to you. I will not put up with your liberal name calling.
And the GOP won't work with me crybaby crap doesn't work with me…he uses it as a scapegoat every chance he gets. Let's talk about his Veto pen and not working with people. He's the problem.
This lady is kicking ass. Taking names now too.
+Dsherm1 Sorry, I call it as I see it and most of your comments have no actual facts to back them up. "The GOP won't work with me crap"??? Do you even pay attention to what Congress does? Shutting down the government, trying over 60 times to repeal the ACA, and as soon as they get the majority back what are the first two bills they try to pass? Cutting corporate taxes and pushing for the Keystone pipeline. Fuck the GOP and their bosses, the Koch brothers.
+Scott Jacobs
Yes…I pay attention and have watched it all. Shutting down the government was an act of desperation and a bad move. Some of those other issues…keystone pipeline is worth fighting for even if it's only temporary work. People need money and it would boost the economy of the states it's run through.
Obamacare needs to be repealed. It's a Tax and not healthcare. If it didn't have so much garbage tied to it I could call it healthcare.
Corporations are what puts people to work…if you don't believe that look at Detroit. When the auto industry went down so did everyone who worked for them.
+Dsherm1 Remember when you started whining about lies?
And yet, now you're standing here crying that the 93%, who were all lied to by their own White House, are "victims"?
LOL. Full circle. Must be really convenient to turn your moral compass on and off on a whim.
My moral compass points north. Where does yours point?
You're no better than I…so quit trying to portray yourself as such.
We just have different views..I think mine is right and you think differently. Pretty simple.
I should whine about lies…we have a president who faces Americans daily and lies to them.
Go ahead blame Bush it's the only answer you liberals have to Obama's shortcomings.
+Dan Matansas Awe poor baby. If that is how you feel about the society you live in and rely apon, i am glad you lost everything. You didn't deserve it anyway. Go set up your cardboard box… i mean your new home
+Moderate Atheist
Actually, I have homes, notice the plural, boy.
I did not lose everything, I never will. I work, and I outwork most.
But I am real, and so is my ethic, your mother's, I can speak of, but sadly I know not of yours.
+Dsherm1 _"Funny you like to blame the GOP for everything when the Democrats have been in charge of congress for the last 8 years. It's their policies you have been living under for the last 8 years not Republicans."_
That's a rather remarkable assertion, given that the GOP has had a majority in the House since 2010, and has ruthlessly used the lack of a Democratic super-majority to block a vast number of bills in the Senate since, oh, mid-2008 or so, as I recall.
I don't know that I have every done this before, but I am going to shut down comments for this thread, as the signal to noise ratio has become passingly small, and I'm already having to police comments for language I'd just as soon not have people in my circles have to read.