Okay, while I’m still in mourning about City of Heroes, I want to set down what’s made it so special, in a way that looks forward to the next MMO Margie and I get involved in.
Because, yes, while there are any number of pragmatic reasons why this provides a good opportunity to kick the habit and turn all those hours into something more “productive” … playing CoH has been such a very nice thing for Margie and me to do together that I want to maintain that experience. Though, obviously, sadly, in a different game.
So … here’s what I’m looking for the next thing (and, it goes without saying, I’m looking for specific suggestions from my vast reading audience as to what that next thing should be based on that).
1. It needs to be soloable and duoable. That’s how we play. If the significant content and advancement requires you to belong to a guild of some sort in order to access it, that’s not for us. I don’t mind mass events or the options to do such a thing, but this is about Me and Us time.
2. I’d prefer minimal grinding. One thing CoH got away from over the years were a lot of the “Go shake down 20 Council and find out their next target” kind of things. Those missions still existed, but they were a minimal part of the action in more modern content. That sort of busy-work was one of the things I disliked about LotRO, too (“Collect 30 Neek-a-breeker wings! Great. Now go out and collect 40 Fruit Bat Eyeballs!”). That leads into …
3. I want to be a big damn hero. This was another place where I always felt LotRO fell short. I never felt heroic, in the sense of being a person of extraordinary skill and ability, able to do incredible things (and faced with incredible things to do). Sure, I was a cool character with a sword, but I was fighting other guys who were also cool and who could take me down at any moment. I’m not asking for a walk in the park, but feeling extraordinary, not just another guy with a sharp axe, is important to me. Travel powers are definitely a part of that (something LotRO has partially solved with more pony-power options) — if I spend the majority of my time running across the landscape to the next content, I’m not being heroic, just persistent. And bored.
4. I’m an alt-aholic. The system has to have a high “paper doll” factor in terms of letting me try a wide array of both appearances and abilities. And I don’t want to be limited to just a few of those as my sole build(s) (“Man, I’d really like to try this character concept, but I only get four slots so I’d have to drop someone else.”) And, by definition, that means a high replayability factor in terms of content and approaches to tackling it.
5. Instanced missions are okay. In fact, preferred. One thing I always disliked with Champions Online was the “Okay, go defeat XYZ” … who is standing in the open and thus gets gacked by a series of people on the same mission and you have to stand around and wait for your turn to do it. Going through a mission door and being on our own to defeat the bad guy(s) is a big improvement, in my opinion.
6. Decent scaling. I seem to recall LotRO had (has?) this problem — a very narrow band of mission levels suitable for your character. Take one a level or two too hard, and you’re dead meat. A level or two too easy and it’s drop-dead boring. CoH, over the years, really added a lot of flexibility to tackle content above and below with appropriate scaling, as well as being able to set global difficulties for your character (bump up/down the opponents X levels, multiply the villains X much). As a sidebar to this, appropriately scaled missions are also important — Champs Online felt way too uneven, as though one mission was way easy, then the next nigh-impossible. I like a constant and consistent challenge.
7. Not so much with the crafting, please. Though I eventually got used to it on CoH and enjoyed playing games with it, in most systems crafting is (a) a time sync, (b) a way to keep you from exhausting content, and too often (c) a requirement for advancement. I don’t like any of those options. If I want to worry about a day job, I’ll worry about my real one. This was another place where LotRO failed for me.
8. I’m investing my time and, probably money. Likewise, please. So now I’m skittish about getting involved in a game only to have it yanked out from underneath me. Call it commitment anxiety. My inclination is for a game with something of a track record, and certainly from a company that’s doing well.
9. Trying things out. I don’t mind a subscription model. In fact, I’ve kind of liked that with CoH. I wouldn’t mind starting out on a F2P format and be able to graduate to a playing player once I’m convinced the game style is what I want. But I’m open to a variety of options, as long as it’s not too microstransactional (“Welcome to Level 5. Please deposit 35 BlastCorp Bucks to continue playing!”).
10. I’m looking for RP Lite. In line with the Solo/Duo thing (and the Alt-aholic thing) above, I don’t need something that’s highly social, but I would like to stand out a bit in a crowd, and have a backstory concept that’s reflected in how I can behave. I want to feel at least some level of role-playing in the design and naming of the characters. If every toon is simply a set of characteristics and standard abilities, and there’s a sense of “Oh yeah, well, every Blue Elf is like every other Blue Elf,” then it’s just mixing and matching numbers and not nearly as much fun.
I’m not particularly tied to any genre — I’ve done a lot of supers, obviously, but fantasy or SF or whatever are certainly viable settings.
I suspect it’s not going to be easy to find these things all in one bundle. They’re what I’ve loved most about CoH, and obviously no other game is going to have quite the same level set in these attributes. But, as I said, options and opinions are welcome.
Well…
SWTOR ranks on your scale (1 low, 10 high):
1: soloable is about 7, douable 8. Really the only things you will not be able to S/D are the 4 person heroics or the 4-16 person flashpoints/operations.
2: 6 the grinding is for the most part optional as “Bonus XP” for killing X baddies.
3: 10 One thing SWTOR does very well is make you feel like a hero, a little over the top at times.
4: 5 The hard limit of 8 alts is a bit of a annoying, but it might be one of those things that Microtransaction can fix like every other MMO.
5: 3 COX really was the only MMO out there that had that option and it worked great.
6: 6 Yet another thing that CoX and EQ2 did fantasically, but other MMO’s failed to even do. SWTOR is for the most part pretty good at this, but once you mission goes grey it is going to be very easy for you.
7: 8 I am dissapointed in crafting in SWTOR because it is way too frelling easy to do that everyone does it.
8: That is going to be a hard one to take care of in the long run in the gaming industry. Any MMO that lasts 5 to 10 years is going to be rare here on out.
10: RP sadly has pretty much gone the way of the dod unless you seek out a hard core RP guild on any MMO. RP servers are pretty much an in name only thing any more, and CoX and EQ2 did the best policing of names that i have seen so far.
If I may be so bold as to suggest the 800lb gorilla of the genre, now’s a good time to check out World of Warcraft. While it still suffers from some of the issues you mentioned (questing can still be a bit grindy), it’s improved a lot with the last expansion when they largely revamped the original game world (levels 1-60).
It does a much better job of making you feel like a hero, it’s solable/duoable all the way up to level 85 (soon to be 90), the crafting is relatively simple and entirely optional, you get XP for more than questing these days (collecting crafting mats gives XP as does PVP if you’re into that or you can level by doing dungeons without worrying about the quests), plus it’s doubtful it’s going away anytime soon.
They just dropped patch 5.0.4 which introduces all the changes to the game (new talent system, etc.) prior to the upcoming release of the latest expansion later this month which will introduce the Pandarian race and the Monk class.
Best of all if you want to try it out before buying and subscribing you can do so as they allow you to play up to level 20 (with some restrictions such as lack of access to the Auction House) for free. If you’re interested I’ll can send you a Recruit-A-Friend scroll (which would net me a month of free time if you decide to sign up) or you can just sign up for the free trial on your own.
Beyond that, most of the MMORPGs are Free to Play these days so the only cost of trying them out is a lengthy download.
I was going to suggest The Secret World as a new MMO that seems to be doing something very different from everyone else, but it looks like they just laid off half their staff so who knows how long it’ll be around? Though it is on sale via EA Game’s Original digital download service for half-off this weekend.
Thanks for the breakout, BD.
For the RP aspect, I don’t need (or even want, these days) hardcore RP or RP drama (let alone RP drama llamas). I would like to be able to say to myself, “This is Fred Smith, who had life circumstance X and goal Y” and have the appearance and abilities somehow reflect that — unlike, say, Real Life, where everyone looks more or less the same.
It’s going to be hard for any game, I suspect, to match CoX in that aspect, given the wide array of powers and the incredibly powerful costume maker. Plus, the genre lent it self to that sort of thing.
@Les, I’ve been reluctant to go anywhere near WOW — some very brief playtests, plus just hearing buzz about it, and the whole sense of Guild Uber Alles, makes me less than enthused.
On the other hand, it occurs to me that anything I’m duoing with my wife will be fun just for that. Even if there’s extensive bitching about the game involved.
Guilds are totally optional, though there are some nice benefits to being in one in WoW these days (e.g. a “mass resurrection” spell once the guild hits a certain level usable by any class).
That said, there are plenty of laid back guilds in the game. The one I’m in on Durotan (Alliance side) does raids and such regularly, but has never pressured me into participating in them if I don’t feel like it.
If you decide to check it out and want to play on my server, let me know and I’ll help you get started. There’s another server I play the horde side on (and which my guild also exists), but I’m not on that quite as much.
Thanks, Les.
follow up:
First off, there is not going to be the perfect MMO.
For me that would be taking all the good parts of CoX and EQ2 and creating a MMO.
All MMO’s have some sort of travel power system, some are better than others, but they are there. Old school ones have more and veried TP’s and of course based on the Genre. AoC had horses, and the ability to bind to certain areas (hub city, new area you are exploring, guild castle). EQ2 had way more than a game should have and it made travelling around fun and easy. WoW was progrssive and unless you have a Pali, easy for the most part. STO your ship was your travel power. CO had a nice Supes set of trvel powers. SWTOR is a lot like WoW where you walk, run, get a mount at 30ish, and speeders to get around the different zones.
As too paper dolls…
CO, AoC and STO had the BEST toon creator systems. WoW has the worst, SWTOR is a few steps above WoW, but since it was designed to be easy for WoW players, so is the toon creator.
GW2 really looks great on the toon creation from what I have seen.
Oh, I fully understand that I will never find perfection. Heck, I could find things to bitch about CoX, too.
But, like a baby duckling, I imprinted early, so my baseline is different from some other folks.
You’re best option is to try GW2. It’s new to everyone right now, there’s no subscription, and if GW is any indication, it’ll just go and go and go for ages — there’s a devoted playerbase coming in.
Point by point.
1. Soloable and duoable. Most any MMO is. I don’t know any that aren’t, unless you’re talking about end game or specifically designed-for-a-group content.
2. Grinding. That’s like saying “I prefer games with 70% more honor than average.” It’s a word that’s too subjective to be judges. I don’t feel like there’s any grinding in LotRO – most would disagree.
3. I want to be a big damn hero. Thing is, slowing down movement is how many MMOs deal with being thin on content — as they get more robust content, they make it easier to get around. Traveling in LotRO with up to something like 5 ‘home’ stones now, plus :instant: horse routes to anywhere and everything, is easy now, but most won’t be until they get old.
SWTOR makes you feel very tough and heroic. Pity about the everything-else-in-the-game. (IMO.)
4. I’m an alt-aholic. I don’t think most MMOs limit you much more per server than CoH. EvE is an exception, with one server, only three toons per account, only one of which can be training at any given time, but EvE isn’t a serious consideration for anyone at the Consortium. 🙂
5. Instanced missions are okay. They are also quite rare. SWTOR does it a little, but not much.
6. Decent scaling. LotRO’s gotten better at this, especially with any group content — all the group content scales from whatever-its-minimum-to-run-is, up to max level.
What it doesn’t do is scale YOU up to match the content, a la sidekicking, but to be fair no one does that.
7. Not so much with the crafting, please. Just ignore it. I’ve never played any MMO where crafting is anything but optional on an individual basis, and I’m including EvE in that, where (literally) nothing in the game exists if it’s not made by a player. Make money and buy the crap you need on the market. Craft if you feel like it. That said, Crafting in SWTOR is so easy it’s more like being a quest-giver for your sidekicks.
8. I’m investing my time and, probably money. Likewise, please. Any MMO is going to be a dice-roll at this point. 90% of them fail in the first year, and those that don’t eventually sunset (or are old enough to lack the features you want).
10. I’m looking for RP Lite. That’s just about finding like-minded people, or doing it for kicks. Landroval is an RP server on LotRO, but I avoid the RPs pretty studiously. CoH killed any inclination I have to RP in an MMO.
*your
Oh, and:
9. Trying things out: I refer you back to GW2 and it’s GW-like ‘come back whenever you like’ model. I dunno how they do it, but Guide Wars has never been subscription, making it the ultimate friends-with-benefits-casual-girlfriend of MMOs.
Perhaps as a palette cleanser, I’d suggest maybe some non-MMO games for a bit, but stuff you can play solo and then play the ‘multiplayer’ together after.
Portal and Portal 2 are EXCELLENT, for example. Top-notch stuff. Mass Effect 1 2 and 3 are great, though 1 is old and feels it a bit.
Thanks for the feedback, Doyce. It is appreciated.
(And sorry I didn’t read it before I came over today. We were out all day the 2nd …)
It really surprises me, given CoH’s age, that other MMOs haven’t taken advantage of some of the things CoH does. The things I love about COH and what I’m looking for:
1> Character customization. The one thing CoH got right that others still seem to fail at is the character customization. Just last night me and my girlfriend logged onto CoH to get as much of it in as we can before it goes bye bye and she had realized she hadn’t done the quest for her second costume slot on one of her characters. We were going to play together. But she spent about 90 mins designing her second costume. I’m sure we all have spent hours enjoying that and the pride we have when we get one that stands out.
Other MMOs today either offer little to no customization or make it part of the content you unlock. So far, I don’t think any other MMO has struck a good balance as CoH did.
2> Scalable content/enemy design. The fact that you can adjust the difficulty settings and that the size of your team will dictate your opposition in your instanced missions is really well done in CoH. One of the things I think SWTOR did right, and took from CoH, is the type of mobs you fight. In SWTOR, when you solo, you’ll take on groups of bad guys. Not just one or two(like WoW). You’ll fight 3 minions, or 2 minions and a Lt. And having a bit of a mix of their abilities makes the combat fun and sometimes challenging. I’m sure we all have early CoH memories of Tsoo Sorcs making for some crazy times back in the early days. Or those Sky Raider Engineers deploying their shield generators. I think that sort of design in the opposition and fighting multiple mobs even when soloing is what makes you feel “heroic.”
3> The sidekick/exemplar system. No one has done this better than CoH. And it amazes me this isn’t more of a standard in MMOs today. I realize with loot/item levels it can be a little tough, but I think its worth it. Really surprised me SWTOR didnt have this. The lore is even built in for this — master/apprentice.
For me, I think the closest game that’s out that will give me what I’m looking for is either SWTOR or DCUO. SWTOR will be getting dusted off soon. I enjoyed the game when it came out, but the most frustrating part of the game for me was it’s lack of a LFG tool. I really loved the questing, and it made no sense to me to force a player to stop the engaging questing/story line to go sit in the space station and spam LFG in the general chat.
@BrimstoneAshe:
1. Yes. CoH “Paper Dolls” were amazing. CO comes close (and, unlike many, I like the more cartoony look of CO characters), but I find the bits and bobs less organized (which is saying something) *and*, as you note, much more “like this? gotta buy it!” in nature. CoH was moving a bit to that model, but only with a small fraction of its costume pieces/sets. CO is the other way around.
2. Yes, yes, yes. My wife and I have (had) probably a dozen active alts that we played in CoH. And each was tuned a bit differently, depending on the nature of their powers and our playstyle with them. Worked beautifully. Granted, that was something they worked on and improved over time.
3. Another one that CoH improved over time until it became almost seamless.