D&D 5.5e Rules — Hiding and Cover and Surprise and Initiative

Some clearer rules on this would be great. Alas, things are fuzzier than ideal.

This post is just focusing on D&D 5.5e (2024) rules. This general category is so messy, I don’t dare try to simultaneously describe the 5e (2014) variants.

Some of this material is already covered (so to speak) in my posts on Cover and Surprise. At some point in time I should probably integrate it together, but, until then …

Surprise

5.5e significantly changed the Surprise rules. Gone is the “you’re frozen until your first turn, then you’re still gimped until your next turn” stuff, in exchange for being at Disadvantage on Initiative. 5.5e also tried to normalize the Hiding / Cover aspects of Surprise, in part by making being Hidden the functional equivalent (and called it by the name) of being Invisible (i.e., having the Invisible condition). Which sometimes makes for odd situations, but …

After a session where things got a bit complicated, I did a re-read of the 5.5e rules (links for all this are down below). The rules, as always, look straightforward, a framework that should make sense, whether it does or not. The devil, as always, is in applying it to an actual combat situation.

I’ve linked to some of the rules at the bottom of the post, and [footnoted] to them in what I’ve collected below.

At any rate, fundamentally Surprise happens under a combination of two conditions:

when a combatant is “caught unawares by the start of combat” [3] or, as phrased in the 5e rules, “doesn’t notice a threat.”
in a case where being covert (in movement / positioning (Stealth), or in behavior (Deception)) is better than a target’s awareness (spotting someone (Perception), or being aware of their motivation (Insight); this is likely a Passive check, since you only Actively try to perceive such things when you are already aware of the risk/threat of the situation, and so aren’t prone to Surprise because of the first condition).

That second condition is mechanical — dueling skills of various sorts. The first is a bit more subjective and narrative, and requires some adjudication. Can a guard who is watching for an attack be caught unawares? If you’re creeping down a dungeon corridor, looking for an ambush, are you aware that there is a threat (even if you don’t know it specifically)? How long can you be actively alert for such stuff (that guard might be flagging by the end of the third watch)? What if the type of combat or threat is itself unexpected (the goblins drop down through the illusory ceiling)?

That’s all why they pay DMs the big bucks.

Something that may tie into both of these aspects is Travel Pace[7]. This often comes up in overland travel from Point A to Point B, but can be applicable within a dungeon — and both affects some of the rolls above as well as the attitude: e.g., if the players say they are walking at a fast pace to get to the dungeon ahead, there are mechanical effect on their senses, but it’s also an implication they aren’t expecting an attack.

Walking Pace	Feet/min	MPH	Miles / day	Notes
Fast	400	4	30	DISadvantage on Percept, Survival, Stealth
Normal	300	3	24	DISadvantage on Stealth
Slow	200	2	18	ADVantage on Percept, Survival

Surprise is also individual — the Surprise status of each creature on one side or the other can vary depending on the above factors.

Our focus here is mostly on the Surprise that comes from an Attacker being physically Hidden, but bear in mind that it can be broader than that is useful.

Hiding = Invisibility

A potential Attacker can use the Hide action, making DC 15 Stealth check while out of the Opponent’s line of sight, and while[2] …

Heavily Obscured
behind Three-Quarter Cover
behind Total Cover

… to effectively become Invisible.[2] (The D20 check rolled by the person Hiding is the DC for someone to Perceive them[2]).

This can be for teeing up an ambush, or mid-battle sneaking about. To get all the advantages of being Hidden, though, you have to have explicitly taken the Hide action; otherwise you’re just getting protection from cover.

Rolling Initiative

First off, Initiative is rolled when combat starts.[4] Not after someone gets in the first blow or their sneaky alpha strike from cover, but when attack dice are about to be rolled.

If an Attacker is initiating the combat (“Okay, team, I’m going to be in front and cast Fireball!”), the Attacker gets (DM’s discretion) Advantage on their Initiative roll.[6] (This one is hidden in the DMG as an option, and is the sop to the “But nobody is supposed to move until I cast my spell” issue.) This rule holds regardless of being Hidden or Surprised or not (yes, the guy who throws the first punch in the bar brawl rolls Initiative on Advantage to do it), but often comes up in context of an ambush or bursting into the enemy’s room.
If an Attacker is Invisible (Hidden and unknown to be there by the target), the Attacker gets Advantage on their Initiative roll.[1]
If the Opponents are Surprised (they didn’t know the Attacker was there and weren’t in “expecting combat” mode), they roll Initiative with Disadvantage.[3,4]

So let’s say Bob wants to get the drop on an Orc heading off to sleep. He positions himself around a corner (in Total Cover), and explicitly Hides himself (makes sure nothing is showing, tries to stay quiet, etc.). The Orc figures the hallways is safe and isn’t expecting any surprises, and their Passive Perception isn’t enough to meet the Stealth roll Bob made when he Hid.

Bob gets Advantage on Initiative for starting things, and would also get Advantage on Initiative because he is (until he attacks) Invisible. Advantage only adds once, of course.

The Orc doesn’t know Bob is there, and has no reason to be worried, so they get Disadvantage on Initiative. If the Orc knew that Bob had run away in this direction, and were watching out for him, they would roll Initiative normally. Ditto if they heard a noise from ahead and advanced cautiously.

Results of Initiative

If, after Initiative is rolled, there are allies who go before the Attacker initiating combat, then if they want the Attacker to get that first strike off, they need to Dodge or Help (if that applies) or, more likely, Ready an action. (This seems counter-intuitive, as it seems to penalize quick-reflexes folks; a Readied action isn’t as robust or useful as one normally taken. But that’s how it goes; the alternative is to blow the plan for that initiating Attacker to actually initiate the attack.)

If, after Initiative is rolled, any of the Opponents (even Surprised ones) still get a better Initiative than the hidden Attacker, they are (on the honor system) aware something is about to happen and can, within limits, respond first. Effectively, they are reacting to the Attacker popping out of hiding, even if they can’t directly do anything about it this turn. Faster Opponents can Dodge, try to Perceive the hidden attackers, warn their fellows, throw up magical defenses, etc.

In other words, those Opponents are still reacting faster than the Attacker, even if they can’t see them or directly attack them (yet).

The faster Opponents could, theoretically, Ready an action to shoot anyone who shows up “where I heard that noise.” If the Attacker is effectively Hidden / “Invisible,” that Readied action would not go off until after the Attacker did their thing, because that attack (see below) is what technically drops the “Invisibility” they have.[2]

Okay, so that handles Initiative … how about actual attacks (and counter-attacks)?

Attacks from Hiding

If the Attacker is Invisible (Hidden and unknown to be there by the Opponent):

the Attacker gets Advantage on their Attack (this can be any time in the battle, not just on the first round)[1]
their Opponent attacks a still-Invisible target with (at best) Disadvantage.[1,5] If where the Opponent says they are attacking is not where their target is, the attack automatically misses.[5]

Note that if the “Invisibility” only comes from being behind Total Cover (the Attacker has not taken a Hide action, too):

the Attacker will not get Advantage for their attack
the Opponent can’t see them to target them in turn

The Attacker’s “Invisible” condition from Hiding ends immediately after an Attack roll (or a Verbal spell, or making a sound, or if the Opponent finds them).[2] (In other places it says after an “attack hits or misses,” but I think that’s effectively the same thing.[5])

Which, as written, implies that an Attacker with multiple attacks (e.g., Fighters at 5th Level) only get that Advantage to hit on their first attack roll, not on subsequent ones. The condition ends after an Attack roll, not an Attack action.
If the Attacker wants to get “Invisible” again, they must duck behind cover and do another Hide to regain that “Invisible” condition.[2] Just moving back behind Total Cover would give them physical protection, but the Opponent still knows they are there, so the Attacker won’t get Advantage on their next attack (“I know he’s behind that tree so I’m keeping an eye on that”).

Certain spell effects, like Greater Invisibility, can cause the Invisible condition to be instantly restored, or never actually lost, without having to Hide; these are a really annoying complications, just saying.

Net-Net

Is all this complex? Yeah, especially given player and DM cleverness and the wide variety of spaces and situations to which it could apply. Could it be simplified? Maybe, but only by handwaving more and more things that “should” be considered important in a combat.

I’ve tried to tie the material above to actual rules, but there is some DM interpretation going on. If you aren’t sure, discuss it with your DM first; they may have different interpretations than I do.

Would you like to know more?

Here are the rule links for the [footnotes] above.

D&D 5.5e Rules – Doors and Locks

Getting from here to there sometimes means going through a thing in-between.

Know the Rules Part of an ongoing series of 5.5e (2024) Rules notes.

This one is mostly written from a 5.5e (2024) perspective, as I needed to clarify all of this for a 5.5e game I was running. Plus, it seems like 5.5e does a bit better job of defining all this stuff, vs. an array of official and unofficial rules around how these things all work. If you’re not sure how it all works in 5e, you could do worse than adopting some of the (backwards-compatible!) 5.5e approaches.

What if I want to break a door?

If a door is barred or locked (always check first!), here’s how you can get through it by brute force. There are two options, one using magic, one using your bodily strength in some fashion.

Use the AC / HP for an Attack or (damaging) Magic action against a Medium door. (In theory, you could also use a physical attack against it, though as a DM I’d probably prefer you try with an axe, rather than with arrows.) And, no, the damage type is not spelled out — you can use Psychic as easily as Bludgeoning damages.
Use the DC for a Utilize action against a Medium door with a STR (Athletics) check.

Door Type	AC to attack	HP if attacked*	DC to Break Open with an Athletics check*
Glass	13	4	10
Wood	15	18	15
Stone	17	40	20
Metal	19	72	25

* for larger doors of this type, HP x2 or x3, DC + 5.

What if the door is locked?

Time to try and Pick That Lock!

Simple locks take 1 Action to try to pick
Complex locks take 1 Minute to try to pick

The DC against picking is based on the quality of the lock:

Inferior lock is DC 10
Good lock is DC 15
Superior lock is 20.

Locks can only be picked by someone using Thieves Tools. The basic roll is a DEX (Sleight of Hand) check against the quality DC.

Thieves Tools	DEX (Sleight of Hand)	Roll
Not Proficient	Not Proficient	Sleight of Hand
Proficient	Not Proficient	Sleight of Hand + Proficiency Bonus
Not Proficient	Proficient	Sleight of Hand (PB is baked in)
Proficient	Proficient	Sleight of Hand at ADVANTAGE

Note that this follows the 5.5e general rule pattern about tools and the skills using them. Note also that under those rules that it is possible to get Expertise (double Proficiency) in a skill, but not on a tool set.

What about a portcullis?

Portcullis Size	DC if Iron	DC if Wood
Medium (8′ tall x 5′ wide)	20	15
Large (10′ tall x 10′ wide)	25	20
Huge (20′ tall x 15′ wide)	30	25

If you can’t get to the winch, then the DC is what you need with a Utilize action for a STR (Athletics) check.

If you want to destroy the portcullis, use the AC and HP of a large Metal or Wooden door (above).

Note that targets within 5 feet of a portcullis have 3/4 cover (+5 AC) from attacks from the other side; if further away, they have Total Cover.

Secret Doors!

Difficulty to find:

Barely hidden secret doors are DC 10
Standard secret doors are DC 15
Well-hidden secret doors are DC 20.

A Search action will let you search a 10-foot square section of wall with a WIS (Perception) check against the door’s DC; success means you spotted the door and know the means to open it.

You can also use an INT (Investigation) check if the clues are visible (scrapes on the floor where the door has rubbed it, for example) but need to deduced from or understood.

D&D 5.5e Rules – Weapon Mastery!

How is a sword not a mace or a spear? Depends on how much work you want to do.

Part of an ongoing series of 5e (2014) and 5.5e (2024) Rules notes.

Something I often joke about here is how D&D is not a physics simulator, and, in fact, is a very mediocre tactical combat simulator. All games, more or less, are, both because drama is more exciting than reality, and because reality is really hard to simulate

One of the things that D&D 5e (2014) brought to the mix was the KISS principle. Gone was to be the crunchity-crunch-crunch of multiple bonuses and penalties on rolls from the 3.5e period. Gone was the slick but somewhat joyless tactical detail of 4e. Instead, 5e tried to keep it simple while at the same time making it fun.

By and large, not a bad job. Lots of abstractions, lots of handwaving about Advantage and Disadvantage, pretty good show.

5.5e (2024) for all its plusses and minuses, added a new element to combats by somewhat-popular demand — and which has turned out to be a lot more controversial than I would have expected.

Weapon Mastery!

A Longsword does 1d8 slashing damage.

A Flail does 1d8 bludgeoning damage.

A Morning Star does 1d8 piercing damage.

Are these the same?

Well, obviously not. A flail slams weights against its target. A longsword slices and dices (and pierces, but we’ll ignore that for D&D). A morning star pokes little pokey bits backed by weight into its victim. The damage type is different — bludgeoning vs slashing vs piercing — but there is very, very little in the rules were that actually means anything (skeletons being vulnerable to bludgeoning weapons is the only thing that comes to mind).

Abstraction is useful, even necessary, to deal with real-world details that could easily overwhelm. But too much abstraction is equally problematic. I once abandoned a super-heroes gaming system because there was no mechanical, in-game difference between someone attacking with a telekinetic blast, jet of flame, or lightning bolt. The same, to an extent, is true for weapons and their use. If a flail = a longsword = a morning star in every way that counts except for your character picture — is that too much abstraction?

5.5e says, “Yeah, let’s see what we can do about that.”

Weapon Mastery?

The Weapon Mastery rules consist of two parts: What It Is and How To Get It

What Is Weapon Mastery?

Weapon Mastery is an additional aspect to weapons that certain characters can get by becoming “masters” of that particular weapon and learning to use its more interesting features.

If you look at the Weapons table, you can see the Mastery column that indicates how a trained user of the weapon can do something extra. That something extra, as spelled out by the rules, includes (with some weapon examples):

Cleave: Once a turn, on a hit, the attacker does a follow-on attack on another target within 5 feet of the first and within reach. Damage on that second attack does not include the Ability modifier (unless negative). [Greataxe, Halberd]
Graze: If the attack misses, it still does damage equal to the attacker’s Ability modifier. [Glaive, Greatsword]
Nick: When the attacker make an extra attack because the weapon is Light, they can do it as part of your Attack action, not using up their Bonus Action. [Scimitar, Dagger]
Push: On a hit, the attacker can push the target 10 feet away if size Large or smaller. [War Hammer, Heavy Crossbow]
Sap: On a hit, the target has Disadvantage on its next attack roll. [Longsword, Morning Star]
Slow: On a hit with damage, the target’s Speed is reduced by 10 feet until your next turn (no stacking). [Club, Light Crossbow, Longbow]
Topple: On a hit, the target makes a CON Save vs DC (8 + attacker’s Ability Modifier + attacker’s Proficiency Bonus) or go Prone. [Maul, Quarterstaff]
Vex: On a hit with damage, the attacker has Advantage on the next roll against that creature before the end of their next turn. [Short Bow, Rapier]

How Do I Get Weapon Mastery?

Various martial classes (Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue) automatically get at a Level 1 the Weapon Mastery class feature. This lets you use the Mastery feature of some (the number varies by class) simple or martial weapons of your choice. You can swap out for another one of these each Long Rest. For some classes, the number of Weapon Masteries increases as levels go up.
The Weapon Master feat gives you an ASI and (to the point) lets you use the Mastery of one simple or martial weapon of your choice (which can be swapped around after any Long Rest) if you have Proficiency for it. This basically opens up the ability to non-martials.

Pros and Cons

The plus and minus of Weapon Mastery as a game rule is the same: It’s one more thing to do stuff with.

As a plus? It sets apart martials a bit more; it allows additional tactical elements in combat; it improves flavor by keeping flails and longswords and morning stars from all being the same.

As a minus? It slows down combat while tactical decisions are made (do I want to use the push-back? what path? does that mean it would be better to attack this other opponent? etc.); the mapping between the Masteries and the actual weapon is a bit sketchy, so the verisimilitude is strained.

I don’t have a net-net here, until I see how it works in actual gameplay. To the extent that it adds some additional flavor to folks like Fighters (beyond “I hit him with my sword. And again. And again.”) it seems like it would be a good thing, but it’s easy to understand why some folk think it represents a creeping re-complexity for D&D combat.

D&D 5e/5.5e Rules – Encumbrance and Carrying Capacity!

He ain’t heavy, he’s my backpack. Which is really heavy.

Know the Rules Part of an ongoing series of 5e (2014) and 5.5e (2024) Rules notes.

Everyone hates Encumbrance rules

That’s a generalization, so suspect, but in my multiple decades of playing and DMing D&D and other FRPG / TTRPGs, I have yet to find anyone who wants to keep track of all the things they are carrying and their weight and have that impact how their character performs. Conan and Legolas and [insert fantasy hero here] never worries about Encumbrance — why should I?

The only people who have any use for Encumbrance are GMs, as a check against player characters carrying around golf bags full of specialized magic swords (“Hmmm, a Flametongue for this encounter, I think”) and, more importantly, on player characters stripping the Temple of the Really Rich Lich of its 500,000 gold pieces and its diamond altar and the three giant jade statues with gems the size of toaster ovens for eyes.

In other words, Encumbrance is a tool for managing edge cases and, in some cases, exploits, and, frankly, can be skipped unless those come to pass.

Indeed, the D&D Rules themselves actually make that case. For 5.5e (2024), the PHB says on p. 20:

Carrying Objects: You can usually carry your gear and treasure without worrying about the weight of those objects. If you try to haul an unusually heavy object or a massive number of lighter objects, the DM might require you to abide by the rules for carrying capacity in the rules glossary.

The game should be fun. If a mechanic stops it from being fun, ignore the mechanic. But if lack of a mechanic stops it from being fun, be ready to use it when you need to.

So how about the rules?

The basic rules for Encumbrance are the same between 5e (2014) and 5.5e. The only difference in significance is that 5e calls it Encumbrance and 5.5e calls it Carrying Capacity.

The underlying numbers, though, are the same, just differing i how they are presented. 5e gives some formulae and then a series of exceptions and extrapolations. 5.5e presents a table, which is a much clearer way of doing it, so that’s what I’ll use here.

Creature Size	Carry	Drag / Lift / Push *
Tiny	STR x 7.5 lbs.	STR x 15 lbs.
Small/Medium	STR x 15 lbs.	STR x 30 lbs.
Large	STR x 30 lbs.	STR x 60 lbs.
Huge	STR x 60 lbs.	STR x 120 lbs.
Gargantuan	STR x 120 lbs.	STR x 240 lbs.

^{*If you are dragging / lifting / pushing a weight greater than you can carry, your Speed drops down to 5 feet. If the weight is beyond the D/L/P level, you cannot move it.}

That’s pretty much it: Size (basically your ability to balance a heavy load) and STRength (your ability to overcome inertia and gravity).

The numbers calculate the same between both 5e and 5.5e, so easy peasey.

(The variant rule in 5e, PHB 176, abut encumbering and heavy encumbering and their effects on your die rolls and speed, are not carried over in 5.5e, which is probably a good thing.)

The rules don’t explicitly state it, but presumably burdens can be shared. The math probably gets a bit dodgy, but I would let STRength be additive here, with some sort of proportion around the creature sizes of the folk sharing in the carrying.

Don’t ask me to factor in how having a wheeled setup (e.g., a cart, rollers, etc.) affects all of this if it’s the players pushing/pulling it.

A bit of science (maybe)

In real life, based on military studies:

Humans can carry around up to 20-25% of their body mass without incurring significant additional fatigue in combat.
Outside of combat, it can go up to 30%.

I’m not suggesting using that to craft your own Encumbrance rules, though — because everyone hates Encumbrance rules.

D&D 5e/5.5e Rules – Exhaustion!

Slaying dragons is tough. So are 12-hour days and burning heat and bitter cold. And those have consequences.

Know the Rules Part of an ongoing series of 5e (2014) Rules notes. See the end of the post for notes on 5.5e (2024) rules.

Exhaustion is a special set of escalating conditions that occur when rest or nutritional intake are inadequate, or when environmental conditions (heat, cold) are life-threatening.

Exhaustion consists of 6 levels:

Level	Effect (Cumulative)
1	DISADvantage on Ability Checks
2	Speed halved
3	DISADvantage on attack rolls and Saves
4	Hit point maximum halved (HP reduced, if necessary, to the new max)
5	Speed reduced to 0
6	Death

Yeah, not fun. The term “death spiral” literally fits here, since each level of Exhaustion can make it more difficult to remove oneself from the causes of the Exhaustion.

These effects are cumulative, e.g., a creature at Exhaustion level 2 has its Speed halved and a DISADvantage on Ability Checks.

If a creature that already has a level of Exhaustion suffers another effect that causes Exhaustion, its current level goes up by the number described.

A creature suffers the effect of its current level of exhaustion as well as all lower levels. For example, a creature suffering level 2 exhaustion has its speed halved and has disadvantage on ability checks.

Effects that remove Exhaustion reduce the level as they describe. When Exhaustion drops below 1, the creature is no longer exhausted.

A Long Rest will reduce Exhaustion by 1 level, as long as the resting creature has been able to eat and drink. Being raised from the dead also reduces Exhaustion by 1, though that’s kind of the hard way to do it.

Okay, how does this change in 5.5e?

Though the 5e (2014) rules are pretty simple, 5.5e (2024) makes them even simpler.

Exhaustion is cumulative / stackable. You still die if your Exhaustion level is 6. When you have any level of Exhaustion:

Your D20 Test rolls are reduced by (2 x elevel).
Your Speed is reduced by (5′ x elevel).

So, if you are at Exhaustion Level 3, your D20 rolls (attacks, saves, ability checks) are all reduced by 6, and your Speed is reduced by 15 feet per turn.

Exhaustion can be alleviated by finishing a Long Rest, which removes 1 level. When you reach level 0, you are no longer Exhausted.

D&D 5e/5.5e Rules – Conditions!

This shortcut for describing bad things that can happen to you is pretty handy.

Know the Rules Part of an ongoing series of 5e (2014) Rules notes. This also covers 5.5e (2024) rules.

D&D 5e uses common Conditions as a modular way of showing the results of various attacks, spells, environmental issues, etc. By defining what it means to be “Blinded,” the rules can say that Condition is applied to someone without explaining what it means.

5.5e (2024) continues this, but modifies some of the Condition meanings, as well as adding a few new ones. See here and here.

In the table below, 5e (only) notes are in black, 5.5e (only) notes are in red, and notes common in both editions are in blue.

Conditions in 5e and 5.5e — Click to embiggen

Note that for the Incapacitated-related action restrictions, while 5e did not specify “no Bonus Actions” in the Condition descriptions, elsewhere in the rules it did note that if Actions were not allowed, it was the same for Bonus Actions. The notes of this sort in italics are inheriting it from the Incapacitated Condition.

Note also that Exhausted is another type of Condition, and is the only one with effect that can stack.

D&D 5e/5.5e Rules – Weapon Juggling!

Drawing and sheathing weapons, whilst changing what weapon you are using, gets a little … complicated.

Know the Rules Part of an ongoing series of 5e (2014) Rules notes. See the end of the post for notes on 5.5e (2024) rules.

This is one that the tables of our gaming group generally do wrong — or, at least, not Rules as Written (PHB 190) for quite some time: what it takes, action-wise, to change from one weapon to another.

When describing what you can do on your turn, the rules say:

You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action. For example […] you could draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to attack. If you want to interact with a second object, you need to use your action.

And, under the rule on interacting with objects around you, it says:

draw or sheathe a sword

In other words, you can on any given turn, for free, (a) draw a weapon, or (b) sheathe/put away a weapon … but not both. This means the (very common) “Hmmm, with which of my array of weapons am I attacking with on this turn?” maneuver doesn’t work (RAW).

Round 1 – I plonk the bad guys with my bow.
Round 2 – Ooh, a bad guy is in my face, I stab him with my sword.
Round 3 – I shoot the guy across the room with my bow.
Round 4 – I charge in and stab that guy with my sword.

Nope. Essentially, switching weapons takes a full Action (putting away one weapon for free, Use an Object for your Action to draw the other one), meaning no attack that round.

This also complicates life for thrown weapon players. If drawing one of your throwing daggers takes up your free object interaction, then even if you have multiple attacks for your Attack action, you won’t have a way to draw additional daggers / shuriken / etc.

A couple of ways around this if you want a quick weapon change (one-way):

Don’t put your weapon away. Just drop it (as you would a torch), which takes no time, and then lets you use your free interaction to draw your new weapon. Except in exceptional circumstances, there’s no call to worry about damage to the weapon. Dropping something takes no no time, and then you can draw your other weapon.
Getting that weapon back to use again in the battle seems like it would be dodgy, but the rules do let you pick something up just as easily as drawing from a sheathe, for that free object interaction. Of course, if you have to flee the battle, the weapon might be left behind. Or, more seriously, the bad guys could grab the weapon you dropped, too.
You can also, if you really don’t want to lose your weapon and maintain maximum flexibility, do something along the lines of (Turn 1) Attack-Sheathe then (Turn 2) Draw-Attack as a way of switching weapons, but it’s not something you can do every turn, and it does leave you empty-handed (for Opportunity Attacks) elsewhere in that turn.
Rogues (Thieves) can use Fast Hands on their Bonus Action to Use An Object. That totally works for this (free action to put away a weapon, FH>UAO to draw a new one, then Attack). That’s doubtless why Legolas took a couple of levels of Rogue at one point.

Frankly, all of this strikes me as Not Fun. Which is why we’ve tended to drop this from our games, as DMs are allowed to do. But that has some consequences. The design idea behind this restriction, among other factors, seems to be

Drawing that distinction between archery fighters and melee fighters, and balancing between them (archery fighting is generally considered a bit OP in 5e; this means archery fighters dealing with guys getting in their faces have to decide between retaining their bow and being at a Disadvantage for shooting at folk at 5 feet, or switching weapons and being slowed down after their attackers are gone before resuming plonking at range). It reduces the homogeneity of folk swapping instantly between being ranged fighters and melee fighters.
It also breaks the “video game weapon-swap” meme a bit.
And it addresses the RL aspect that sheathing a sword and unlimbering a bow and drawing and shooting really does take more than six seconds (though, of course, RL considerations only go so far).

Lastly, of course, there are Feats and Sub-Class Features that explicitly allow faster drawing / sheathing of weapons; playing without that restriction renders them less useful. (I.e., the game is already built around the restriction, so removing the restriction theoretically unbalances things.)

Would you like to know more?

dnd 5e 2014 – Drawing and sheathing a weapon in 5e, and the actions required – Role-playing Games Stack Exchange

Weapon jugging in 5.5e

5.5e (2024) shakes things up a bit here, by explicitly (PHB Appendix C, p. 361, and the Free Rules) allowing a draw or sheathe/stowing of a weapon as part of an attack within the Attack action, either before or after an attack, and not necessarily with the same weapon.

Equipping and Unequipping Weapons. You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action. You do so either before or after the attack. If you equip a weapon before an attack, you don’t need to use it for that attack. Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from a sheath or picking it up. Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it.

This lets you juggle weapons much more easily, especially as you get, e.g., Extra Attack, coming along.

It also appears that this Equipping / Unequipping rule is distinct from the Thrown property on weapons in 5.5e, which separately notes you can draw-and-throw as part of the attack. That means you could (if you can attack twice during your Attack action:

Attack 1:
- Attack with my sword.
- Sheathe my sword (Unequipping) for free after that first attack.
Attack 2:
- Draw-and-throw a dagger
- Draw my sword again.

Note that the previous free “interaction” from 5e has been, if not dropped, then scattered a bit. There is now an explicit Utilize Action for when an object requires an action to use it. If you are doing something with an object as part of a different Action, that interaction should be free, as with the Equipping / Unequpping text above.

That said, it does still exist, noted under Interacting with Things in combat:

You can interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe.
If you want to interact with a second object, you need to take the Utilize action. Some magic items and other special objects always require an action to use, as stated in their descriptions.
The DM might require you to use an action for any of these activities when it needs special care or when it presents an unusual obstacle. For instance, the DM might require you to take the Utilize action to open a stuck door or turn a crank to lower a drawbridge.

It’s unclear to me if you can do that free Interaction for an initial draw/sheathe of a weapon, which would make things even more flexible.

D&D 5e/5.5e Rules – Wands and Attacks!

Is attacking someone with a wand the same as casting a spell? Is it an attack? Or is it something else?

Know the Rules Part of an ongoing series of 5e (2014) Rules notes. See the end of the post for notes on 5.5e (2024) rules.

Use of a wand in combat is not an Attack, or a Weapon Attack, or anything you could put into the chain of attack actions that a higher level martial character (like a Fighter) can use.

The Magic Missile wand, for example (and other wands use similar language), says:

While holding it, you can use an action to expend 1 or more of its charges to cast the magic missile spell from it.

Using a wand is an Action (more specifically, a Use an Item Action). You get one Action per turn (and one Bonus Action and one Reaction), with very few exceptions.

This doesn’t come into play with the Fighter’s Extra Attack feature at higher levels. While the nomenclature is confusing, that lets a fighter do multiple attacks within a single Attack Action (it isn’t adding to the number of Actions, it’s adding to the, if I can coin the phrase, sub-actions under the Attack sort of Action).

I.e., a higher level Fighter may be able to swing a sword at an opponent three times in a round, but they can still only fire off a wand a single time.

Using a wand also not casting a spell. That is a particular type of action (quite literally, the Casting a Spell Action). If it were, then it would affect the limitations of only one leveled spell cast per turn. If a magic user uses a wand, they can still cast any level spell is cast as a Bonus Action.

The edge case exception here is that Action Surge gives a Fighter an extra Action — which Action could, in fact, be used for Using a [Magic] Item. I.e., getting two shots off the Magic Missile wand.

Wands and 5.5e

Things are mostly the same under the 5.5e (2024) rules, though with slightly different nomenclature.

Using a wand (or any magic item) is done as the newly named Magic Action, as is spellcasting and the like. Unfortunately, the new rules also are quite clear that you cannot use Action Surge to take an extra Magic Action, so we’re back down to a single use of the wand per turn.

On the other hand, allowing use of a wand as a Magic Action still doesn’t forestall using a leveled spell via a Bonus Action or Reaction (5.5e calls them “slotted spells”).

D&D 5e/5.5e Rules – Surprise!

Ambushes and surprises are a normal part of D&D sessions. How are they handled in the current rules?

Know the Rules Part of an ongoing series of 5e (2014) Rules notes. See the end of the post for notes on 5.5e (2024) rules.

Since it comes up periodically and I Here are my notes on how Surprise works in D&D 5e — at our table, at least, given the complexities of Active vs. Passive skills and variations under different DMs.

When Does Surprise Happen?

Surprise occurs when two parties (1+) meet and one of them is unaware of the other until action has begun.

Two thoughts on this:

A situation where there is obvious risk can’t engender surprise unless an attack comes from a completely unexpected direction. If are aware of danger, and are taking normal precautions for it, you cannot easily be surprised (you can be ambushed, but you won’t suffer the consequences of surprise).
Trying to be and stay aware has limitations. Even if you know you are in a combat zone, you can only spend so much time and energy watching for bad guys above, below, and in all directions.

Note that “action” usually means “combat,” given D&D’s proclivities, but it doesn’t have to.

The basics are encapsulated thus (broken into points for clarity):

So what happens when the parties meet?

The PHB says (broken into points):

The DM determines who might be surprised.

(Though he’ll try to be fair about it and as impartial as possible.)

If neither side is trying to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other.

E.g., “You round the corner and there is a party of dwarves walking toward you. Both sides stare at each other for a moment … but after that joint moment of, yes, startlement, each party remains on an even footing with each other.”

Or it’s even, both sides are approaching the corner, chatting with each other, hobnailed boots clattering, and they become aware of something around the corner at about the same time. In either case, surprise is moot.

Otherwise, the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding [or otherwise trying to be stealthy] with the Passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side.

The caveat I added is important; the rules (and a lot of discussion) has to do with one party laying in wait for the other, but it could as easily be trying to creep up on another group. There’s also sort of an arbitrariness here — it’s easy to think of a situation where both sides are trying to be stealthy while listening for trouble … the thief sneaking up on a corner while a guard is waiting for someone to step around the corner, but is unaware of when it will happen. Who gets to make the Stealth check vs the Perception check? Hmmmmm …

Also, note that comment on Passive Perception. We’ll get back to that.

Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter. […] A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren’t.

There’s a bit of artifice here. While there is a remarkable amount of argument about “a threat,” essentially it means that if you hear any of the orcs who are laying in wait ahead, sufficient to put you on your guard, you will not be surprised by any of them — even, arguably, by the orcish assassin coming up from behind (because there’s no facing, so your presumed awareness is 360° once you’re on the alert).

This last is is important, and is further clarified in the Sage Advice Compendium :

You can be surprised even if your companions aren’t, and you aren’t surprised if even one of your foes fails to catch you unawares.

Surprise, then, is an individual thing for characters (and, to a more limited degree, for opponents): I, as a character, have to detect any of the other side to not be surprised (if I hear one person’s chain mail jingling, I become alert and won’t be surprised). But my not being surprised doesn’t affect my fellow players.

That can seem kind of weird, depending on the timing. But if we’re walking into a trap, my detecting someone is deemed a last-second thing; I can’t shout out, “Hey, it’s goblins! Don’t be surprised!” (Though circumstances can allow that — I’m trying to spot something on the trail ahead, and there’s a glint of metal three switchbacks up the hill … I am allowed to warn my friends in that case.

How Does Surprise Get Determined?

This starts getting into that whole Active and Passive Skill thing.

Active Skills are when you roll 1d20 and add your Ability and Skill Proficiency scores. They represent an active effort on your part (“I’m trying to do X”).
Passive Skills are just “what you do most of the time,” and they are served by basically replacing that d20 roll with a 10 (i.e., making it a perpetual average role).

Some DMs out there argue that it also represents the minimum you can get on an Active Skill roll, but I disagree; actively looking for things can allow someone to get distracted (while I’m focusing on telling whether that glint ahead on the trail is steel or a shiny rock, I miss the tripwire across the path I might otherwise have seen).

(See more on Passive Perception here.)

The problem with Passive Skills is that they are meant to represent two things: (1) the “average” background ability and (2) a way for the DM to save time. Rather than have everyone roll Perception (or the roll it themself behind the screen), it’s far easier (and less alerting to the players) for the DM to know that Bob’s Passive Perception is 12, so they will always see a hidden thing with DC10, and always miss one with DC15, unless they are actively searching.

Easier, but kind of dull. “Oh, this floor of the dungeon appears to be populated by DC10 traps. Bob strolls through it with no chance of being caught by any of them.”

And the “easy” aspect is dubious in Roll20 (or any VTT): I can click on a pre-set macro and roll everyone’s Active Perception any time I want. Not only is it hidden from the players, but it allows for variation — someone other than the highly perceptive Rogue can spot the trap once in a while (though, on average, it’ll still be the highly perceptive Rogue), and it means that if the highest Passive Perception is 15, DC20 traps aren’t automatic hits.

As a general rule, and for DM convenience, the “who rolls this, the Players or the Monsters” is usually focused on the Players (which is more fun for them, but also a lot easier for the DM). So a way to do this is that the Orcs, as they lay in wait, all use their Passive Stealth (effectively the DC number), while the Players all roll their Active Perception (or the DM rolls it for them) — or, if the ambush is on the other foot, the Orcs all use their Passive Perception and the Players all roll their Active Stealth. While the bad guys relying on Passives is kind if dull, it’s much simpler.

Two examples:

Characters Surprising Monsters

E.g., “Hey, here come some monsters, lets ambush them!” (Or perhaps, “There’s a monster camp up ahead, let’s creep up on them.”)

In its most basic form, the players prepare their ambush, and each rolls a Stealth check. It gets compared to the Passive Perception of the target monsters. The problem here is that the big fighter wearing plate mail is always going to have a crap Stealth roll, meaning the monsters (who all have the same Passive Perception) will always hear them.

An alternative, especially if the party has a chance to collaborate and plan and are aware of what the bad guys are doing, is to roll a Group Check (PHB 175, and more written here):

When a number of individuals are trying to accomplish something as a group, the DM might ask for a group ability check. In such a situation, the characters who are skilled at a particular task help cover those who aren’t.

To make a Group Ability Check, everyone in the group makes an Active Ability Check. If at least half the group succeeds, the whole group succeeds. Otherwise, the group fails. That lets the stealthy Rogue counter the noisy Fighter (“Pssst — watch out for that twig you’re about to step on!”). The success usually has to be against a unitary number/difficulty, though, e.g., the Passive Perception of the opposition.

Group Checks can be used for anything, but they’re really designed for when a single individual failure would mean the whole group fails.

Monsters Surprising Characters

This sounds like it should be the same thing, and, ideally, it is, but pragmatically, it’s usually handled a little differently.

So, for example, rather than the DM rolling (Active) Stealth for each of the monsters (fine for one or two, a real problem with twenty), the suggestion is to use the Passive Stealth (10 + DEX bonus + Stealth bonus).

The only problem with using the Passive Stealth there is that a Player who misses (either Passive Perception or an Active Perception roll) misses against all of them, and someone who makes the needed number succeeds against all of them. Unfortunately, that’s the kind of abstraction that is inevitable in this kind of simulation.

Using Active Perception rolls for the Players is probably better (and, if the DM has a macro set up for it, easy).

What Happens When Someone Is Surprised?

Pre-5e there was the concept of a “surprise round” — a round in which the surprisers get to act, and the surprised don’t.

5e changed this a bit. When the first action of an encounter takes place, Initiative gets rolled by everyone (even folk who are surprised). If you are deemed surprised, it means you:

cannot Move or take an Action (including a Bonus Action) on your first turn
cannot React until after your first turn

So the band of goblins gets the drop on all your party. Everyone’s initiative rolled and likely intertwined, but as each party member’s turn comes up in the first round, they cannot do anything during during that turn. But once each their turns has come up (and been squandered as they recover from surprise) they can React (e.g., take an Opportunity Attack, cast Shield, etc.).

E.g. Susan and Bob surprise Goblins 1 and 2. They all roll Initiative, and it goes in the order Susan, Goblin 1, Bob, Goblin 2.

Susan runs past Goblin 1 (who cannot React with an Opportunity Attack because they are surprised) and stabs Goblin 2.
Goblin 1’s turn comes up; they cannot take any Move or Action and just stand there, agog with surprise.
Bob decides to finish off Goblin 2. He runs past Goblin 1 … but since Goblin 1’s turn this first round has passed, Goblin 1 Reacts, taking an Opportunity Attack to stab Bob.
Goblin 2’s first turn comes up; they, too, cannot take any Move or Action … but once their turn is over, if Susan tries to run back to help Bob, Goblin 2 can try an Opportunity Attack, too. And when Goblins 1 and 2 come up in the next round, they will be Moving and Acting as normal.

Would you like to know more?

Surprise in 5.5e (2024)

We’ll evaluate at a later time all of the Active/Passive stuff above (the stuff that determines if there is surprise). The meat here is how the effects of surprise

Surprise in 5.5e has been significantly simplified — maybe a bit too much.

Surprised creatures roll Initiative at Disadvantage.

That’s it. No special Surprise Round. No differentiating between types of actions. Roll Init at Disadvantage. Quick characters will (likely) still be pretty high in the Initiative order (but maybe not).

Though it’s worth noting that if the attackers in ambush are successfully (through Hide (with Stealth) or Invisibility) hidden, they get Advantage on the Init roll. Which widens the gap in Init still more.

The upshot of this, though, is that Surprise matters a bit less. Everyone will get to do something Round 1; you won’t have surprisers who effectively get two attacks in, which, in an Action Economy, can be deadly. This is a Good Thing if it’s your party being surprised; it’s a Bad Thing if you’re doing the surprising.

Arguably, this almost takes too much of the sting out of Surprise. The surprisers will still get the first blows in, but the surprised will spring back quickly.

It will be interesting to see how folk end up in their evaluation of it.

Lurching toward D&D 2024 (5.5e)

Some thoughts on the new D&D semi-edition.

So I’ve been neglecting my work on this website for a while, and want to play a little catch-up, especially as our gaming group starts encountering the new semi-edition of D&D.

Branding Past

First, some nomenclature. The new semi-edition was originally called “One D&D,” so as to imply that it’s the system we would have forever. For some reason, that was then changed to calling it “D&D 5th edition (2024),” with the previous version now being referred to as “D&D 5th edition (2014)” (the parentheses indicating the year it first came out).

This is cumbersome, so most references are to just “2024” vs “2014.”

Personally, I think this is still kind of confusing, for two reasons:

“2014” and “2024” look very similar. They are the same length, 75% the same characters, and the only difference is in the same place. Easy for the eye to mistake them, and I find myself doing that almost every time.
These are not the same game.

Not that they aren’t very similar, mind you. And there is a very rough comparability between them. And you can do some mixing and matching — with work — between the systems. But the implication that these are both “5th edition” is a pleasant fiction design to deflect accusations that WotC just wants to sell more books.

So I’ll be generally using the alternate terminology that a number of sites have adopted of referring to the older semi-version as 5e and the new semi-version as 5.5e (see keen little icon I drew up to the right).

So from what I have read (and which we are now encountering in the Real World), here are the answers to some basic comparability questions.

Some questions

Can I use 5e characters in a 5.5e campaign?

In theory, yes, though there is a sense that 5e characters are a bit less powerful and usable than 5.5e, so doing a character built in 5e as a 5.5e character, without making any other changes, it’s suggested to just give them an extra feat.

But … it’s also clearly stated that if you run a 5e character in a 5.5e campaign, you really need to use as many of the 5.5e rules as possible; a 5e character in a 5.5e campaign must use the 5.5e rules on Surprise and Inspiration, etc. Just like a running an old 1950s Ford operating on a 2025 freeway, you can do it, but finding leaded fuel and a mechanic that can service it, etc., might be difficult, plus you run risks with not having a third brake light or daytime headlamps, let alone full-blown seat belts front and back (which you might be required to install after the fact). It’s a bit hazy what to do as your 5e character levels up — should they use 5e leveling rules for their class, or 5.5e?

An alternate option is to rebuild your 5e character in 5.5e. This is probably the cleanest solution, especially if you try to be diligent about keeping a similar growth path and set of options (which hopefully haven’t been annoyingly nerfed in 5.5e). It’s biggest advantage is that there is no question but that it is a 5.5e character when you are done, and you can easily move on from there.

UPDATE: In revising all of my 5e rules posts to also reflect 5.5e rules, my overall analysis is that while most of the major game subsystems are the same (sometimes a bit simplified), the biggest changes are in the details: Spells, Feats, etc. Any conversion from a 5e character to 5.5e is supposed to use the latter’s rules, which means reviewing all those spells very carefully and seeing what you maybe need to tweak.

Some sites that go into changes between the semi-editions:

Notable changes in 2024 D&D – Payton.Codes – highlights
Quick Reference: D&D 2024 Rule Changes – Dice Dungeons – highlights
DnD 5e to 2024 DnD Transition Guide and Change Log: Everything That’s Different in the New 2024 Player’s Handbook – extensive notes
Summary of D&D 2024 Rules Issues : r/KibblesTasty – extensive notes, focused on problems in the updated rules (and noting where they have been cleaned up in errata)
DnD quietly axed a stack of optional rules from its DM’s Guide – a number of optional rules that have vanished in the new DMG.
[OC] 5e 2014/2024 Conversion Guide – UPDATED! : r/DnD – some clever diagrams of how to convert 5e characters to 5.5e characters.

What if I am bringing over from 5e, or using from 5e, a class or subclass that 5.5e doesn’t support yet?

One of our players wants to run an Artificer in a new campaign. Artificers haven’t been formally added to the 5.5e rules yet (a play test draft has been released, but with unpleasant, I am told, differences from 5e, and further changes are expected until the new class is published). The same can be true for certain subclasses.

The guidance is if you are building fresh, you take the manual process of building the character as 5.5e one, with timing of class features as in 5.5e (subclasses always come in at 3rd level), but adding the spells and (sub)class features that 5.5e uses.

If converting over from 5e character, and you don’t want to rebuild the character … the rough guidance is to just give them an extra Feat. Talk with your DM.

What if I have a 5e character of a race (species) that hasn’t been written up for 5.5e yet?

The guidance here parallels that of class/subclasses that haven’t been converted over yet. Go ahead and use the 5e race with its features, but build it under 5.5e rules (regarding stat bumps, backgrounds, when species features come in, etc.). Talk with your DM first, of course. When WotC sells you a new book down the line with the revised version of the species, decide whether to backfill the new changes, or just stick with “classic.” It’s not going to break the game.

The exception here is for races that will not be converted, in particular, hybrids or “half-” creatures like half-elves and half-orcs, which WotC has decided are too problematic (not without some justification). The recommendation is to choose one thing or the other (make your half-elf either an elf or a human; make your half-orc either an orc or a human, etc.). If you need backstory around it, have them be adopted.

Here’s a nicely done guidelines of the “minor” things that have to be done differently to use 5.5e to build 5e characters, or 5e rules to build 5.5e characters. The author has a different threshold of what’s a significant compatibility problem (and glosses over some major spell changes), but it’s another way of looking at this information.

Using D&D 2014 and 2024 characters and rules together — A lot of red and orange there

Can I use a 5e scenario / module in 5.5e?

Yes, but …

The module materials will all be written up with 5e rules and versions of monsters and NPCs and 5e spell lists and 5e mechanics. You can Just Do It as written, or you might want to take the time and effort to update some or all of the material to take advantage of the new way 5.5e handles things like monsters that cast spells, monster races with multiple “classes”/roles, etc.

What about VTT issues?

This is where we get an added layer of complexity. I can’t speak to VTTs other than Roll20, but here’s what I’ve learned so far about 5.5e and that VTT. This centers on the character sheet system, as that is the only place where the system rules are embedded.

Implementation of 5.5e into Roll20 is still dodgy. Or so I’ve been told by at least one player. Not all species / classes / feats that have been brought into 5.5e have made it into the character sheet and advancement features in Roll20.
Working in a mixed campaign — one supporting 5e and 5.5e characters and/or NPCs — causes problems. This is because Roll20 implemented its 5.5e character sheets with a new tech stack, different from what was used with 5e. The new tech stack removes a ton of cruft from the old one, and is much more easily modifiable as 5.5e progresses, but it doesn’t have the same hooks and API variable names or exposure that the old 5e character sheet had. Thus, macros you have written for 5e may not work with 5.5e characters or NPCs (and vice-versa)

This last is particularly a problem when you want to run with 5.5e rules and characters, but are using a 5e module, as all of its NPCs will be using the 5e character sheet (for NPCs), which Roll20 will get indigestion over (and, again, some macro issues will crop up). Converting all the monsters to 5.5e would be a huge lift.

I spent about a week trying to overcome those issues. I didn’t come up with a great answer, most of the macro stuff can be worked around (esp. if the only 5e characters are NPCs, meaning the NPCs run with their own set of macros, which often happens). The best answer may be to hold off running a 5.5e set of characters until (a) more 5.5e material is published and brought into Roll20, and (b) Roll20 makes their 5.5e implementation more robust.

Net-net

All of the above issues are, fundamentally, compatibility issues. They are very similar to what came up when D&D went from 3.0 to 3.5, which is why it’s frustrating for WotC to pretend that there are no significant compatibility issues.

Mixing and matching 5e/5.5e stuff is going to be something of a pain for the next few years. Ultimately, the 5e stuff will die out or be successfully converted (for VTT purposes, if nothing else). For our table, at least, we’re just going to stick with 5e for the moment, and see where things are in a few years when the next campaign kicks off.

Is D&D 2024e backwards compatible? Call me dubious.

The 2024e edition is a new set of rules. WotC doesn’t want you to believe that.

Or whatever it’s being called this week

WotC has been insistent, insistent I say, that the new edition of D&D is not, in fact, a new edition. This is not D&D 6e! This is not even D&D 5.5e! This is …

Well, they call it 2024e, because that is not at all confusing with what 5e is being called now (2014e).

But, of course if it were not a new edition, why would we need to refer to it differently?

Or, to look at it another way, why not just call it D&D with new optional rules like have shown up in things like Tasha’s, etc.?

Because then they wouldn’t sell new books, amirite?

But we’re not to call it a new edition. It is simply rule changes that are completely compatible with the older, um, previous, er, differently-numbered-year edition not-an-edition set of numbers.

A Caveat

Note: the changes in rules from 2014e / 5e to 2024e are not necessarily bad. In fact, a lot of them sound kind of interesting. But are they backwards-compatible? Do they not imbalance encounters and conflicts in earlier modules? Will players in a given campaign be able to change to 2024e without making any difference? Will 5e characters be as good against new 2024e campaigns? If some players want to switch but others do not, will that work well? Will various Virtual Tabletops handle mixed parties and/or modules?

Two examples that got a fair amount of play in my reading today:

Surprise in 2024e

In 5e / 2014e, when a group or individuals are Surprised, they roll Initiative as normal, but are unable to take any Actions or Reactions or movement through their first turn, after which they can only React until their next turn.

So that’s pretty harsh. Surprised foes (or friends) are at a serious deficit here. In an Action Economy,

In 2024e, Surprised individuals … roll Initiative at Disadvantage.

That’s a much simpler mechanic, but it’s also a lot easier mechanic. Rather than missing out on an entire turn, you just tend to come late in a turn.

Either alternative is arguable. But are they the same? Can you have a mix of players choosing a different version, for themselves or their opponents? Can you seamlessly change the rule to match previous challenges? Does it just become another option? Is it a significant enough change to actually alter how an encounter ends?

Inspiration in 2024e

Inspiration is an optional rule in 5e / 2014e. The DM (with input from the players) can give someone up to 1 point of Inspiration. That Inspiration can be turned in (in advance) for Advantage on an attack roll, saving throw, or ability check.

Okay, pretty straightforward. A D20 roll can be rolled with Advantage.

The 2024e version changes the mechanic and the name. It’s now “Heroic Inspiration,” and it allows instead a re-roll on any roll a player makes — an attack, a damage roll, a healing roll, whatever.

A key here, from the designers, was the sense that too much adds Advantage. That’s kind of ironic, as Advantage was intended as a way of simplifying the endless plusses/minuses of 3e, 3.5e, and 4e. But there was here a sense that too much was being simplified and rolled into a trinary Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic.

In addition to that rather significant change, there are now a variety of mechanical ways to gain “Heroic Inspiration,” including a Fighter subclass that just basically gets their point refreshed every turn.

It’s an interesting design choice, and I can see a lot behind it. It can make for more ways to leverage Inspiration (through broader dice rolls, and also by taking out of the unstackable Advantage bucket). It also makes, through its expanded Inspiration, a more reliable way of getting it.

On the other hand, it introduces Yet Another Mechanic. And it weakens that RP focus of the current Inspiration mechanic.

Good? Bad? I can see arguments either way. But it’s a very distinct choice, and something a table will need to decide One Way or The Other. Unlike the Surprise mechanic, I don’t think it changes balance — but does that make it Backwards Compatible?

Just call it a new edition, fergoshsakes

People who have bought 5e, will have three choices.

Change to 2024e, either mid-campaign, or next time there’s a module change (and upgrade any 5e-era modules to use the new rules).
Stick with 5e, and hope they can “backwards compatible” the mechanics of 2024e-era modules into those rules.
Mix and match — in existing campaigns or in new ones, evaluate the 2024e rules that have changed and depending which ones to pull in and which to continue using (and where players can select different conclusions).

Option 1 is pretty standard for a new actual edition. Option 2 might be possible with an actual edition change, but it would be a bit of work. Option 3 only is possible if that “backwards compatible” notion is real.

These sneak peaks (the first 2024e volume only comes out in September) make me think that WotC has tried to come up with something better enough and different enough to justify getting a new set of books (or virtual add-ins to the VTT … or both!) while pretending that it’s just a set of optional improvements.

I resent that.

I will almost certainly get the new edition of books and rules and use them in the future. I will remain resentful that WotC has been playing games with the whole thing to make money and pretend like they aren’t.

Princes of the Apocalypse, Session 45: “At the Crossroads, Part 3”

Wherein the party wraps up outstanding items in Red Larch, and delves back into Tyar-Besil.

This is part of a series about my DMing Princes of the Apocalypse, a D&D 5e adventure by and copyright Wizards of the Coast.

Table of Contents ● The Party

There will be SPOILERS. If you are playing in a PotA game, please don’t read this. But if you are DMing a PotA game, or are a DM who wants to see what the ride was like … read on!

GM Recap

Session 45 (Day 38-29)
In … Red Larch!

William wandered under the new moon as a Giant Badger. He had something to remember on the tip of his tongue, but couldn’t think of it.
Faith dreams of the young woman she’s welcomed to her hut. Nala has a dream of conversing with Aldrik at a bar. Moony has a dream of speaking with a mysterious, grizzled old Tabaxi who asked him questions about hunting and prey.
Pursuing Bruldenthar‘s mysterious Sending, the Theren and Faith sought out Endrith Vallivoe to enquire about what the “Dearest Treasure of the Dwarves,” which Endrith thought might be the Crown of the Silver Keep. William, on the other hand, speculated it might have been the Vale of Dancing Waters, which Bruldenthar was previously known to be searching for.
The Shopkeeper sent a half-elf urchin, Vetch, to bring Theren to him. The whole party went. The Shopkeeper spoke to him of powers, spells, and specialization, then offered, as some sort of odd “experiment,” to sell him a Ring of Fire Resistance for half its value (Theren bargained him down further). (This item still needs to be Attuned.)
The party traveled toward Feathergale Spire to return to where they’d last been. Along the way, they were struck by a powerful earthquake, which seemed to have a localized effect. While passing the Spire, William left a funerary offering to the dead, hoping that Haeleeya Hanadroum would see it and treat it as an apology for Savra’s death.
Upon reaching the Temple of Howling Hatred, and lengthy consideration of their next path, they chose to enter the “Gates]” area of Tyar-Besil. After dispatching the returned Nothic in the room of the Gargoyle Fountain, they scouted their way forward.
Black Earth token

Just within the next zone, they discovered the passage was apparently guarded by a large, chained, sleeping bulette. After lengthy debate about what to do, they attacked it from down the corridor, doing it substantial damage before it could even get to its feet. It did managed to take a huge bite out of Faith, before falling, crying out in its pain.
At which point, other voices of bulettes echoed from deeper in the chamber

Player Recap

Landshark

William heads out to enjoy the new moon on the knoll West of the inn. There is a thread of a memory I had previously. There is an old man escorted by a worker and someone else. He is complaining that everyone has forgotten him.

Dreams:

Faith dreams of taking in a man in need
Nala is in the Glaive ‘n’ Goblin in Waterdeep along the gateway. She is drinking with Aldrick. To keys that open doors and to keys that close them.
Moony dreams of an old Tabaxi

Theren and Faith go to Vallivoe’s to see if he knows anything about “The Dwarves’ Greatest Treasure” Endrith mentions several possibilities but lands on the Crown of the Silver Keep. Eventually he sells Theren a book on the subject. When they leave, a half-elf street urchin, Vetch, gets their attention and says that the “Shopkeeper” has something for his dilemma.

Theren decides to stop by the inn first to collect the rest of the party. When he enters the shop he is greeted by the Shopkeeper. Theren wants to get to the point, but the Shopkeeper insists on that Theren owes him a story and request that he tell of the tower of smoke and fire. Theren gives him a bare bones description of the events leading to destruction of tower.

The shopkeeper offers Theren a Ring of Fire Resistance. He makes it clear that it is only available to Theren. The price is 3,000 gold, but he is talked down to 2,000 gold. The shopkeeper is amused and indicates that the decisions that Theren makes is worth the added expense for the experiment.

Theren asks Moony to check around back. There is a back door to a yard, which is well traveled.

About an hour out of town, Nala notices that the woods are silent. Suddenly, the earth moves violently. A huge fissure appears near them. The magic users decide that it must be a spell since it is so limited in focus. The rest of the travel to the entrance is uneventful.

William takes a short detour to leave 100gp inside the Feathergale Spire with a simple note that says “For the deceased”

The rest of the travel to Tyar-Besil and to the Temple of Howling Hatred is uneventful. As the enter the area of the temple, they hear loud piercing sounds of women screaming or birds crying. Williams shouts “We mean you no harm if you do not attack.” The cries stop.

Moony wins the flip and the group moves to the northeast corner of the air temple. Moony gets to the entrance of the earth temple. Moony is near the entrance and he says “They’re back.” A nothic attacks Nala and it is hit by a telekinetic reprisal. The nothic is running for the door that the group used to entered the gargoyle plaza. Moony retaliates with a short-bow attack. William and Theren finish it off. They poke at the remains and see that it is inherently magic and totally wrong.

Resuming the path to the earth temple. Moony listens and checks for traps. He see a landshark chained to a pillar. After some debate William does an augury spell that strongly suggests that releasing the bulette and trying to scare it further into the temple would not be a good idea (Thank You, Faith!) Instead the group clusters in the hall and begins attacking the monster. A lot of damage is done by the party before it is able to get to its feet and charge the party. Faith is the only person within reach of the creature. He takes a chunk out of her and then dies as the acid from the Vitriolic Sphere eats through his hide.

Game Notes

Filling out the Red Larch dance card

I’d gotten through most of my Red Larch stuff the previous session, but there were still a few items to hit.

Investigation roll — Some days, the dice just do not work for anyone.

First, I really wanted William to remember seeing folk taking bodies out for burial the end of their first visit. But at least two Investigation rolls later, nothing doing. Ah, well. Not critical.

Second, I really wanted someone to read Bruldenthar’s scroll, to see if that would noodge them toward the Vale of Dancing Waters, since I had gone to the effort of making an enhancement pass on the side quest. So I was both kind of excited and a bit daunted when the Theren decided to inquire of Eldrith about what the dearest treasure of the dwarves was.

Insert quick GM improvising about a lengthy legend of a dwarvish warrior and the quest for the Crown of the Silver Keep, and selling an old book to Theren. (I created a Roll20 Journal Entry for it after the fact.)

That one of the players then picked up on the Vale was kind of cool. Alas, the consensus was “Go back to Feathergale Spire.” Ah, well.

Third, I had a few more prods to a couple of characters, esp. Theren (whose patron god, unknown to him, was sitting there as the Shopkeeper) and Faith (who was always good for a provocation). I didn’t expect the whole party to attend, and so I focused just on Theren, and offered him at ruinous prices a Fire Prot ring. The question was, would he carry it himself, as a protection, or give it to someone like Nala, who stands on the front lines and could be hit by one of his Fireballs?

(Answer: he wore it himself.)

Dreams!

Plenty of dreams that overnight. Faith‘s was to try to lull her (or have her realized she’s being lulled) by Windvane. Nala was to let Aldrik (or his spirit) drop some clues that might help them (I wasn’t happy by how that one turned out).

Moony‘s was fun because most of the ones I had crafted for him were “the hunter hunted” type and I wanted something different. So, with the idea that Denier, Faith’s god, is getting shut out from her dreams by the presence of Windvane, I had him manifest as a Tabaxi to talk with Moony. I’ll do that a few times and see what Faith’s reaction is. (The party members tend to discuss their dreams, so I’m not treating them as secrets.)

Two more notes from the dreams. First, I realized at this point I’d done so many that having a single Roll20 journal entry for them was getting unwieldy. So I broke them into separate ones, though public.

Second, Aldrik. My expectation had been my son coming back from college and picking the character (who was currently chained by the altar in the Fane) again. And then (and this is a Good Thing), he got a post-graduate field job on the other side of the country. So on the one hand, yay! On the other hand, awww!

I had no idea at this point if he’d pick up playing remotely (huzzah for Roll20!). If he did, I might need to scramble, because the party would NOT be at that point by then.

The Sidekick

I actually added to the populace of Red Larch by adding a half-elf urchin (stowaway on a caravan from Waterdeep) named Vetch. Insert street urchin tropes here. She was working for the Shopkeeper, and it was fun to play her.

I had a stray thought that he would be sending her to follow the party and keep track of them (as a god, he wanted to monitor what’s happening, but the magical interference of the approaching Princes was blinding, even the gods, just as the oracle who first assigned this quest to them to this was blinded).

I would need to do some further thinking on the matter, as there were plenty of opportunities to be saddled with civilians in this campaign. On the other hand, the idea of somehow maneuvering it so that Theren ended up with a half-elven ward was utterly delicious.

(And I could use the Sidekick rules to create an easy NPC. Hmmmmm.)

EVENTUAL UPDATE: Conceptually, Vetch was a lot of fun. But things were complicated enough already for me and the players, so I dropped the whole idea.

The Slow Road Back to the Action

I skipped over all other random encounters, with the idea of getting them to the action as soon as I could. William delayed things by his touching leaving of a purse of gold coins for Haeleeya, as perhaps the final denouement of the Savra story.

But that was nothing compared to the party arriving, under the mountains, at the entrance to the Temple of Howling Hatred … and trying to decide what to do. Head up to the (presumed) Fire Temple at the “Forges”? Head across two zones to the (presumed) Earth Temple at the “Gates”? Take one of the three or four gates downward that they’d found?

I love my friends (including the dearest friend who’s my wife), but one flaw they all have (which is usually a virtue) is that none of them are pushy, or want to be seen as pushy. So all of them might have an idea, and they might even present the idea, but then they would almost invariably say, “But, hey, that’s just my idea, no obligation to do it, what does everyone else think?”

Lather, rinse, repeat.

i'm more bored than this cat — I’m more bored than this cat

So a half hour later, I finally asked the Tabaxi, “So, which path seems the least boring to you?” I’m not sure he legitimately gave an honest answer to that, but he urged the path from the Water Temple toward the (presumed) Earth Temple, and so they did it.

While it slightly slowed things down, I felt obliged to have the Nothic who escaped the party earlier from the Gargoyle Fountain room to have crept back in the couple of days they were gone. Brief combat and defeat, marred only by the player who’s dug up the Thieves Guild Guide to Breaking Down Monsters for Parts You Can sell going through all the things you can sell Nothic parts for …

Sigh.

Meta Mapping Issues and Roll20

I don’t know who adapts the WotC modules for Roll20 — a WotC crew or a Roll20 crew – but I would like to have words.

First, as noted earlier, it would be really nice to have it confirmed that the passages from one Temple zone to the next are really only about the length that actually shows on the maps (combined). (That’s actually a WotC PotA problem.)

Second, it would be even nicer if those bridging passages were not cut off on each map, wasting a good ten feet of corridor, esp. since the far end of those corridors is often dangerous and problem-laden. In this particular case, a fitfully sleeping bulette.

There was no way to fit a party of five into the corridor space allotted without their being in view of the bulette.

(Digression: The History, in D&D Editions, of the Bulette, including, canonically, how to pronounce their name.)

Of course, I could simply plop characters down into the interstitial space between the edge of the drawn map and the edge of the physical map. But, alas, there’s not only no corridor drawn there, but there’s a light/movement barrier there. So if I put any characters back there, they not only cannot move up the corridor into combat, but they get a delightful “behind the scenes” look at the inside of the walls.

(Rolls eyes.)

extra space on the map — I eventually figured out how to add some extra space onto the map to stage characters pre-bulette

And I can’t easily break that light barrier because whoever does the (not always very good) job of drawing the barriers on the light layer in Roll20 does like a quarter of the dungeon at a time. So I can (a) suffer, or (b) redraw a quarter of the dungeon. (Which is a huge PitA, though my redrawing is usually better than the original.)

UPDATE: I eventually discovered the Roll20 PathSplitter API script (yay for Roll20 Pro), which let me relatively painlessly break that extended path of walls and create a reasonable staging ground for the players. So, again, yay.

Extended problem-solving

I’ve mentioned how much I love my friends, none of whom would ever dream of ~~taking command~~ seeming pushy. So I also loved how it took them half an hour to devise a way of dealing with the bulette. Or not.

In the end, four things happened:

They managed to surprise the sleeping bulette, which meant they’d taken it down substantial HP before it started after them. (In retrospect, I should have been rolling against their endless planning to see if it woke up on its own.)
They learned where the chain binding the bulette to the pillar extended to, which meant most of them were safe …
… Except Faith, who learned how godawful many HP a bulette could do with a chomp.

And, at the very end, as they congratulated themselves on killing the bulette (except the one player who noticed it was labeled “Bulette 1“), they got to hear the roaring howls of the other bulettes in the hall, who were now awake, enraged, and ready to start working on their chains.

Bits and Bobs

I realized I’d been forgetting about the weather lately (as the party was underground). Today’s roll on the Weather Table, to make up for that, was an Earthquake (the characters are at higher levels, therefore the “weather” was getting worse).

<< Session 44 | Session 46 >>

D&D 5e Rules – Spells – Spell Components (and Conspicuous Consumption)!

We are living in a Material world!

Know the Rules Part of an ongoing series of 5e (2014) Rules notes. See the end of the post for notes on 5.5e (2024) rules.

Even though it was pretty late in my first big campaign, the cleric’s acquisition of Heroes’ Feast prompted a bit more research on my part about spell components, particularly consumable ones.

I’ve never been a huge fan of spell components because they are, in normal usage, a Pain in the Ass. Like Encumbrance rules, they are only of play value in edge cases. So using Holy Symbols and Arcane Foci and Component Pouches are a useful way around that.

Usually.

Components

There are three basic aspects of spell components.

Verbal (V)

Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren’t the source of the spell’s power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can’t cast a spell with a verbal component. (PHB)

Practically speaking, Verbal components only come into play in circumstances when something interferes — Silence spells, the need to be Stealthy, casting underwater, gags, etc. The rest of the time, we ignore them.

Somatic (S)

Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures. (PHB)

Again, at my table we only worry about this for cases where something is getting into the way of that “free hand” thing — being bound or restrained, paralysis, etc. I’m sure there are gaming tables where a sword-and-board-wielding Cleric would have difficulties (and, in fact, the Warcaster feat has a feature to overcome this), but mine is not one of them.

Material (M)

Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.

If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell’s material components — or to hold a spellcasting focus — but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components. (PHB 203, emphasis mine)

More specifically answered in the Sage Advice Compendium:

Does a spell consume its material components? A spell doesn’t consume its material components unless its description says it does. For example, the pearl required by the Identify spell isn’t consumed, whereas the diamond required by Raise Dead is used up when you cast the spell.

If a spell’s material components are consumed, can a spellcasting focus still be used in place of the consumed component? No. A spellcasting focus can be used in place of a material component only if that component has no cost noted in the spell’s description and if that component isn’t consumed.

Keeping Focus

So here’s the rub. Spell foci / arcane foci do a lot of cool things — no need to collect components — but they do not substitute for priced consumables. There is no gold coin slot in the side of your holy symbol to consume the cost of such spells. The actual component is needed.

Focuses are spelled out here. Note that I tend not to worry about the holy symbol, etc., being something actually manipulated. Rule of Cool fantasy means that the glowing holy symbol engraved on your shield is just fine (as long as a Rust Monster doesn’t consume your shield). But consumables are the edge case.

Consumables

And, in particular, they are the edge case because they restrict “free” use of very powerful and potentially unbalancing spells. Heroes Feast is an example — its effect can be profound and, as such, is not designed for casual, everyday use. “Every day is a Heroes’ Feast day” is not a common D&D trope, for just that reason. Every cleric at 11th Level has a holy symbol focus, and thus without a consumable restriction, Heroes’ Feasts would (with sufficient treasure) be a daily thing for every hero. It’s not.

Here is a fun database someone worked up of expensive components and when they are consumed. Interestingly enough, while there are a number of spells so identified, most of them use individual items — a diamond, e.g., for Raise Dead.

Note that, again, magic doesn’t let you use 500gp instead of a 500gp diamond. And Heroes’ Feast is special in having a “Gem-encrusted specially crafted bowl” worth 1000gp; you can’t just substitute 1000gp of miscellaneous booty.

jewel-encrusted bowl — A gem-encrusted bowl, for example

(Btw, this also explains why, except in powerful bad guy or rich heroic dude lairs, you don’t find Continual Flame on everything — it literally costs a consumed 50gp ruby.)

But that’s no fun!

It does make a few things more fiddly, which, to my mind, is, I agree, not fun. But the spells we are talking about are — well, if not game-breakers, then close to it. Heroes’ Feast is an incredible spell, as I think everyone admits. Its recipients get for the day (aside from “this complete breakfast”):

Cured of all diseases
Cured of all poisoning
Immunity to poison
Immunity to fear
Advantage on all WISdom saves
+2d10 HP and HP Max

On reflection, that simply can’t be party SOP; it’s effectively a level-up, and could be literally dungeon-breaking (“Module 12: The Tomb of the Venomous Lords of Terror!”). Grinding 1000gp a day for that seems a significant expense, but, at at the level the spell is available, still relatively trivial. The cost (aside from burning your daily 6th Level spell) needs to include a resource restriction.

In fact, it’s more than just “a 1000gp gem-encrusted bowl” which, presumably, one might find in a dungeon stash of royal crockery: the spell notes it must be specially crafted for the purpose of this spell.

I might allow someone in the party with the proper jewelry crafting skills to actually create such a bowl from suitable materials (and, no, the average character can’t just glue some gems to a bowl and call it good).

Alternately, in the proper setting, I can imagine such a crafted item being found in a dungeon or ruined castle. King Flamebeard would, when riding with his knights against their foes, partake of a special magical breakfast meal to guard them from harm … and if you search around real carefully, you might find the hidden crockery cupboard where a Heroes Feast-intended bowl or two were stashed away …

Any differences here in 5.5e?

In the latest version of D&D, 5.5e (2024), things are pretty much the same. I would expect any major changes to be in particular spell needs — if you are moving between systems, don’t assume anything!

Focusing just on Material Components here, the definition comes in the PHB (p. 237):

A Material component is a particular material used in a spell’s casting, as specified in parentheses in the Components entry. These materials aren’t consumed by the spell unless the spell’s description states otherwise. The spellcaster must have a hand free to access them, but it can be the same hand used to perform Somatic components, if any.

Okay, that’s pretty much like 5e.

If a spell doesn’t consume its materials and doesn’t specify a cost for them, a spellcaster can use a Component Pouch (see “Equipment”) instead of providing the materials specified in the spell, or the spellcaster can substitute a Spellcasting Focus if the caster has a feature that allows that substitution. To use a Component Pouch, you must have a hand free to reach into it, and to use a Spellcasting Focus, you must hold it unless its description says otherwise (see “Equipment” for descriptions).

Okay a bit more nitpicky in having that free hand stuff (it’s a mini-Somatic inside of the Material Component). At my table, I don’t worry much about that, unless, maybe, the character is bound or paralyzed or something.

Here are links to the 5.5e Arcane Foci and ~~Sacred Foci~~ Holy Symbols.

Special note: The new PHB has a sidebar for creating your own Verbal Components to speak at the table. Which … is a bit too immersive gameplay for me.

D&D 5e/5.5e Rules – Spells and Exceeding Range / Line-of-Sight!

What happen if you cast an ongoing spell, then wander away?

Know the Rules Part of an ongoing series of 5e (2014) Rules notes. See the end of the post for notes on 5.5e (2024) rules.

The range and need of line-of-sight is pretty clear when spells are initially cast, but what happens if range is exceeded or line of sight is broken in a spell that lasts more than an instantaneous effect — in particular, with spells that require Concentration to maintain them?

(In the case that came up in my campaign, the party wanted to maintain a spell as they fled; a more common instance is the affected party fleeing the caster and breaking LoS or exceeding distance.)

The General Rule

It’s pretty straightforward: range and line-of-sight don’t matter once the spell has been cast. As PHB 203 puts it:

Once a spell is cast, its effects aren’t limited by its range, unless the spell’s description says otherwise.

So, as a general rule (and as confirmed by Jeremy Crawford and also confirmed by Jeremy Crawford), once you have successfully cast a spell on a spot or a target opponent, it will continue until it naturally ends (i.e., with a Concentration spell, until the time limit is passed or the character drops concentration), regardless of what the range or line-of-sight is. You are maintaining the spell, not the targeting.

Spells that say otherwise, of course, are otherwise (the specific overrides the general).

That said, if you and the target are beyond LoS, you don’t know what is going on there. Maybe the guy you threw Heat Metal on ran into the next room, took off the armor, and put it on an orphan waif, and your continuing the damage is killing an innocent. Ah, well …

What about in 5.5e (2024)?

The basics still look pretty much the same. The notes on spell range say:

If a spell has movable effects, they aren’t restricted by its range unless the spell’s description says otherwise.

Which kind of looks close to what was there before. It clearly encompasses spells that are described as moving (e.g., Flaming Sphere). Does that also include spells cast on a target that then moves away? What about the other way around — if the spell is cast on a fixed spot (or unmoving target) and the spell caster moves?

They would seem to apply from previous precedent, and because some spells explicitly in their description that they fade or end when a given range is exceeded (e.g., Mage Hand).

Similarly, from a line of sight perspective, the only mention is in the initial spell casting:

A Clear Path to the Target. To target something with a spell, a caster must have a clear path to it, so it can’t be behind Total Cover.

No mention is made of lingering effects after that, so, presumably, the same is true: a clear path is only needed during the initial casting (targeting).

Finally, the Sage Advice Compendium notes the following:

If you’re concentrating on a spell, do you need to maintain line of sight with the spell’s target or the spell’s effect?

You don’t need to be within line of sight or within range to maintain Concentration on a spell unless a spell’s description or other game feature says otherwise.

Those are the only rules or rulings on this that I can find for 5.5e. As things change and/or are pointed out to me, I’ll update this entry.

Princes of the Apocalypse, Session 43: “At the Crossroads”

Wherein the party goes someplace unexpected, and avert a Very Bad Thing

This is part of a series about my DMing Princes of the Apocalypse, a D&D 5e adventure by and copyright Wizards of the Coast.

Table of Contents ● The Party

There will be SPOILERS. If you are playing in a PotA game, please don’t read this. But if you are DMing a PotA game, or are a DM who wants to see what the ride was like … read on!

GM Recap

Session 43 (Day 37-38)
In … The Temple of the Crushing Wave

Faced with a Bag of Holding starting to approach capacity, plus the prospect of spending some of their hard-earned loot, the party left the underground city of Tyar-Besil, back to Feathergale Spire, and thence to Red Larch, returning to the town three days (!) after they’d left it.
They found the town that night in something of a panic. A traveling merchant had just arrived from the southeast; immediately after his departure from Womford, there had been a brilliant flash of light and, when he turned, the town was devastated in flames.
Faith brought Bruldenthar‘s books to the All-Faiths Shrine, which was doing good business because of the town’s alarm. Brother Sand offered to watch over them, though he was short-handed as the second rotational priest had not yet arrived. Faith offered to stay at the shrine and lend a hand.
After enjoying good food and good beds (plus a few odd dreams), the party awoke to find the town seemingly under attack by a large group of Black Earth cultists — a priest, guards, and several monks. They were doing something with an odd mystical orb, which was rendered inert by Faith’s Dispel Magic. A big melee ensued, leaving the party wounded and tired, but the Black Earth cultists all dead, their plan, which seemed to be some sort of threat to Red Larch, averted. For now.

Player Recap

Emptying the Bag of Holding

The group heads to town to empty their bag and lighten their load. They each have 2921 gold and 7 silver (Aldrik 2458 gold and 3 silver). When they arrive at the Swinging Sword Kaylessa greets them and tells them about the destruction of Womford.

They ask for rooms and drop off their backpacks, Faith and Nala head to the All-faiths Shrine to drop off Bruldenthar’s books. There are several town’s folks praying. Brother Sand greets them. Faith explains that they have found the books that Bruldenthar brought with the Mirabar Delegation. Brother Sand explains that everything is higgledy piggledy . Right now there is only one of me. The other priest hasn’t rotated in. The second priest was coming down from Triboar to replace. Faith asks if Brother Sand can store the books and offers to stay and help caring for the flock. People continue to arrive until much later than expected. That night she has a vague dream about alarms being raised.

William, Moony and Theren head to the room and clean up. William takes a bath, Moony heads to the Helm to relax and tell tales of turtle dragons. Mr. Kitty does not make an impression when competing against the merchant from Womford. He tells the tale of leaving Womford early in the morning as a religious celebration was starting. There was a bright flash, looked back, and sees the town on fire. When Moony gets a chance Moony describes Imyx and asks him if it looked similar. He says that it didn’t look like there was a figure of fire, but there was so much fire, he did not see a face in the fire.

Theren, Nala, and William head to the Helm for dinner. Garlen treats them to dinner for their past help with Justran. The merchant from Womford leaves a bit later and Moony follows to confirm that he safely entered the Swinging Sword without anyone following.

After finishing dinner the group heads back to the Sword. Falling into their beds, the groups sleep well, except Theren. He dreams of a town in flames full of people dying that he can not help. William wakes up in the middle of the night and has an urge of going outside. He feels much better when he returns to the room. Later he dreams of the stars and being outside. He is at peace. He sees a large person carrying a third person. It is an old man who lifts his head and says “Everyone has forgotten me.”

In the morning, Faith wakes early as usual. The quarters are better than those in Tyar-Besil, but still not great. She plans for a targeted donation for improving the quarters. The rest of the party is also up when they hear, “Hey, what are you doing” followed by the sounds of an odd chant. Racing out of the temple and inn, the party sees an Earth priest with several guards and monks at the end of the road. He is chanting and holding a glowing orb. Faith casts a silence spell on the cultists trying to interrupt the spell casting. Theren adds a fireball to the chaos and the fight gets hot. A dispel magic from Faith stops the eerie glow and humming from the orb. The rest is mostly clean-up.

Game Notes

At the Cross-Roads

As previously noted, I tend to make up cute titles for episodes, based on where I figured they would next go, or perhaps who they would next meet. No spoilers, but something that, if I did my job right, would lead to an “OOOOOH, now I see it …” reaction afterwards.

But for an episode where the party could go any direction they wanted, all I could do was lampshade the ambiguity.

Well, the session was more cross-roady than I was expecting, in a couple of ways.

As also previously noted, there were always three ways for the party to be moving: laterally (to other Temples in the main level of Tyar-Besil), down (to the Fane or to the actual Nodes, which would be a serious level challenge), or out.

I was ready for the first two. For some reason, I was not ready for the last..

I should have been. And, to be sure, I wasn’t totally unprepared. The game talks about what’s going on with Cult Retribution in the outside worlds as the Temples start falling. But as that’s a pretty dynamic thing, I only kept matters sketched out in my head. Plus “out” could mean anywhere, to any destination. I figured I’d have plenty of warning.

“Plenty of warning”
≠
“Okay, it’s the start of the episode,
let’s go check in on the outside world.”

And the fact is, it was something I had been urging, wanting, dropping hints about. Dreams of disaster. Etc. Coming across Bruldenthar’s books, which took up over half the weight of the Bag of Holding was just icing on the cake.

heavy books — These require a Book Bag of Holding, of course

(Calculation: Weight and dimensions of “nearly 50 old tomes” vs the Bag of Holding. Each book is 0.5 cubic feet, and 6 lbs. (based on my wife’s Italia Cucina tome). So 48 books = 12 cubic feet and 288 lbs. A BoH can hold 64 cubic feet, and 250 lbs.)

So the party decided they were going to return to Red Larch, drop off the books, spend some of their newfound wealth at Ye Olde Magick Shoppe, and generally take a bit of a breather.

Great.

Sic transit Womford

It was a quick decision to make it that word of the destruction of Womford had occurred. Which, on later examination, I realized I had over-estimated in terms of destruction. The Fire-based Orb of Devastation (not Orb of Annihilation, which I kept calling it in my head) only unleashes … a horrible heat wave, which a high chance of fires breaking out. It doesn’t act as a tactical nuke.

Oops. I’d already foreshadowed that kind of blast in people’s dreams. Oh, well. And, heck, it wasn’t like I was using Womford any more.

The party had brushed against Womford previously. They almost took their stolen boat from Rivergard Keep down there. They knew that the genasi pirate Shoalar Quanderil operated from there. And they knew that Bruldenthar the dwarvish librarian had headed down there from Summit Hall a few tendays back, with plans to head further down to Waterdeep to tell about his lost books. One of which had shown up in Red Larch last time the party was there.

So it seemed like a fine place to destroy — one they hadn’t touched yet, but one they knew about.

Who’s next?

Red Larch was the obvious next target. Having been cued about the disaster in Womford, the second Cult Retaliation would hit at the place (and people) they knew so well.

Womford had been hit by the Fire Cult. That was both a “Hey, the Apocalypse is coming, boo-yah” moment, but also an underhanded strike at the Water Cult, which was had been using Womford (along with Rivergard Keep) as a place of strength. A lot of chit-chat amongst NPCs in the Water Temple centered around that.

The Black Earth, on the other hand, the next out the Devastation Chute, went for Red Larch — to strike back against the adventurers who were causing grief to the overall cause, and because the town had already been attacked, through influence, by the Earth cult (remember Larrakh and the Believers), and the effort had failed.

Red Larch Believers — “Join me … or die!” “Wait, what?”

This association will get played up next time, I hope.

The other obvious locales for further Devastation shenanigans are Beliard to the NE (a place the party has also been to), and Westbridge to the NW. We’ll see how that goes.

Haste Makes Wasteland

DMs have to make quick decisions, and I was making far too many for my comfort or efficiency. As soon as they said they were going to Red Larch, I knew I was going to have the Black Earth folk show up there, probably the next morning. That’s sort of hand-wavingly fast from the conquest of the previous temple, but the BBEGs work in mysterious ways, their plot elements to perform.

But … I didn’t have a detailed tactical map of downtown Red Larch (note: you can find these online, but I didn’t at the time). And none of the maps I had loaded in my Roll20 instance were a good match, given that they knew the town layout (so a generic town intersection didn’t seem like the right idea to me).

I ended up finding a basic crossroads map, then drew some buildings, and then realized people could see through the walls, so tried to add light barriers mid-battle and …

Ugh.

The melee, though, had a key moment where I think I made a RAW error.

Faith, the Cleric, saw the BE Priest holding up the Devastation Orb and decided to cast a Dispel Magic to break whatever spell was being ritually cast.

Hrm. I never thought of that.

So the Devastation Orb is not being cast/invoked by the BE Priest. It’s something created down in the Black Geode Node (where Marlos Urnrayle is currently hanging out). But … it’s got a limited duration (1d100 hours or something), so it’s not like a permanent enchantment on an item.

Can Dispel Magic dispel an Orb?

Well … probably not. You could probably use it, or Counterspell, to interrupt the casting (which is done by one of the Prophet Weapons). The Orb itself, though, is a “Wondrous Item,” and you can’t dispel items. Or so I determined after the fact.

I did say (erroneously, but raising daunting stakes), “Okay, this is a 9th Level spell” … and the Cleric did roll high enough to make it happen. I still wasn’t convinced it was correct, but decided the “Rule of Cool” meant that she succeeded. Which, given the player’s reaction made it worthwhile.

And, after the fact, I realized that she was also carrying / attuned Windvane — the Prophet Weapon of Air, which can, in fact, create Orbs of Devastation itself. And, so, might have made it possible for her to dispel the same, especially against the “opposite” element. (No, not by the rules, but call it a one-off exciting success.)

Dreams

Faith had a woman’s voice (Windvane, in fact) warning her that the city (Waterdeep, in the dream; Red Larch, in reality) was about to be destroyed.
Theren had a dream that he was being used for the nuking of Womford. Disquieting.
William had a dream about the killing and burial of Baragustas, here in town so long back (episode 7, in fact).

Careless Whispers

George Michael - Careless Whisper — No, not these whispers.

Yeah, whispers have been a thing. As in hidden chats in Roll20.

Two sessions previously, I had been typing out a few whispered messages from Windvane to Faith. I can type reasonably fast, but in the middle of juggling everything else, it was just kind of awkward.

For this session, I had created a character sheet so that I could whisper as “Windvane” to Faith. Which I forced myself do to more of, but sometimes forgot to turn back to my DM identity, which meant that sometimes DM public rolls were attributed to “Whisper.” Sigh.

After the session, I created a Roll20 macro that would make it much more straightforward (and one-off for labeling)

/w Faith &{template:default} {{name= A soft whisper in your mind ... }} {{ ?{What message?} }}

This worked great, and I used it for the rest of the campaign (with variants as other Prophet Weapons got picked up.)

Still, even with what I was doing this time, I had an emotional beat success, as Faith’s player called out out in alarm, semi-out-of-character to the others, that Windvane had whispered something really disturbing to her after the defeat of the cultists …

We know how to do that. We know how to create such an orb! We will strike terror across the world, to the glory of Yan-C-Bin!

Yeah, it’s moments like that I DM for.

<< Session 42 | Session 44 >>

D&D 5e Rules – Spells: Wrath of the Storm! (and what kind of attack triggers it)

When you can React to attack depends on what kind of an attack it is.

Know the Rules Part of an ongoing series of 5e (2014) Rules notes. See the end of the post for notes on 5.5e (2024) rules.

Our Tempest Cleric had the Wrath of the Storm class ability (strictly speaking, not a spell), and endlessly enjoyed using it. Even when she took a bigger smack than her attacker did in turn, she just enjoyed the free combat.

It is, in fact, pretty cool:

Also at 1st level, you can thunderously rebuke attackers. When a creature within 5 feet of you that you can see hits you with an Attack, you can use your Reaction to cause the creature to make a DEXterity Saving Throw. The creature takes 2d8 Lightning or Thunder damage (your choice) on a failed Saving Throw, and half as much damage on a successful one.

So in one game, a Smoke Mephit did its ash breath on the cleric from from the adjoining square. This isn’t a To-Hit roll Attack, but an AoE Affect. Should it trigger Wrath of the Storm?

So, is an AoE “attack” an actual attack?

The answer seems to be NO. Because the AoE weapon isn’t, strictly speaking, hitting with an Attack. The key here is “hits you with an Attack.” And the PHB (p. 194) is clear what that all means:

When you make an attack, your attack roll determines whether the attack hits or misses. To make an attack roll, roll a d20 and add the appropriate modifiers. If the total of the roll plus modifiers equals or exceeds the target’s Armor Class (AC), the attack hits. The AC of a character is determined at character creation, whereas the AC of a monster is in its stat block.

Attacks are made with a d20 roll against a target’s AC. But that’s not what happens with the Smoke Mephit’s breath, or a Dragon’s breath weapon, etc. Those:

are not targeted at someone
don’t require an attack roll
aren’t defended by AC

Instead, AoE attacks create a condition in a certain area of squares, and if someone is in that area, they automatically have to make a Saving Throw to determine the severity of the conditions that ensue (which may or may not include damage; the Smoke Mephit’s ashy breath caused blindness).

(This is part and parcel of why an AoE attack from an adjoining square doesn’t trigger any Disadvantage, either — because there’s no attack roll to Disadvantage.)

If there’s no attack roll (and, as part of it, a hit caused by a successful attack roll), Wrath of the Storm does not trigger. That would include attacks with Magic Missile, Hold Person, or even Wrath of the Storm itself:

A consequence of this is that if two tempest clerics are fighting one another, and Ann smacks Bob with her mace, Bob may use Wrath of the Storm on Ann as a Reaction, but Ann cannot retaliate in turn, even though she might have a Reaction available, because Wrath of the Storm does not qualify as an attack.

Does any of this change in 5.5e?

Pretty much nope.

The Tempest Domain for Clerics has not (yet) been ported over to 5.5e (2024), so theoretically it continues to exist as it did in 5e, with Wrath of the Storm acting as above.

The rules over what an “attack” is remain pretty much the same, too.

When you take the Attack action, you can make one attack roll with a weapon or an Unarmed Strike.

The more elaborate PHB definition echoes this:

When you take the Attack action, you make an attack Some other actions, Bonus Actions, and Reactions also let you make an attack. Whether you strike with a Melee weapon, fire a Ranged weapon, or make an attack roll as part of a spell, an attack has the following structure: […]

3. Resolve the Attack. Make the attack roll, as detailed earlier in this chapter. On a hit, you roll damage unless the particular attack has rules that specify otherwise.

So, as with 5e, an attack made through an Attack action (or, in this case, a Magic action) is only considered an attack if there is a to-hit D20 Test by the attacker. In the case of an AoE, there is no such role made, the Area gets an Effect automatically, and the only rolling is to see if creatures in the Area manage to dodge, block, or otherwise fend off all or part of the damage or other conditions taken.

Princes of the Apocalypse, Session 41: “Rising Tides, Part 5: Briny Deep”

Wherein our party dawdles in the Air Temple, then makes (more) progress in the Water Temple.

This is part of a series about my DMing Princes of the Apocalypse, a D&D 5e adventure by and copyright Wizards of the Coast.

Table of Contents ● The Party

There will be SPOILERS. If you are playing in a PotA game, please don’t read this. But if you are DMing a PotA game, or are a DM who wants to see what the ride was like … read on!

GM Recap

Session 41 (Days 36-37)
In … The Temple of the Crushing Wave, mostly

Before taking a long rest, William and Theren investigated the unexplored shops on the north end of the Temple of Howling Hatred. They only found a cloaker lurking in the shadows and, when they returned to rescue William’s stuff, audible signs of more kenku about. Somewhere in there, they slept and had disturbing dreams.
The party snuck back to the Temple of the Crushing Wave and, using Ko as a scout, determined that the dragon turtle was no longer around. They passed north to a bridge over the canal, under which lurked Ninetooth, the “missing” aquatic troll, who attacked them, grieving for Thuluna Maah.
The bridge ended in tall doors protected by a glyph of warding, which Theren deactivated. Over the roaring water, Moony and then William heard draconic voices talking about a pirate town, a war, and Olhydra.
The party charged into the temple. The lizardfolk guards were pretty easily dispatched, but stench-ridden hezrou demon took a lot of attacks (and heals) to overcome, leaving the party in possession of the desecrated temple.

Player Recap

Another Day, Another Demon

There will be several hours before the groups take a long rest. Faith Prays, Moony naps, Nala does sudoku. Theren and William decide to see if they missed anything in the air temple rooms they cleared before. They pass the cultists that are still tied to the pillars. They do not want to be released. There is nothing interesting in the room with the fountain. At first the merchant area is uneventful. Things go downhill when they enter a jewelers and William picks up a cloak that is actually a cloaker. He escapes death by the skin of his teeth by turning into a war horse to break free and run away. Unfortunately, William left his magic flame and everything he was wearing in the room with the cloaker.

Dreams.

William casts a new spell on Ko. He can see and feel through Ko’s senses. He walks quietly towards the room where the group met the dragon turtle. There is no sign of dragon or other foes. The group moves deeper into the water temple watching the dragon tooth sword as they go. The market square has tables overturned and smashed from when the dragon turtle came aground. Moony approaches the doors and examines it and the wall near the spillways. He notices a subtle magical glyph on the door. Theren is able to disable it with his arcane knowledge. He also listens at the door and hears voices speaking draconic. William sneaks up and can hear one saying something about a pirate town. Several others laugh. When the party is ready, Nala opens the door and charges into the room. There are about half a dozen lizard folks. The round doesn’t go well for the lizards. After they take significant damage an ally Hezrou emerges from the water. A grotesque demon, of mighty strength of limb and stench. The demon causes several party members to double over retching. Teamwork wins the day and the party is victorious.

Game Notes

What to do, what to do?

Something funny happened on the way to the next part of the adventure …

Player rests are always kind of a contentious thing in D&D, especially when their effect is so strong as it is in the 5e rules. For players, it becomes a matter of resource management — I have this many spell slots left. I have this many hit points remaining, and that many hit dice to convert them. That cool ability I have, I can only do once between Long Rests.

The temptation is, when the party’s been taxed and burned their resources, to take that Long Rest and get back up to snuff. Problem is, the rules are clear that you only get one Long Rest per 24 hour period, and it’s possible to burn all your powers well before evening falls.

In this case, after the near-disaster with Bronzefume, the party retreated to the Air Temple to take, yes, a Long Rest. But by my reckoning it was only about 2-3 in the afternoon. They were going to be hours sitting in that little dorm room, waiting to get sleepy enough to start the Long Rest cycle. I was trying, in a soft way, to chastise them for burning time that way.

(The scenario indicates that sleeping in one of the temples is very dangerous, because the Princes and their Prophets can detect their presence and send guards their way. I agree in principle; in reality, though, all the locals in the Air Temple have been killed, and I really don’t want to grind through more play time with parties of Howling Hatred cultists finding them and getting into a fight. Bo-ring. The only useful thing of that sort that I might do is have said parties interrupt their Long Rests so that they felt the need to exit Tyar-Besil altogether, and so deal with the mess out there.)

So I emphasized the “staring at the wallpaper” aspect of camping out, and the players reacted …

… by splitting the party, sending the Druid and the Sorcerer off checking out locales in the Air Temple for clues or treasure.

I could have simply hand-waved it — you find nothing but empty rooms and rubble — but the module is clear about What Lurks in the Shops around the Plaza of Moradin. And I thought it might be some fun lesson-teaching about wandering off in that fashion. (Yes, I am complex in my motivations.)

That the Cloaker almost killed the Druid (and, had I decided not to split attacks to the Sorcerer, too, would have) was just icing on the cake. And it gave the Druid a chance to do his beast form thing, which he almost never does.

Lesson, I expect, learned.

Faithful unto Death

Yes, those air cultists shackled to the pillars on the Air Temple map … are still there. Still starving to death. Still refusing to be released. Still hoping that Yan-C-Bin will teach them to “eat” air. Fanatics.

Rightly or wrongly, the party let them have their way.

Call of the Wild

One fun bit I added in was hinting that there were still Kenku lurking in the northern part of the Air Temple. Not only had the bodies of Aerissi’s troops been stripped of weapons, but we got an echoing chorus of women screaming, trying to scare off the intruders.

I don’t know if the two party members would have checked those voices out on their own, but when they fled the Cloaker, it was full gallop back to the hotel room.

Dreams

So time for another round of dreams. The most noteworthy (from my perspective) were for Faith, the cleric who is now attuned to Windvane. How’s that going for you, Faith?

It feels like you’ve returned home after a long journey out to sea. You sit on a chair, looking out over the city, knowing that it is yours to rule, to conquer, to be loved by.

Your god is coming soon. You can feel it. Everything you’ve longed for, coming to fruition. You will be a queen, and all will want you, but will not be able to have you.

Your holy symbol — all that represents the power of your god. It is with you. You cannot come to harm.

At your feet, Moony is curled up, deep vibrations, inaudible but perceptible, across your feet and ankles.

Silently behind you, around you, Nala protects you, waiting for your command, should any threat arise.

William sits to one side, hand-picked herbs and spices burning in censors at his feet, the smoke rising up about his head, giving him strange visions.

Theren prances about the floor before you, entertaining, creating fireworks, fountains of sharp-smelling liquids. He tries so hard.

Your wings — your beautiful wings, flicker and flap against your back. You are where you belong. Nothing can stop you now.

Yeah, she’s dreaming she’s Aerissi. Heh heh heh.

The Fighter and the Rogue had dreams around the Turtle Dragon. Unpleasant ones.

Theren the Sorcerer started getting instruction from Faith’s patron deity, Deneir, who was having problems reaching his cleric.

William the Druid, who triggered the Last Laugh magic a ten-day ago, had come to the end of his undead protection from the spell.

A man in black — black mask under a black brimmed hat, black cloak over velvet black finery — stands before you, sword drawn. “The Lord of the Stone. I can no longer protect you — you have delayed and procrastinated. Now I will never find him, never have the last laugh. And I blame –” He extends the sword until its tip is nearly pricking your nose. “– you.”

Valklondar, the hunter of the undead (or at least a dream visage of him), was pissed that William never told him where Oreioth is. Ah, well.

Moving On

There had been, last game, a question of where the party was going to go. After everyone trucked up the shops to recover William’s goods (dropped when he shifted into a horse, so that his continual flame item would continue to light up the room), I was half-convinced they were going to head off to the Fire Temple zone, right near where they were.

But, no, they’d all gotten the resolve to go to the “temple” part of the map for the Water Temple, which is where I wanted them to go anyway (so I could justify dinging them up to next level). (Recall that they are working off of incomplete maps drawn from the city map in Aerissi’s throne room.)

Aquatic Troll (Velrock)

They cleverly (if a bit callously) used Ko the Drake Companion to William (who’d take a Ranger level of three) to scout out to see if Bronzefume was still there. Nope. But they did run into the last Aquatic Troll lurking under the last bridge, loudly attacking them in vengeance for Thuluna.

(I loved bellowing “THU-LU-NAAAAAA!” as a grieving, vengeful troll.)

The Rogue did spot the Glyph of Warding (which would have made the battle in the temple a lot more interesting had it gone off).

The battle in the Temple was relatively quick — the party really does outclass Lizardfolk by this point, and the Cleric’s Spirit Guardians remain a buzz-saw of doom. The Hezrou was a bit more of a challenge — the stink/poison effect is delightful, and his resistances were astronomical, so taking him down was a pretty arduous task.

Meanwhile in Roll20 Tweaking

With Roll20 allowing people to put together their own token status sets, I created one myself using things that actually worked for the various conditions and so forth in D&D. I used the free icons at game-icons.net, and they worked out really nicely (with the exception that the PotA‘s Roll20 maps are at half-size, so the status icons come out oversized, old and new, harrumph).

Dave Token Markers 2 — Dave Token Markers

Anyway, the process was easy-peasy, and I was able to name the items for what they were for (e.g., the icon I wanted to use for the Blind condition, an eye with a slash through it, I named “Blind”, which made my Tweak-Status macro a lot more intuitive).

As the DM drums his fingers …

By God, they better finish up this dungeon this next game. The only question will be, will they go down the stairs to the Fane? I will probably do a similar Uncanny Feeling like I did with the Purple Worm — if they can push through it, I may well let them descend, even if they will be outclassed below. More lessons (not too fatal ones, I hope) to be learned.

temple of the crushing wave (post-6) — What the party knew of the Water Temple by the end of the session. Are we there yet?

<< Session 40 | Session 42 >>

Princes of the Apocalypse, Session 40: “Rising Tides, Part 4: Over Your Head”

Wherein our heroes fight some weird creatures — and end up running away from a battle they could not win.

This is part of a series about my DMing Princes of the Apocalypse, a D&D 5e adventure by and copyright Wizards of the Coast.

Table of Contents ● The Party

There will be SPOILERS. If you are playing in a PotA game, please don’t read this. But if you are DMing a PotA game, or are a DM who wants to see what the ride was like … read on!

GM Recap

Session 40 (Day 36)
In the Temple of the Crushing Wave …

The party interrogated Khalt. He confirmed that Gar Shatterkeel was not present, but would return. They threatened him with torturous death (!), until he agreed to take them the temple.
Instead, he took them to a room with a gargoyle fountain … with a door heading north to the domain of the Black Earth … and a pair of Nothics that sucked various memories from Moony, before fleeing, one to the north and one to the south. The latter was dispatched.
Khalt managed to teleport away from Ko’s tether, and away from Nala and Faith, diving into the canal. Faith pursued and, against all odds, took him down by bowshot before he could escape.
The party headed toward the bridge north to the “High Temple” — but entering the marketplace they found the bodies there had been ceremonially arranged, and a pair of Reavers were there, one of whom rang the gong. Though the Reavers were quickly dispatched, the Dragon Turtle, Bronzefume, rising from the lake, was not so easily dealt with. William tried to talk them down, but Bronzefume ended up attacking, nearly killing Faith, Nala, and William, and slaying Ko.
Though they responded with some attacks, it was quickly clear that the Dragon Turtle was a serious challenge. Faith threw down a sleet storm which both slowed Bronzefume and obscured the line of sight between it and them. The party fled, regrouped, and headed back to the Temple of Howling Hatred, fearful of any wide corridor or water channel.
Hunkering down in one of the Air Cult dormitory rooms in the southwest, they resolved to wait out several hours, and then take a Long Rest, before dealing with what to do next:
- Head to the “Forges” (presumed to be the Fire cult area)
- Head back to the Water cult area, to sneak past Bronzefume to the “High Temple” to deal with Gar Shatterkeel.
- Head back to the Water cult area, to sneak around to the “Gates” (the Earth cult area).

Player Recap

Our Clocks Are Steam-Cleaned

Nala questions the captive Khalt. There are threats of fire and laughter as he names off other lead cultists who will avenge him. They are all dead. Shatterkeel is away bargaining with their goddess Olhydra. Eventually the intimidation plays out and Khalt says that Shatterkeel if below in the maelstrom communing with Olhydra. He doesn’t have much other useful information, so they ask him to lead them to the entrance to the down-below.

Moony feels like something is going on in his head. He recalls being in Gemvox’ parlor hearing about the mission that he was sending Moony on. There is a Nothic in the shadows beside him. He has flashes of memories from his home village. Moony also sees a second Nothic to his right. William only sees Moony standing there as another memory flashes — a vision of Aerisi falling to the ground and her wings being stripped away before she disappears.

As the surprise ends, the rest of the group moves into the room. They gang up on the first Nothic (one-eyed wonder-worm). When it is on its last legs it flees the room, entering a corridor to the north descending into darkness. There is an Black Earth cult symbol on the wall.

Ko tries to pull Khalt into the room. The rope breaks and Khalt appears down the hall. Faith and Nala pursue Khalt and a second Nothic appears. Moony takes a shot at Khalt with aid from Ko. Khalt teleports away and dives into the canal. Faith chases after Khalt but doesn’t see him. Nala and Moony finish off the second Nothic. Faith casts a light spell on a pebble and throws it 60 feet down the canal. She just sees Khalt 30 feet up stream from the bridge. She takes an Inspired shot and manages to do enough damage against Khalt to kill him. Faith returns to the group with a big grin. The courtyard of the Gargoyle Fountain is a mess. The walls are crumbling and there are bones and Nothic waste all around. The group decides to take a Short Rest before heading to the High Temple.

In the large room that leads to the High Temple, there are a couple of Reavers preparing the bodies of the dead. A battle ensues and they are taken out, but not before they ring the gong. The water ripples and parts as a gigantic Dragon Turtle rises up from the lake. Everyone holds their actions while William tries to reason with the creature. He assumes that she is a captive like the Djinn in the Air Temple. Alas, she is a young and eager convert to the cult of the Crushing Wave. With a sad eye she exhales a huge cone of super heated steam. It seriously damages most of the party and takes out Ko. When it becomes clear that the party is out-classed, Faith casts Sleet Storm to hide their retreat and slow the dragon.

After a mad dash through the halls of the water temple and into the air temple, the group holes up in one of the rooms in the air temple. They spend the rest of the day taking stock of the situation and planning for the assault on the temple. Nothing disturbs them that night except their dreams.

Game Notes

Tick-tock

So the Water Temple took longer than expected. There are ways I could have short-circuited that here — neither the Nothics nor Bronzefume were essential. But both were fun and different, and, honestly, I wasn’t working on a deadline here. If the players were enjoying themselves (and I was, too), then what’s the harm.

Which comparing the overall length of this campaign, vs. other reports of PotA play, is clearly the case. We took longer. But (I sure hope) we had fun.

“There Is A Hole In Your Mind”

The Nothics were just plain creepy.

Everything the players had encountered to this point was (a) evil people, (b) elemental forces, or (c) standard monsters.

Aberrations? Things that do necrotic damage? Things that suck your memories out?

Creepy.

Though, to my mind, also kind of pathetic. They were just sort of hiding out in their corner there, maybe picking off the occasional cultist, certainly stealing some memories, but for the most part willing to live and let live.

The players didn’t quite see it that way.

I did have fun calling up memories for Moony to remember and the Nothics to abscond with.

The Dragon Turtle

The party knew there was a dragon around — the Dragonbone Sword told them. And I’m sure they were expecting something that would give them a challenge.

They were not ready for Bronzefume the Dragon Turtle.

To be fair, Bronzefume was a case of everything going completely wrong for the party. By coming in from the east side of the marketplace, and without any particular stealth, the party alerted the pair of Reavers random-encountered there (the last two in the complex, in fact, who had been arranging the bodies of their dead comrades on the tables for some ceremonial purpose). And the one down on the west side, near the gong, rolled top score for initiative. And was far enough away that nobody could do anything about it.

And then, even though the party quickly dispatched the Reavers so that they weren’t fighting when Bronzefume showed up two rounds later, William quite rationally chose the “Hey, we’re not with them, we’re on your side” tactic that was perfect for Ahtayir the Djinn in the Air Temple … but very not so much for Bronzefume the Loyal Young Cultist in the Water Temple.

And even though the party had kind of spread out in the market, that didn’t help against the the sixty-foot cone from the Dragon Turtle; nor did the Dodge that everyone was using (the Steam Breath is a CONstitution save, not like Red Dragon’s Fire Breath). The damage roll was just above average, and nearly killed three players.

On the other hand, the party did quickly react to GTFO, and Faith’s Sleet Storm kept Bronzefume from targeting them further (and slowed it down substantially, given its land speed is so low already). It was a second top moment for the Cleric that night.

The Bronzefume encounter may have been the first time the party actually realized they were not going to be able to win a battle. It would be interesting to see how that affected their future actions.

The Stubbornness of the Stubborn Player

The top moment for the Cleric that night was when Khalt, the One-Eyed Shiver they had taken prisoner, chose the Nothic battle as a chance to escape. Misty Step is a wicked spell — verbal-only and a Bonus Action. So he could use it and Dash. Khalt, manacled, also got some great Athletics rolls while in the canal, swimming away.

Faith wouldn’t let go. She couldn’t see him in the shadows of the canal, so she cast light on a rock and threw it in that direction, barely illuminating Khalt, who was just about to get out of the water and make good his escape to the temple. She pulled out her bow, which I told her because of the dim light and distance would be at Disadvantage — so she burned her Inspiration … hit … and then rolled a 2 on the damage (groans) … which happened to be how many HP he had left. And another corpse floats down the canal …

I gave her an Inspiration back. It was remarkably played and my expectations about how it would end were thwarted by the player/character’s persistence.

What next?

The players were split at the end — some wanted to finish clearing the Water Temple (aside from the Dragon Turtle in the lake, of course), thinking they need to get to the “High Temple” therein to advance (my preference). Others wanted to progress to the Black Earth quarter. Some were daunted by how the throne room map showed damage and depressing color commentary in that zone, and want instead to go to the Forges, the Eternal Flame quarter (which would be a bit of a level mess, as it’s designed for level 9).

On the one hand, it’s always cool when the players have different ideas about where to go next. It’s a sign I’m not railroading them (too much). On the other hand, it did mean additional prep on my part in case they did go hallooing off in an unexpected direction.

temple of the crushing wave (post-5) — What the party had explored by the end of this session.

Leveling was the other thing I needed to consider here. As noted before, the milestone of defeating the Temple of the Crushing Wave was level-up from 7 to 8. But had they defeated it? With Gar fled and Thuluna and Morbeoth both slain, theoretically, yes — the cult here would not recover (unless Gar succeeded in his quesrt). On the other hand, with the “High Temple” untaken, I’d been reluctant to award the win.

The fact was, unless they went messing around in the Starry Lake, by the time they got back to the Marketplace in 16 hours (it was still around Noon, but they were planning on camping out and Long Resting in their little hidey-hole) Bronzefume would be back at the bottom, watching his (substantial) treasure. They should go back and finish things up. But if they didn’t, wouild I count that as a milestone missed and no level-up? How far would they continue at that handicap?

Bah. If they decided to skip stuff, I’d give them the reward — they had effectively earned it. But not until they made that decision and acted on it — if I could get them to the “High Temple,” that would add some good story moments.

Some Roll20 Moments

As previously noted, I was running this game within the Roll20 VTT which, for the most part, was performing like a champ (and making it much easier for us all to gather together on Friday nights.

Dynamic Lighting in Roll20 is cool. The Marketplace, in particular, was nicely illumined … and when Bronzefume appeared at the far end, just his edge was visible in the dim light (and even that went away when William politely got rid of his Bonfire). Everything was perfectly visible to me as the DM, but it looked nicely creepy over on my wife’s computer screen.

I asked the players to take care of their own token markers this game, and they actually did a pretty good job of it. I further updated my Status-Tweak macro to include Helping and Dodging, both of which were useful.

The only real Roll20 problem, in fact, was that, because the scaling on the provided Roll20 PotA maps was at 50%, the status markers were oversized, obscuring much of the tokens. Mutter-mutter WotC.

I’d learned the technique at this point, for time and ease’s sake, to mass-transporting people along (cluster them together, select their tokens, move them in unison through the map, stopping at key junctions so that they players can see) when going through already-known terrain. It’s just much more efficient than asking people to move their tokens along when it doesn’t matter, and which inevitably leads to someone who is distracted or looking something up finding themselves left behind.

The problem is that it also leads to a predictable outcome. When they were getting back to the Marketplace, I set them down at the Bridge of Victory and asked which way they wanted to approach — through the Court of the Merfolk from the south, through the Bugbear Quarters, or through the ruined area to the east. (Their choice of the latter, “because bad things always happen when we go through the Court of the Merfolk,” turned out to be a tactical error.)

But later I heard the comment, “We should have known something was up, because that’s when Dave puts us down and asks us what we’re doing.” D’oh!

<< Session 38 | Session 40 >>

D&D 5e/5.5e Rules – Spells: Thunderwave! (and other cubical-AoE range-Self spells)

Wherein we handwave about a fine spell, and instead talk about Range Self Cubic AoE spells.

Part of an ongoing series of 5e (2014) Rules notes. See the end of the post for notes on 5.5e (2024) rules.

So Thunderwave (PHB 282-83) is a pretty cool spell, and usually ends up in a lot of parties’ repertoire (also in the repertoire of a lot of enemy parties). It does decent damage, an AoE, a push, and the CONstitution Save it carries makes it most useful against spellcasters. It does make a godawful racket (carrying 300 feet away, which any DM should take advantage of), but it also scales damage by spell slot.

Overall, a nifty spell. But we’re not going to talk about any of that.

Thunderwave and its Area of Effect

This came up in a game, so afterwards I did some looking into the odd Area of Effect world that is Cubes and Thunderwave.

(There’s a lot about 5e that I respect, but their AoE stuff is kind of janky in general and then the fit onto a grid map — which 5e really sort of dislikes on principle but cannot ignore because a lot of tables really love it, like ours — is even more janky.)

Thunderwave has Range: Self (15-foot cube). “A wave of thunderous force sweeps out from you. Each creature in a 15-foot cube originating from you …” blah blah effects.

So, what does that mean? How does the cube relate to the caster? You would think a Cube AoE would be easy. Yet some of the writing on it approaches being Talmudic in its intricacies to figure out what RAW means here. This is my current interpretation:

Putting together the Self and the Cube AoE

Range of Self

AoE spells that have a range of Self have a point of origin starting from the caster (PHB 202).

Cube AoE

Here’s the PHB 204 on Cube AoE (emphasis mine):

You select a cube’s point of origin, which lies anywhere on a face of the cubic effect. The cube’s size is expressed as the length of each side.

A cube’s point of origin is not included in the cube’s area of effect, unless you decide otherwise.

AoE and Grid Maps

DMG 251 notes the following on “Areas of Effect” in relation to grid maps:

The area of effect of a spell, monster ability, or other feature must be translated onto squares or hexes to determine which potential targets are in the area and which aren’t. Choose an intersection of squares or hexes as the point of origin of an area of effect, then follow its rules as normal.

And Xanathar’s echoes this, speaking of “Area of Effect on a Grid”:

Choose an intersection of squares as the point of origin of an area of effect, then follow the rules for that kind of area as normal (see the “Areas of Effect” section in chapter 10 of the Player’s Handbook).

This is one that drives me bats as DM, because everyone wants their spell to be centered in in the center of a square (in origin, in target, in range calculations), and the rule are very clear that is not the case: for where spells start from, land (if not targeting a creature), and calculating the range, it’s all about intersections.

(If you look at how Cover works on a grid, too, it’s much the same thing.)

Put it all together …

So, standing in a 5×5 grid square, any of the four corners of the square / intersections of the grid are at a range of “self” and are corners that could be the face of the cube you are going to create (including a cube that you are part of, if you are touching the outside face from the inside). Here then would be the possible arrangements I can see:

Any of the above can be rotated in increments of 90 degrees.

I.e., you can be on any of the squares outside of the cube, or on the inner squares of the cube, wherever one of the corners of your square touches (red blips) part of the perimeter (side) of the cube. But not in the very center, because you can’t reach that outer face from there.

I’ve not seen anyone actually include the bottom left “corner” example, but it seems to fit the rules to my eyes.

Insider Casting

There is some debate as whether being on the inside of the cube (bottom right-hand two examples) is allowed. I don’t read anything in the above, though, that says it isn’t. That might mean including yourself in the spell effect (but hold that thought for a moment).

Note that though you can be within the cube, for the Thunderwave spell, “the thunderous force sweeps out from you,” so you yourself are not affected when you cast it, even if you are in the area. (Which is a fancier way of saying that you, as the point of origin, are not affected by spells that have a point of origin; a point is not dimensionless, in this case.)

(But Dave, you might be saying, if the point of origin is the grid intersection you are casting from, then doesn’t the thunderous force emanate from that and, if you are inside the AoE, affect you, too? To which I say (1) remember how I said some of this stuff gets Talmudic? and (2) go away, boy, you bother me.)

When would you use a case, of being inside (not the center!) of the cube? Two use cases I can think of:

To reduce the effective effective range to 10 feet rather than 15 feet (potentially important in an indoor combat).
To include a tiny opponent in your own square (an edge case, but a potentially helpful one).

To sum up

So, unless anyone has any objections, that’s how I consider the area for Thunderwave to work.

So what about with 5.5e?

I’m still trying to figure that out.

Remember that in 5e (2014), grid-based combat is an optional rule. The default is Theater of the Mind, where the DM gets to be constantly juggling where everything and everyone is in order to convey it to the players so that they have some idea of what’s going on …

Sorry. Betraying my wargaming prejudices here.

Grid-based tactical maps are referenced in the 5.5e (2024) PHB, but, in more detail, in the 5.5e DMG, p. 44. These largely parallel the 5e rules (along with the confusing “well, here’s what you can do with these things, but you don’t have to, you can just use rulers and pipe cleaners and sticky notes,” but I digress).

The key here is that under “Areas of Effect,” the DMG rules say:

If the area has a point of origin, choose an intersection of squares or hexes to be the point of origin, then follow its rules as normal.

As well as:

If an area of effect covers at least half a square or hex, the entire square or hex is affected.

This is basically the same as the 5e rules. Whether a line, a cube, a sphere, or a cone, everything anchors off a grid intersection.

Except …

Emanations are weird. In 5e, these were basically “range = Self” radiused AoEs, but it was still easy enough to say, “Well, sure, choose one of the four intersections [assuming a square grid] around your character and anchor the effect there.

But while 5.5e has “range = Self” rules, a lot of those lean on Emanations, which make corner-based AoEs a bit harder to swallow:

An Emanation is an area of effect that extends in straight lines from a creature or an object in all directions. The effect that creates an Emanation specifies the distance it extends. […]

An Emanation’s origin (creature or object) isn’t included in the area of effect unless its creator decides otherwise.

That really sounds like they want an Emanation AoE to center on the focal square, not on an intersection next to it. Given the AoE definition above, that sounds incorrect, but it’s still an uncomfortable definition.

That said, I’d still require an Emanation to hook off of one of the target’s adjoining intersections, and treat it different from a sphere AoE, etc., by being mobile with the creature or object it emanates from. That keeps things consistent, if marginally janky.

But what about Thunderwave?

Well, what about it?

Oh, as a spell? It’s written up pretty much the same as the 5e version.

D&D 5e/5.5e Rules – Spells: Spike Growth!

A diabolical spell that can not only manage crowds at low levels, but actually eliminate them.

Know the Rules Part of an ongoing series of 5e (2014) Rules notes. See the end of the post for notes on 5.5e (2024) rules.

It’s the damaging, crowd-controlling, Area of Effect spell that keeps on giving. You thought Entanglement was a pain in the ass? Try something (if you are a Druid or Ranger) that doesn’t prevent the target from moving, just slows them down and damages them when they try to move: Spike Growth!

So what does it say?

The ground in a 20-foot radius centered on a point within range twists and sprouts hard spikes and thorns. The area becomes difficult terrain for the duration. When a creature moves into or within the area, it takes 2d4 piercing damage for every 5 feet it travels.

So we really have two effects here over the Concentration / 10 minutes of the spell:

The area of the spell is Difficult Terrain.
The area of the spell causes 2d4 piercing damage per 5 feet travelled.

This 2nd level spell would be somewhat effective at crowd control if all it did was slow the bad guys down. Causing 2d4 damage for every 5 feet (one square on a normal grid) traveled is murderous at early levels. A figure with a 30-foot move will be slowed to 15 feet (Difficult terrain), and take 6d4 (6-24) points of damage, with no AC or Save to mitigate it, each turn. And that applies to everyone within the spell area.

No, honestly, I have seem very large early mobs gutted by a well-positioned use of this spell.

This spell is particularly deadly because, while most “this area causes you damage” spells affect someone once per turn (e.g., Moonbeam), Spike Growth will mess them up for every square they move through. Plus, there’s no save.

Plus, it’s Sneaky

The spell notes:

The transformation of the ground is camouflaged to look natural. Any creature that can’t see the area at the time the spell is cast must make a Wisdom (Perception) check against your spell save DC to recognize the terrain as hazardous before entering it.

So you can set it as a trap for pursuers. If they don’t see it cast, they require a save to spot it before they blunder in.

Pushing In

There are a variety of ways of pushing or dragging folk into a Spike Growth spell area, from a Shove attack to Thorn Whip to Thunderwave to Thunderous Smite. It’s not always clear with these effects whether a target is dragged at ground level (in which case they would take damage each square of Spike Growth they were moved through) or somehow hurled through the air (in which case only the target square would cause damage).

The DM will have adjudicate based on the specific spell / effect and the circumstances it occurs in, to see how much damage the target takes.

Getting Out

The old saying of “Getting out means going through” is a losing proposition with Spike Growth. Going through means taking more damage.

Tactics for those caught in the spell:

Wait it out. Yeah, that’s not likely over 10 minutes, but one of your comrades might disrupt the Concentration of the caster.
Remove Yourself (Usually Vertically). A long jump away, a high jump to grab something above, or, of course, some sort of teleport or flight can get you out of the area.
Enjoy the melee cover. If you are a spellcaster or ranged weapon person, being stuck in Spike Growth isn’t nearly as problematic. Stand there and ranged-attack your opponents (maybe particularly the caster), knowing that the opposition melee fighters will likely not be charging you.

Limits of Growth

Spike Growth does not scale. Even with no save, at some point in the leveling/CR equation, 2d4 damage per square does not daunt in quite the same way.

Sure, it creates Difficult Terrain (always a good thing), and 2d4 over enough squares starts to add up, but a 15th Level character will be a lot less worried over it (or have ways around it) than a 2nd Level character.

But it’s good while it lasts.

Any changes to this spell in 5.5e?

There are only minor changes to this spell in 5.5e (2024).

The basics of the spell, while edited for 5.5e jargon, are the same:

The ground in a 20-foot-radius Sphere centered on a point within range sprouts hard spikes and thorns. The area becomes Difficult Terrain for the duration. When a creature moves into or within the area, it takes 2d4 Piercing damage for every 5 feet it travels.

The only difference is in the camouflage aspect:

The transformation of the ground is camouflaged to look natural. Any creature that can’t see the area when the spell is cast must take a Search action and succeed on a Wisdom (Perception or Survival) check against your spell save DC to recognize the terrain as hazardous before entering it.

This is a lot more harsh. First, taking the Search action is specifically called out (no Passive Perception pertains). On the other hand, Survival is also allowed as an optional Ability Check … but, still, unless you are expecting someone to put down Spike Growth, who would ever dream of taking your Action to Search for it?

Surprise

Walking Pace

Hiding = Invisibility

Rolling Initiative

Attacks from Hiding

Net-Net

Would you like to know more?

What if I want to break a door?

What if the door is locked?

Secret Doors!

Weapon Mastery!

Weapon Mastery?

What Is Weapon Mastery?

How Do I Get Weapon Mastery?

Pros and Cons

Everyone hates Encumbrance rules

So how about the rules?

A bit of science (maybe)

Okay, how does this change in 5.5e?

Would you like to know more?

Weapon jugging in 5.5e

Wands and 5.5e

When Does Surprise Happen?

So what happens when the parties meet?

How Does Surprise Get Determined?

Characters Surprising Monsters

Monsters Surprising Characters

What Happens When Someone Is Surprised?

Would you like to know more?

Surprise in 5.5e (2024)

Some questions

Can I use 5e characters in a 5.5e campaign?

What if I am bringing over from 5e, or using from 5e, a class or subclass that 5.5e doesn’t support yet?

What if I have a 5e character of a race (species) that hasn’t been written up for 5.5e yet?

Can I use a 5e scenario / module in 5.5e?

What about VTT issues?

Net-net

A Caveat

Surprise in 2024e

Inspiration in 2024e

Just call it a new edition, fergoshsakes

GM Recap

Player Recap

Landshark

Game Notes

Filling out the Red Larch dance card

Dreams!

The Sidekick

The Slow Road Back to the Action

Meta Mapping Issues and Roll20

Extended problem-solving

Bits and Bobs

Components

Verbal (V)

Somatic (S)

Material (M)

Keeping Focus

Consumables

But that’s no fun!

Any differences here in 5.5e?

The General Rule

What about in 5.5e (2024)?

If you’re concentrating on a spell, do you need to maintain line of sight with the spell’s target or the spell’s effect?

GM Recap

Player Recap

Emptying the Bag of Holding

Game Notes

At the Cross-Roads

Sic transit Womford

Who’s next?

Haste Makes Wasteland

Dreams

Careless Whispers

So, is an AoE “attack” an actual attack?

Does any of this change in 5.5e?

GM Recap

Player Recap

Another Day, Another Demon

Game Notes

What to do, what to do?